The Instigator
IsaiahWOod23
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
DwarvinStorm
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

I argue that God is Perfect, Also has a right to kill all of mankind

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/30/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 699 times Debate No: 119243
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (11)
Votes (0)

 

IsaiahWOod23

Pro

I believe that God has the right to do what he wishes, With out defying his character. In revelation, It talks about how God will destroy the earth and engulf it with fire. Also because human nature is sinful, And Gods standard is perfect (being a perfect God) gives him a right to judge. I i was guilty of murder, I would be guilty before the judge. God says that whoever is angry has committed murder. Matthew 5:21-23
https://www. Biblegateway. Com/passage/? Search=Matthew+5%3A21-23&version=NET Another thing I have never heard of God making a mistake, Which is why I believe he is perfect thankyou.
I also would like to say to my opponent, I give you full respect, And thank you.
DwarvinStorm

Con

Isaiah Wood, I accept your challenge. I believe that if an Abrahamic God by which you set the standards to does not have the right to rage against mankind. Yahweh as portrayed in the Bible is cruel, But I believe that a being in his position does not have the right to make these contradictions. For if he is to prophesy truth and mercy, He must also abide by them. Why you may ask? Because if the person making the law is above it, And values it not then it is useless to make.

As this well compiled source states, (http://www. Skepticsannotatedbible. Com/cruelty/long. Html) The number of cruelties under God is tremendous and in the thousands. I beg a simple question, If God is so wrathful why must he be preaching of love and tolerance? Ezekiel 18:24-26 say that he will kill you for a single mistake. So, Once again he preaches intolerance while being intolerant.

I am ready for your challenge. Thank you and I wish to respect you and your regards. Thank you as well!
Debate Round No. 1
IsaiahWOod23

Pro

Thank you. I believe that God has many attributes, Not only Wrath against mankind, But love. That said, I believe that all people deserve eternal punishment, And because of this he has the right to kill the wicked.
There is a trend in society that God is love and peace, But equally as so, He is wrathful and vile against the wicked. Most people in the world are not true Christians, So God is sending most people to hell anyways.
Also God is prophesying truth and mercy, But he also prophecies wrath against the ungodly(most of the world) look at 2 Peter 3:7.
Yet (ezekiel 33:11) God does not enjoy/take pleasure in the punishment of the wicked, But he must because he is a just God. This is why God has the right, And he will at one point.
God is not an either or, He is both, Which is why he has the right to destroy the earth.
God is also perfect, There has not been a single record in the bible of a imperfection God did.
romand 8:28
Thankyou
DwarvinStorm

Con

The problem here is that God is Omni in the bible. Omniscient (Psalm 147:4-5), Omnipotent (Job 37:23 which also states that he does not oppress. ) and Omnibenevolent (Psalm 100:5; Psalm 145:17; John 3:16). But, He cannot be all loving if he hates and destroys his own creation. Neither can eternal punishment be right for finite actions. And, Did not Jesus forgive our sins? (Unless Jeremiah 31:30, Deuteronomy 24:16 or 2 Chronicles 25:4 are to be believed. )

But after killing many, Amaziah did "What was right in the sight of the lord. " He took pleasure in their deaths. Isaac of Abraham in Genesis 26 also had many slaves which God endorsed. Thus meaning God endorses slavery (Joshua 9:23-27, Exodus 20:17 Deuteronomy 15:12)

God cannot condemn anger if his is angry. That makes him imperfect, And thus by your definition not God. There are many records of his anger and imperfection. In fact, Being impersonated by satan during my aforementioned Census. Thank you for your time.
Debate Round No. 2
IsaiahWOod23

Pro

You said "He cannot be all loving if he hates and destroys his own creation"
The problem is that he can because he can love and hate his creation. He is not limited with one emotion, He can have many
Plus what is wrong with God hating his own creation, When it is wicked. He gave them free will and they took advantage of him (Romans 3:10)
Also God hates the wicked not the righteous( psalm 11:5)
God is just by hating the wicked, He doesn't hate them because of there "goodness" because of there murder and deceit.
Also God loves good, You can't call him unloving because he hates bad.
Another thing, Gods anger is perfect, And is only angry at what is evil, Our anger is imperfect, We can't use human standards with God who created the universe. (Psalm 7:11)
Our finite actions have a eternal consequence, Because Gods standard is infinite and he is infinite, That is why Its right for him to send to hell. Weather out sin is finite doesn't change Gods eternal standars
Thankyou!
DwarvinStorm

Con

Here is the problem though, You did not address that he is all loving, All powerful and all knowing. On that alone, I win. Also, If God wanted to give mankind free will why was it a sin to partake of the Fruit? And why must we be judged on God's infinite standard being finite? It is wrong. How can man be judged as a "sinner" if they can be forgiven? Forgot to address my verse on God not tolerating a single mistake.

