The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
The Contender
Kikinova8
Con (against)

I do not believe in god therefore I have free will

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Kikinova8 has forfeited round #2.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/4/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 925 times Debate No: 103399
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (25)
Votes (0)

 

backwardseden

Pro

There is nothing in the bible that states, in fact its not even close to saying something like "I the lord thy god grants man free will." Since this is true, man does not have free will IF you are lamebrained enough to believe in god.

It will be con's job to absolutely prove that god grants man free will.

No forfeits!

Nobody with a lackluster edumacation trying to pretend that they have an intelligence and an education will be accepted!!!

So dig through those files of yours and dig hard, because I have plenty switchblade files of mine to utterly prove that god, and through other sources, does NOT grant man free will and therefore you do not have any Free Will as your destiny is predetermined IF you are scooter wrecked enough to believe in god.


I on the other hand am intelligent enough to pull weeds and not believe in god, therefore I have Free Will. Its that simple.
Kikinova8

Con

What kind of world do you live in? Running around saying things that may hurt certain cultures! See, i'm no expert, considering I personally do not believe in god, but still! How can you be so hurtful to other cultures, and not care about people who devote their lives to Christianity. I'm guessing you were baptised right? Well the priest that ever-so-kindly put that holy water on your head devoted years of practice and patience to learning the will of god. You only have free-will if you want it, god doesn't hold anyone down for ransom. Free will is your own decision, not gods. You can chose to believe or not believe, just don't hurt anyone in the process.
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

If I knew I would be carrying the baby for Hitler and I knew beforehand that he would be unleashing his ultimate destructive powers, wouldn't I be responsible for him? Absolutely I would. So naturally I would not have him. So god in being omnipotent IS responsible for Free Will.

There’s no Free Will if you believe in god and sorry that’s not open for debate because it’s an unshakable losing argument if you think there is. Its not even a close call. In the old testament you didn't have choice/ Free Will. What do you think the 10 commandments were? The great flood? The 10 plagues? etc etc etc Those were god's hard laws in which he made you obey them by the absolute strictest of terms which if not obeyed were punishable by death. So god is forcing his will on you and you do not have a choice/ Free Will, that is unless you want to die. That is NOT Free Will by any means. Threatening people with death is NOT Free Will (more on that later. So indeed, the new testament is a load of lard and so is christ as the messiah. The jews have it right. christianity is indeed false. The new testament is false. christ is false. Do you really think that since god is not going to allow you to have a choice/ Free Will in the old testament that he is simply going to POOF change his stupid idiotic mind and suddenly give you choice in the non-existent book in the new testament? Well, if you think so, then you need to get out more often. No offense! Yeah right, like god is going to grant you or anyone choice/ Free Will of any kind and have someone like you or anyone screw up by taking away his control that he has over you and everyone else? What's the point in being god if he does not have that control - to keep you on his leash and keep you as his puppet and robot? god also supposedly oversees everything - correct? So how is it that he is ---not--- going to oversee your Free Will and thus limit it? And what happens if things go terribly wrong? Are you insane? There's no way god is - ever - going to grant you or anyone choice/ Free Will. It simply does not, nor can not - ever - exist. Period.
Here’s a clincher that will cause you to grit your teeth… If god is omnipotent, and he knows the future, then god himself does not have Free Will. So how can you or man?

Tracie Harris: "Your question was regarding free will as an argument for allowing suffering. That's when you get into the problem of evil. Now the problem of evil as we all know is not an argument that demonstrates that no god exists or that god exists. What it demonstrates is that god is your god is an a$$eth. What she's telling you is she believes in a god, and I assume she worships this god? Its like is she 'happy' about her god?" Caller: "Oh oh yeah everything except for the old testament." Tracie "In other words what she is saying is 'I love this god who believes that the free will of the rapist is more important than the free will of the child being raped. That I think that its worth it to have a child be raped because I really really put a high value on a rapist's free will.’"

