The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
The Contender
Kikinova8
Con (against)

I do not believe in god therefore I have free will

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Debate Round Forfeited
Kikinova8 has forfeited round #2.
Our system has not yet updated this debate. Please check back in a few minutes for more options.
Time Remaining
00days00hours00minutes00seconds
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/4/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 657 times Debate No: 103399
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (25)
Votes (0)

 

backwardseden

Pro

There is nothing in the bible that states, in fact its not even close to saying something like "I the lord thy god grants man free will." Since this is true, man does not have free will IF you are lamebrained enough to believe in god.

It will be con's job to absolutely prove that god grants man free will.

No forfeits!

Nobody with a lackluster edumacation trying to pretend that they have an intelligence and an education will be accepted!!!

So dig through those files of yours and dig hard, because I have plenty switchblade files of mine to utterly prove that god, and through other sources, does NOT grant man free will and therefore you do not have any Free Will as your destiny is predetermined IF you are scooter wrecked enough to believe in god.


I on the other hand am intelligent enough to pull weeds and not believe in god, therefore I have Free Will. Its that simple.
Kikinova8

Con

What kind of world do you live in? Running around saying things that may hurt certain cultures! See, i'm no expert, considering I personally do not believe in god, but still! How can you be so hurtful to other cultures, and not care about people who devote their lives to Christianity. I'm guessing you were baptised right? Well the priest that ever-so-kindly put that holy water on your head devoted years of practice and patience to learning the will of god. You only have free-will if you want it, god doesn't hold anyone down for ransom. Free will is your own decision, not gods. You can chose to believe or not believe, just don't hurt anyone in the process.
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

If I knew I would be carrying the baby for Hitler and I knew beforehand that he would be unleashing his ultimate destructive powers, wouldn't I be responsible for him? Absolutely I would. So naturally I would not have him. So god in being omnipotent IS responsible for Free Will.

There’s no Free Will if you believe in god and sorry that’s not open for debate because it’s an unshakable losing argument if you think there is. Its not even a close call. In the old testament you didn't have choice/ Free Will. What do you think the 10 commandments were? The great flood? The 10 plagues? etc etc etc Those were god's hard laws in which he made you obey them by the absolute strictest of terms which if not obeyed were punishable by death. So god is forcing his will on you and you do not have a choice/ Free Will, that is unless you want to die. That is NOT Free Will by any means. Threatening people with death is NOT Free Will (more on that later. So indeed, the new testament is a load of lard and so is christ as the messiah. The jews have it right. christianity is indeed false. The new testament is false. christ is false. Do you really think that since god is not going to allow you to have a choice/ Free Will in the old testament that he is simply going to POOF change his stupid idiotic mind and suddenly give you choice in the non-existent book in the new testament? Well, if you think so, then you need to get out more often. No offense! Yeah right, like god is going to grant you or anyone choice/ Free Will of any kind and have someone like you or anyone screw up by taking away his control that he has over you and everyone else? What's the point in being god if he does not have that control - to keep you on his leash and keep you as his puppet and robot? god also supposedly oversees everything - correct? So how is it that he is ---not--- going to oversee your Free Will and thus limit it? And what happens if things go terribly wrong? Are you insane? There's no way god is - ever - going to grant you or anyone choice/ Free Will. It simply does not, nor can not - ever - exist. Period.
Here’s a clincher that will cause you to grit your teeth… If god is omnipotent, and he knows the future, then god himself does not have Free Will. So how can you or man?

Tracie Harris: "Your question was regarding free will as an argument for allowing suffering. That's when you get into the problem of evil. Now the problem of evil as we all know is not an argument that demonstrates that no god exists or that god exists. What it demonstrates is that god is your god is an a$$eth. What she's telling you is she believes in a god, and I assume she worships this god? Its like is she 'happy' about her god?" Caller: "Oh oh yeah everything except for the old testament." Tracie "In other words what she is saying is 'I love this god who believes that the free will of the rapist is more important than the free will of the child being raped. That I think that its worth it to have a child be raped because I really really put a high value on a rapist's free will.’"