Also, Examples of God's contradictions. If these are to be believed, He is not eternally consistent thus no argument for you. Yes or No sacrifice? (Genesis 4:2-4 and Psalm 60:4 ex http://www. Skepticsannotatedbible. Com/contra/desire. Html)
Yes or No Mercy on Righteous? (Ecclesiastes 7:14 vs Genesis 6:9 Saying Moses is perfect, But Jesus was the only perfect one no? Http://www. Skepticsannotatedbible. Com/contra/just. Html)
Yes or No Marrying Unbelievers (1st Corinthians 7:12-12 vs 2nd Corinthians 6:14)
The Bible is flawed, Thus a God by it's standards is not perfect.
Debate Round No. 3
IsaiahWOod23

Pro

On the topic of actions Let's say that I lied, When is that lie no longer a lie? It always is a lie for the face of eternity, And God who made all things is eternal. People will always be conscious, Whether in heaven or hell. What happens is that it has a enernal effect, That lie will always be a lie, No matter what you do. Actions are not finite if your existence is infinite, .
Free will is the freedom to choose. God putting the tree in the garden was giving man a choice, Sin of no sin. Because God gave you the choice to sin does not mean it was wrong. What would be is If God made us sin, But the bible goes against that. James 1:13
The marriage thing is for a unbeliever who believed, While having a unbelieving wife.
The verses (Ecclesiastes 7:14 vs Genesis 6:9) were talking about noah, Who was not perfect genesis 9:21.
And about sacrifice, God commanded sacrifice in the old testament so it shows our need for forgiveness. Jesus was the final sacrifice
DwarvinStorm

Con

Let's be honest here, I can quote scripture back and forth with you. But let's focus on the fundamental argument. God's Perfection. I say it is not true, One because the Bible is so widely interpreted for one reason. Also, Once again unaddressed is the point of his Omnibenevolence, Not perfect love. Omnipotent, Not a lot of power. Omniscient, Not wise. He must exhume all of these traits to the literal maximum. He cannot be Omnibenevolent if he hates in ANY respect.

Another important factor, Is just the fact that he has the right to kill mankind. This is the 2nd part of your inquiry. He makes the law right? He is held by no higher standard. Nothing stops him from breaking his own standards, Because in his Omnipresence he is present in sin. He made sin, Even if he sins not now he made and dwells with it. Just by that fact his own creation corrupted himself.

Justice cannot be had without checks and balances, He cannot be beyond the law. He has no right, Imperfect.
Debate Round No. 4
IsaiahWOod23

Pro

You said the bible is so widely interpreted. The fundamentals of the bible are not God is Good and Perfect. Here is another thing, Because God lets us choose are own downfall by sinning does not make him sinful. If I let a someone screw his life does not make me responsible for his action, Its the same thing with God. God did not make sin, You have to accept that. He allowed it to dwell. Sin came from man, Us eating from the fruit.
You also said"Omnibenevolent if he hates in ANY respect. " That's just simply not true.
So if (big if! ) God hate the sin of man and the sinner, He isn't Good? You are forgetting God is just. It would be evil if God DIDN'T hate evil. Neither does he tolerate it, He sends people (non christian) to hell if they don't. Hate is not bad if it is toward evil.
You tell me ONE sin God commit and I would believe you.
Gods creation can't corrupt himself because he created it. He has all power over it. A craftsman has all power over his craft. Your logic is off thanku
DwarvinStorm

Con

DwarvinStorm forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by IsaiahWOod23 3 years ago
IsaiahWOod23
Ok, I am up for options, I am fifteen so my realm of topics is limited.
Posted by DwarvinStorm 3 years ago
DwarvinStorm
Actually, I feel like at least for this topic I have really presented all of the important arguments. And any further discussion would be petty. However, If you would like to debate on a separate topic I would be happy to do so!
Posted by IsaiahWOod23 3 years ago
IsaiahWOod23
Thank You for providing your argument, I you would like to continue then debate me again.
I do want to to one thing, We are Gods creation, He does what he pleases. Who are we to ask God of hs rights, Thats not an offense but a fact. Read romans nine, It defines the argument a lot.