When she dies does she get to go to heaven? If she gets to go to heaven will she be happy? And she’ll probably say “yes”. And you say “Will you be able to choose and do anything you want while you are in heaven?” And she’ll say “yes.” And so you are basically saying “you’ll have free will in heaven?” So you have free will in heaven and no one is being hurt, raped, so you can do anything you want and no one gets hurt. If god has that power in heaven, he must have that power on earth. So he’s chose not to set that condition/ toggle switch which means he’s a dick. Phil Ferguson

You show me or anyone where in the bible, anywhere that YOUR god says something to the effect of "I the LORD thy god grants man free will." The fact of the matter is, is that it doesn't exist. Not anywhere. So in fact your god does NOT grant you Free Will of any kind. Period. But in truth, I hope you find it because then that would mean that YOUR bible contradicts itself YET AGAIN for the thousandth time or so, because there so many verses that prove that god does not, by any means, grant free will.
Another example in fact god shuts you down with Free Will all over his bible. A perfect example of that is one of the 10 commandments... Threatening people with death is taking Free Will away.
Thankfully pretty much no one follows the justice followed by your ridiculous mayhem god.
The 10 commandments are a perfect example. If those were to be upheld, at least 80% of this population would not be in existence or better. But that is what is estimated of those who claim that they are christians who do not read their bible except for once every other week. And that’s only a couple of verses, if that.
* Taking thy lord thy god’s name is vein requires being stoned to death (blasphemy.
* Working on the sabbath also requires to be put to death.
* Adultery requires to be put to death.
* Honoring your parents/ dishonoring cursing at you parents. WHAT? The others listed above are what they are. But honor thy mother and father. What? Not if they rape, beat and torture me. Not if they are lousy parents and they do not guide me in my journey through life in growing up. Not if they abuse me such as neglect and for me to be ignored which is the worst form of abuse there is which is what your god did to nearly 100% of those who have EVER walked the earth. Your god HATES children.

If you believe in god you do not have free will of any kind. Period. Let's look at it from god's point of view because god himself does NOT have free will IF he knows his future. After all, how can he if he is omnipotent because he will have already known his choices that have been chosen? That is NOT Free Will. So if YOUR god does not have Free Will and the ability to choose, most definitely man does NOT have Free Will and the ability to choose. Got it? It will only lead you---right---back---here---this---moment------in---time.

Also there's free will in hate? No! That makes no sense whatsoever if this god guy is supposed to be loving, caring and kind. Wow what a true contradiction if there ever was one. But then again, god and the bible are riddled with thousands of contradictions which proves 0 intelligence. If this god guy of yours is omnipotent and cares, with kindness, and love in which there's no way he can because this god guy can easily take the evil and hate out of Free Will such as the brutal rape, beating and torturing of a 6 year old girl as an example. But no, he doesn't. He leaves it in. Thus that absolutely proves that this god of your IS EVIL(and he freely admits it several times is HIS bible. Would you like the verses?) AND IS BASED ON HATE as he truly hates children and knowingly creates children to suffer. WHAT? What kind of supreme deity does this? (would you like the verses?)
And ah yes, its the children that suffer and its daddy that doesn't get punished when he sticks his you know what inside of his daughter while punching her in the face sometimes twice per week for 17 years. Sick. But god creates Free Will huh? Um no. Um not a chance. Once again, if god is god loving kind and caring, in which he is clearly not, he can take the evil and hate out of free will. But no. He leaves evil in Free Will. What a joke. So this god of yours loves suffering, pain, hate, evil and wow does he prove it. That’s entirely what you believe in IF you believe in god. Don’t you dare shake your head away from it.
Now let's look at it from a child's point of view in which god truly hates children btw and your bible proves. Would you like some direct quotes? Nah I didn't think so, because you christians for nearly 100% of you are true cowards and you can't even pay attention to your ignorant bible's when slapped right in front of you.
OK ready?
A 4 year old child has no Free Will whatsoever to break free from daddy when he is sticking his you know what inside of his daughter while punching her in the face and sometimes does it for 13 years or longer as I have known someone who has gone through this kind of intense suffering and agony. Your pathetic jesus, in which there’s 0 proof of having ever existing, had it easy in being tortured for 17 hours tops. Oh but wait, its ONLY the religious christian maggots that actually believes that the perpetrator out-trumps the child with his Free Will who in comparison to the child who is treated like trash in your bible who does not get to speak one---single--- sentence which is the worst form of child abuse there is, neglect and to be ignored. Well good luck with that you sickened christians because if that were your actual testimony in today's society, the key to your prison of a black hole would be thrown away for the rest of your miserable lives and rightly so.
Where is the daughters Free Will to escape? Ah yes---it---does---not---exist!!!!!!!!!!! And how dare you make the attempt to take the "value" of the perpetrators Free Will to rape innocent children over that of the "value" of children who do not have Free Will. But then again, god truly hates children as just proved. And can be proved in so many other ways. Would you like me to? Nah. I didn't think so. Religious cowards such as you run for cover anytime anything bad is said about your frail fragile demonic god that you do not have the answers for. No offense.
Do you fully understand that? god could easily be kind and caring by taking the evil out of Free Will. But he doesn’t. He leaves it in. That right there proves him to be one evil and true hate filled sickened diseased wacko. That is of course if Free Will exists if you believe in god in which case god obviously does not exist. There's no way he can. Its a vicious catch 22. And you are on the short end of the stick, always with no turnabout and absolutely no answer to refute a word as to what has just been said.
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Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
25 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 11 through 20 records.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
3. And the BOP is always upon you to prove your god in which you cannot do. Not---even---close.