When she dies does she get to go to heaven? If she gets to go to heaven will she be happy? And she’ll probably say “yes”. And you say “Will you be able to choose and do anything you want while you are in heaven?” And she’ll say “yes.” And so you are basically saying “you’ll have free will in heaven?” So you have free will in heaven and no one is being hurt, raped, so you can do anything you want and no one gets hurt. If god has that power in heaven, he must have that power on earth. So he’s chose not to set that condition/ toggle switch which means he’s a dick. Phil Ferguson

You show me or anyone where in the bible, anywhere that YOUR god says something to the effect of "I the LORD thy god grants man free will." The fact of the matter is, is that it doesn't exist. Not anywhere. So in fact your god does NOT grant you Free Will of any kind. Period. But in truth, I hope you find it because then that would mean that YOUR bible contradicts itself YET AGAIN for the thousandth time or so, because there so many verses that prove that god does not, by any means, grant free will.
Another example in fact god shuts you down with Free Will all over his bible. A perfect example of that is one of the 10 commandments... Threatening people with death is taking Free Will away.
Thankfully pretty much no one follows the justice followed by your ridiculous mayhem god.
The 10 commandments are a perfect example. If those were to be upheld, at least 80% of this population would not be in existence or better. But that is what is estimated of those who claim that they are christians who do not read their bible except for once every other week. And that’s only a couple of verses, if that.
* Taking thy lord thy god’s name is vein requires being stoned to death (blasphemy.
* Working on the sabbath also requires to be put to death.
* Adultery requires to be put to death.
* Honoring your parents/ dishonoring cursing at you parents. WHAT? The others listed above are what they are. But honor thy mother and father. What? Not if they rape, beat and torture me. Not if they are lousy parents and they do not guide me in my journey through life in growing up. Not if they abuse me such as neglect and for me to be ignored which is the worst form of abuse there is which is what your god did to nearly 100% of those who have EVER walked the earth. Your god HATES children.

If you believe in god you do not have free will of any kind. Period. Let's look at it from god's point of view because god himself does NOT have free will IF he knows his future. After all, how can he if he is omnipotent because he will have already known his choices that have been chosen? That is NOT Free Will. So if YOUR god does not have Free Will and the ability to choose, most definitely man does NOT have Free Will and the ability to choose. Got it? It will only lead you---right---back---here---this---moment------in---time.