you confused me when you said"And finally, God's standards cannot be perfect if he condemned sin himself. " what do you mean, God is good, And sin is bad, Because God condemns sin make him immoral, That confuses me.
Why is God commanding sacrifice with his own creation, Does a potter not have the right to break his own pots. There is a reason why Jews sacrificed to God, To show there own sin. Pretty much to make this point, The wages of sin is death
actually now that I think about it, I would like to debate you again, I have much more to say, I bet you do to.
Posted by DwarvinStorm 3 years ago
DwarvinStorm
This debate was very limited, I was given little time to formulate my argument. So, I will use this comment to formulate my last post. The basic arguments here is that we both quoted the bible many times, So the argument based on that text is not the issue here. It is of basic Theistic morality.

In what lense does God have the right to kill us? His own? And, If he has the right then what is the purpose of his all loving nature? It is nothing. My omnibenevolence argument was only towards the fact that he is not perfect, Not that he sinned. There is a difference.

Reasons I win, Opponent did not answer Omni arguments sufficiently.
Morality has been proven by me to not be broken and made by God.
Opponent was begging the question of me finding ANY sin in God while I listed a site with thousands of examples AND cited many more in argument and disregarded many of them. Basically saying that God Commanded sacrifice which is against verse Psalm 60:40

And finally, God's standards cannot be perfect if he condemned sin himself. Such as my unanswered slavery argument. He makes standards that are immoral. Therefore, I win. Thank you for this round and good luck in future debates!
Posted by IsaiahWOod23 3 years ago
IsaiahWOod23
How so?
Posted by missmedic 3 years ago
missmedic
Isaiah is a cherry picken Christian.
Posted by missmedic 3 years ago
missmedic
Christian's either don't read what you post or they don't understand what they read.
Posted by IsaiahWOod23 3 years ago
IsaiahWOod23
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, But the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Posted by IsaiahWOod23 3 years ago
IsaiahWOod23
yes to all the answers, Who am I to say" I sinned against you God, And I rejected your Jesus death (for the unbeliever) but I don't deserve death because its unjust". YOU FOOL. The problem with people it that they take sin lightly, The death the bible is talking about is not only the death on this earth(although it is too) but the eternal death. Jesus got slaughtered on a cross for YOU backwardseden. To question his authority if he has a right to kill for rejection of his son(that is what sin is) and rebellion against his authority(that is what sin is) and adultery against your wife(cheating is a sin) and homo sexuality( a sin that is not only unnatural but rejects Gods system of marriage) and not worshiping him( he is the creator of the cosmos, Rejecting his eternal right and holiness is a sin) yes 100 percent. All of there have eternal consequences( as i argued in the debate).

Although your missing something entirely.
How many people do you know that God has killed for adultery, Or sin against parents, Or homosexuality.
God in his sovereignty gives mercy to the gays, And those who go against his word. If God wanted to he could kill every homosexual on the planet if he wanted to. Read through all the old testament, Solomon followed the 10 commandments, And was one of the wisest and successful person (with his nation) on the planet. So HOW DARE YOU CONDEMN GOD FOR HIS "INJUSTICE".
You completely forgot about his mercy. SO repent God bless:)
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
All of these questions require, Absolutely require a "no" answer if you are to fit in with humanity. It is the reason why the god of the bible is spit. Thankfully, Rightly and justly this country was not founded on the god of the bible. If so, This country's population would be 3/4's less from what it is now.

According to your god you should be put to death if you blaspheme. Do you think that's a good idea? Y____? N____? Leviticus 24:16, According to your god you should be put to death if you work on the sabbath. Do you think that's a good idea? Y____? N____? Exodus 31:14, And Numbers 15: 32-36, According to your god you should be put to death if you curse at your parents. Do you think that's a good idea? Y____? N____? Exodus 21:17, Leviticus 20:9, Mark 7:10, Matthew 15:4, According to your god you should be put to death if you commit adultery. Do you think that's a good idea? Y____? N____? Leviticus 20:10. That's directly from your 10 commandments. Here are some other things that YOUR god thinks you should be put to death for. . . According to your god you should be put to death if you are a homosexual? Do you think that's a good idea? Y___? N____? Leviticus 20:13, According to your god you should be put to death if you do not worship him. Do you think that's a good idea? Y____? N____? Deuteronomy 13: 9-10 and Deuteronomy 17: 2-5.
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