Also there's free will in hate? No! That makes no sense whatsoever if this god guy is supposed to be loving, caring and kind. Wow what a true contradiction if there ever was one. But then again, god and the bible are riddled with thousands of contradictions which proves 0 intelligence. If this god guy of yours is omnipotent and cares, with kindness, and love in which there's no way he can because this god guy can easily take the evil and hate out of Free Will such as the brutal rape, beating and torturing of a 6 year old girl as an example. But no, he doesn't. He leaves it in. Thus that absolutely proves that this god of your IS EVIL(and he freely admits it several times is HIS bible. Would you like the verses?) AND IS BASED ON HATE as he truly hates children and knowingly creates children to suffer. WHAT? What kind of supreme deity does this? (would you like the verses?)
And ah yes, its the children that suffer and its daddy that doesn't get punished when he sticks his you know what inside of his daughter while punching her in the face sometimes twice per week for 17 years. Sick. But god creates Free Will huh? Um no. Um not a chance. Once again, if god is god loving kind and caring, in which he is clearly not, he can take the evil and hate out of free will. But no. He leaves evil in Free Will. What a joke. So this god of yours loves suffering, pain, hate, evil and wow does he prove it. That’s entirely what you believe in IF you believe in god. Don’t you dare shake your head away from it.
Now let's look at it from a child's point of view in which god truly hates children btw and your bible proves. Would you like some direct quotes? Nah I didn't think so, because you christians for nearly 100% of you are true cowards and you can't even pay attention to your ignorant bible's when slapped right in front of you.
OK ready?
A 4 year old child has no Free Will whatsoever to break free from daddy when he is sticking his you know what inside of his daughter while punching her in the face and sometimes does it for 13 years or longer as I have known someone who has gone through this kind of intense suffering and agony. Your pathetic jesus, in which there’s 0 proof of having ever existing, had it easy in being tortured for 17 hours tops. Oh but wait, its ONLY the religious christian maggots that actually believes that the perpetrator out-trumps the child with his Free Will who in comparison to the child who is treated like trash in your bible who does not get to speak one---single--- sentence which is the worst form of child abuse there is, neglect and to be ignored. Well good luck with that you sickened christians because if that were your actual testimony in today's society, the key to your prison of a black hole would be thrown away for the rest of your miserable lives and rightly so.
Where is the daughters Free Will to escape? Ah yes---it---does---not---exist!!!!!!!!!!! And how dare you make the attempt to take the "value" of the perpetrators Free Will to rape innocent children over that of the "value" of children who do not have Free Will. But then again, god truly hates children as just proved. And can be proved in so many other ways. Would you like me to? Nah. I didn't think so. Religious cowards such as you run for cover anytime anything bad is said about your frail fragile demonic god that you do not have the answers for. No offense.
Do you fully understand that? god could easily be kind and caring by taking the evil out of Free Will. But he doesn’t. He leaves it in. That right there proves him to be one evil and true hate filled sickened diseased wacko. That is of course if Free Will exists if you believe in god in which case god obviously does not exist. There's no way he can. Its a vicious catch 22. And you are on the short end of the stick, always with no turnabout and absolutely no answer to refute a word as to what has just been said.
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 2
This round has not been posted yet.
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 3
This round has not been posted yet.
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 4
This round has not been posted yet.
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 5
25 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by backwardseden 1 year ago
backwardseden
Well then that's a very good thing to QUESTION. ALWAYS question. And it is very clear that you are very young. You are also very gullible. What's wrong with having something that is tangible?
So why---on---earth did you start with the end of a book and not the beginning? The NT is the end. The OT is the beginning. Without god you don't have christ. 1 + 1 = 2 right? Reason, think, rationalize, use common sense, and use logic.
Now would you have a god in your life that freely admitted that he's evil, has anger, wrath, vengeance, rage, fury, jealousy of all things? Then he's committed uncounted genocides, hates gays, loves raped women, hates women, hates children... more than 1/2 the planet. Don't take my word for it. Take your own. Start reading from genesis on.
But first do you really think that your god would ---ever--- communicate in TEXT form, the worst form of communication possible? Rather than providing man with actual evidence? There's nothing in the bible that IS actual evidence because its all copies upon copies upon copies and translations upon translations with nothing that leads back to any original. Do you really think that a SUPREME DEITY would be that STUPID to do that? And in doing as such NOT communicate with us, that be us as in man by simply talking to us? Think about it.
Posted by SirNoodles518 1 year ago
SirNoodles518
Ok. Btw I never pretended to know everything. I admitted to not understanding the entire Bible. I'm only young and have a lot to learn and I'm still questioning my beliefs. Maybe I am rude but that's something we share in common. I'm not going to apologise to you and I don't expect an apology from you either so I guess we're done. Good night and good luck for the future.
Posted by backwardseden 1 year ago
backwardseden
Oh boy but you sure act and sound ever so smart. You twist and turn just like it. Because you take things without reasoning, thinking, rationalizing, common sense, nor logic because your god, religion and bible does not require a single ounce of it. Then you try to petty it upon me.
AGAIN AND FOR THE FINAL FRICKEN TIME YOUR GOD had murdered do you want the figured? OK fine. In his good book 2,821,364 people which included babies and children. OH I get it, to you murdering children and babies is PERFECTLY OK and humdrum and let"s continue on with out merry old day. Oh and btw, with that figure, that took place in only one little itty bitty tiny splatch of land. Now you try and think about that. But your mind cannot possibly fathom that. Oh but it can fathom JC and his big big big resurrection in which there"s no proof whatsoever for god nor JC ever existing. You are so fricken gullible. Have you ever heard of taking something at face value and seeing something before your eyes and having something tangible? Nah. That"s too much for you.
Oh and talking about insulting faiths? Are you serious? Without faiths, there would be no excuse for man to kill each other because of each others petty little god"s. Your JC is the most fought over thing ever. I don"t believe in that s--t. You can if you want to.
"I haven't come here to start an argument or a debate." Of course you did, otherwise you would have left a long time ago.
AGAIN AND FOR THE LAST TIME. YOU SHOW INTELLIGENCE AND AN EDUCATION, WE GET ALONG. yOU DON"T AND YOU INVENT EXCUSES AND YOU FLAT OUT LIE AS SO MANY DO AND PRETEND TO KNOW SOMETHING IN WHICH YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT, ITS OVER.
AGAIN AND FOR THE LAST TIME. tHEY ARE NOT MY BELIEFS. I CAN PROVE WHAT i KNOW. YOU CAN"T.
No you are rude. You worship a god that murders babies and children. Good night. The only way I will pay further attention to you is if you give me an apology. Otherwise we"re done.
Posted by SirNoodles518 1 year ago
SirNoodles518
I never said I thought I was so smart. I'm nowhere near the smartest person in the world. Did you read my message? I haven't come here to start an argument or a debate. I came here to ask you to stop insulting people just because of their faiths. It's not right and it's something I'm not going to happily let happen. Your beliefs are your beliefs and I completely respect that. You are rude and I tried to say it as nicely as possible. I'm not writing this to you just because I'm a Christian. Even if I was an atheist I wouldn't let you insult other people for their beliefs.

But it seems that your beliefs are fixed and I'm not going to change that. I've said what I've wanted to say and to be honest I don't want to continue this. You're not going to listen to me so what's the point? If insulting people for their beliefs makes you happy then so be it. Just don't criticise a person's personality just because of their religion. I don't know everything about my religion yet and because I'm still learning I decided not to debate you because you wouldn't listen to me anyway even if I had some evidence. I only commented on this to tell you it's wrong to insult an entire person's personality just based off of what religion they believe in. Good night.
Posted by backwardseden 1 year ago
backwardseden
So rightly he should have been executed because this jesus guy did not have the power to change god"s laws rules and regulations. . So until you find me or anyone those frail fragile verses that do not exist, the transferring of power, to give this jesus guy the stamp of approval from your god to CHANGE YOUR GOD"S LAWS, rules and regulations, then he"s a nobody. So 4. Then christianity does not exist, christ is false and the NT is false. Oh but wait you haven"t read 5. The OT so how can you possibly know that? 6. Indeed the jews have it correct. Christ is indeed a false messiah because he did in fact break god"s word and the real messiah has yet to appear. Now 7. Study your fricken bible. And it has nothing to do with 8. Your beliefs.
Now for starters in reading the beginning of my debate, you SHOULD be offended. I"m offended by YOUR god hating children and murdering innocent children and babies.
I am going to keep on doing this for as long as it takes because YOUR god truly hates children of all things for jeez sakes and knowingly causes their suffering. And it doesn"t matter if this god character exists or not. The fact is, is that that hatred is printed in your bible as clear as day making people believe in it. That"s just for starters. And you didn"t even have the decency to ask me what "i know" to be absolutely true and I can prove it. So don"t call me rude. K?
Posted by backwardseden 1 year ago
backwardseden
How is it that you use ---reason--- in every of the other endeavor in your life and then when it comes to the ultimate truth, the most important truth your"re saying that faith is required and how is that supposed to reflect on a god? What kind of a god requires faith instead of evidence?" Matt Dillahunty and he"s right.
"Faith is the reason people give when they don"t have evidence."

Well that"s not my problem that you don"t understand a lot of the OT. That"s yours. Dig into it and see how sick, disgusting, filthy, cannibalistic, vile, hateful, diseased, racist, it is. And then read about how this god of YOURS freely admits that he is evil, has anger, wrath, vengeance, rage, fury, jealousy as previously mentioned in which no supreme deity ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever would which SCREAMS of imperfection. And this is the bile you worship? Oh and btw, I just posted on my new debate some of the verses that YOUR god spewed out towards children. Its a whole world of fun and games.
Now since you haven"t read your OT, then you have absolutely no business stating ANYTHING because you have no EVIDENCE to back yourself up with. None.
"But to me the New Testament is what matters because it's the new covenant that Jesus set up. " How can that possibly be if you don"t know all that much about the OT? Really? Are you fricken serious? And you wonder why I don"t degrade people like you into nothingness and you absolutely fricken deserve every bit of it.1. You show me anywhere, and I do mean anywhere in YOUR bible where YOUR god gave YOUR precious jesus permission, because after all jesus is lower than god on the pedestal, I mean we can at least agree on that correct? So show me where ANYWHERE in your bible that YOUR god gives permission and or grants jesus this so-called "new covenant"? In fact it does---not---exist. 2. In fact this precious jesus of yours broke quite a few of YOUR god"s laws such as working on the sabbath which is punishable by death.
Posted by backwardseden 1 year ago
backwardseden
You have no evidence. That"s the problem. Because if you did, then your god would rack supreme as the headmaster and he would rule this entire earth and there would be only one religion. And the problem is, is your god murders, rapes, hates, commits genocides, hates children, starts wars, hates gays, hates women, loves raped women, etc etc etc and its all there right there splat in your bible for you to read. Are you going to read it? Of course not. You wish to remain in the dark. Again if you show intelligence with an education we get along. If you don"t and you invent excuses and you lie, we don"t. And again, I didn"t ask you to visit my debate(s).
"There have been historical accounts that have proved the existence of Jesus," No there haven"t. 50 years or whatever after someone"s death and delivering a letter is NOT PROOF. "people have had visions and messages from God etc." That most certainly is not proof. That"s faith. And faith can never be proved. You must think that creationists are a bunch of morons. They will not put god on trial for a second time because they 100% know that they will lose. That"s because everything that they have is faith based oriented. And faith---cannot---be---proved. And since you think you are so smart, go ahead right now and prove faith and better yet prove that god exists. See? Just as I thought. You have evidence for absolutely NOTHING. Thin air at beest for the truly gullible like yourself. But there are those out there who are educated and intelligent who want something "tangible". Now what part of that don"t you understand?

"Why would you believe anything on faith? Faith isn"t a pathway to truth. Every religion has some sort of faith. If faith is your pathway you can"t distinguish between christianity, Hinduism, judaism, any of these others.
Posted by SirNoodles518 1 year ago
SirNoodles518
As I said before, I didn't come here to start an argument, I came here to ask you to stop insulting people of other faiths. Anything I say won't change your mind because the evidence I have wouldn't convince you. There have been historical accounts that have proved the existence of Jesus, people have had visions and messages from God etc. But if I said that you wouldn't believe me. I'll be honest as well, I myself don't understand a lot of the Old Testament either. But to me the New Testament is what matters because it's the new covenant that Jesus set up. It's the part of the Bible that founded Christianity - the religion I believe it. Fair enough that you don't believe in it and I completely respect that. I never said your beliefs were stupid. I said other beliefs are (like people believing in Shrek as a god etc.). A lot of stuff I don't know the answer to and I'm not gonna pretend like I do. You'll probably criticise me for that and you'd criticise me for giving you an answer to a topic I know about. The thing is no matter what I say won't change your mind. What you're saying isn't changing my mind and I have thought about it. I have my beliefs on a God and they don't match perfectly up to everything in the Bible. But that's the same with every other Christian that's ever lived.

I never came to start an argument. You angered me by calling us Christians "lame-brained", 'scooter-wrecked", "unintelligent", "friendless" and many more names. And I truly believe it's wrong to look down upon people for their beliefs. I have and would stand up for others if they were criticised for their beliefs whether they were Christian, Muslim, Sikh etc.
Posted by backwardseden 1 year ago
backwardseden
He hates children, has deliberately caused massive genocides which shows him to be far worse than Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, Hong Xiuquan, Stalin, all serial killers, all torturers, all sodomizers, all pedophilies, all rapists of young girls, all haters of women, all haters of gays, etc etc etc. Oh its all there in your so-called "good" book. Loves raped women. He"s freely admitted to having evil, anger, wrath, vengeance, rage, fury, jealousy. Jealousy? What? From a supreme deity? Jealousy is nothing more than anger as disguised fear. Even better this so-called god of yours neatly passed down those emotions to man so in turn man could learn to hate. Great going god. Great going man for believing in this monstrosity. Not only that but these emotions that your god clings to for no reason at all clearly shows that he is imperfect. Now who wants to worship an imperfect god?
Strange isn"t it that in comparison that the Inca, many of the native American Indian tribes until your white man greasy sweaty racist pig christian brethren wiped them out, the aborigines, Hindu"s, Gaia Mother Earth, Buddhists etc etc etc they do not practice nor preach nor go to war over their religions, not anywhere close to the evils nor hate that the christians do Now why is that? And yet according to your god worshiping other gods is considered to be the most evil thing there is, and you should be stoned to death for it. So you follow your lord"s orders and you come on down here and stone me to death. Whatsamatter? You are not going to follow your god"s orders? Why? Why not?
Posted by backwardseden 1 year ago
backwardseden
"We have to rely on copies of copies of anonymous authors with no originals and the textural testimony to a miracle for example, there"s no amount of reports, anecdotal reports that is sufficient to justify in believing that actually happened as reported. And anything that would qualify as a god would clearly understand this and if it wanted to clearly convey this to people in a way that is believable would not be relying on ---TEXT--- to do so. And this to me is the nail in the coffin for christianity. The god that christians believe in is amazingly ---STUPID---!!! If it actually wants to achieve its goal by spreading its word to humanity by relying on text, by relying on languages that die off, by relying on anecdotal testimony, that"s not a pathway to truth. And anything that would qualify for a god would know this.which shows either god does not exist or doesn"t care enough about the people to understand the nature of evidence to actually present it. Now which of those two possibilities is accurate?" Matt Dillahunty and he"s right.

So that only leaves you with faith.
"Why would you believe anything on faith? Faith isn"t a pathway to truth. Every religion has some sort of faith. If faith is your pathway you can"t distinguish between christianity, Hinduism, judaism, any of these others. How is it that you use ---reason--- in every of the other endeavor in your life and then when it comes to the ultimate truth, the most important truth your"re saying that faith is required and how is that supposed to reflect on a god? What kind of a god requires faith instead of evidence?" Matt Dillahunty

"Faith is the reason people give when they don"t have evidence." Matt Dillahunty

Now I am not going to shut up. I"ve been doing this for 40+ years and I"ve talked with about 25,000 people. Everything would be fine IF your god was gentle, kind, caring, good, cared about others, loving" but he"s not. Not even close.
This debate has 6 more rounds before the voting begins. If you want to receive email updates for this debate, click the Add to My Favorites link at the top of the page.