I insult you straight away because you didn"t provide any evidence, naturally. That"s what cowards do. Its also what runners do. OK great, now"s your chance, provide some evidence. Prove your god exists. Oh but I do know some of the christians on this site, and nearly all of them are friendless and loveless. Wow does it show. And its so ridiculously easy to spot. "I'll admit my knowledge of the Bible and Christianity isn't perfect and I don't believe exactly everything written in the Bible." Then you know what? And this is going to be hard for you to accept and take, but that makes you an atheist. Like it or not. Now think about this and here"s why" No god would EVER communicate in text form of any kind. None. That"s because text is the worst form of communication possible.
"If god is all knowing and he knows the future of all events and he wrote a book that can only be interpreted as if it endorses slavery and if its heinous violence against your children against your neighbors" how could a god be that omnipotent and devise a book where we can"t distinguish between the law of Israel and god"s law? I mean their interwoven where we have metaphor and fact and nobody can distinguish the two. We don"t know what we"re supposed to take figuratively. We don"t know what we"re supposed to take literally. Was it actually a tree? I mean come on. How can anyone distinguish this. I mean come on. It doesn"t make any sense. It doesn"t matter how its translated. It doesn"t matter what version. If it was written by an omnipotent being there would be ONE VERSION. And there would be only ONE WAY to interpret it because it would be written well." Aron Ra
Actually it wouldn"t be written at all. What"s wrong with your god comin" down and talking to people? "Hey you know some of that stuff that"s in the book? I"m here to correct it." Matt Dillahunty
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@SirNoodles518 Wow. You"ve read a hunk and a chunk of the bible.Um nope. That is painfully, blatantly and obviously clear. Well god is not kind and caring when it comes to children which is solid proof that you do not read your bible one damn little bit except for maybe one stinking sentence that you may have found here or there.
"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. Those of us schooled from infancy in his ways can become desensitized to their horror." - Richard Dawkins And he happens to know one---helluva---lot more about god, the bible and religion that you ---ever---will. So do I, I might add.
Of course you are here to start an argument from the mess you started in an appeal from the one earlier in an attempt to clean up. Sure your beliefs are your beliefs. So? I respect them IF and only IF they are intelligent, educated and NOT if you make excuses and flat out lie in order for you make up for lost ground and thus pretend that you have knowledge for something in which case you really don"t rather than saying "I don"t know" which are terrorist words to christians, especially when they think that they know-it-all as their bible proclaims when it in fact is so ridiculously far off its not even funny that its insulting.
Now answer me these questions" and I"m not trying to be snide or rude here: Did I ask you to come and visit my debate(s)? That answer is "no". So then how am I being rude to you when you come up with your unintelligent answers? Btw, my "beliefs" are not stupid. Yours are. That"s because you do not know what I so-called "believe", because 1. You never asked. 2. I can prove it and ---everybody--- "believes" it. They just don"t know it.
Posted by SirNoodles518 3 years ago
SirNoodles518
I've read a fair amount of the Bible and never have I seen God declaring He hates children. In fact I've seen the opposite when God is loving and caring for children. But I'm not trying to start an argument. All I'm trying to say in the nicest way possible is that our beliefs are our beliefs and you should respect that. I find some people's beliefs a bit stupid in a similar way you find mine stupid but I don't hold their religious beliefs against them - I respect them as much as I'd do to any person.

It's kind of funny that you start insulting me straight away and calling me uneducated even though you don't know anything about me other than the fact I am Christian. I have an education. You don't know any of the Christians you talk to on this site and how educated they are really. I'll admit my knowledge of the Bible and Christianity isn't perfect and I don't believe exactly everything written in the Bible.

All I'm asking is that you leave us to do and believe in what we want. It's a basic human right that everyone should let everyone else believe in any religion they choose. I could start insulting you like you started insulting me. But I'm not going to do that because I respect your opinions and beliefs.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@futurepast05 Um no you cannot demonstrate that free will comes from god as is per the main topic that states that "I the lord thy god grants man free will". Nothing. 0. zipa. Nada. So until you can come up with anything like that, then anything you say is null and void. Oh and by the way, I've seen toilet dust sparks like you claim one thing and then when it comes down for them to prove it, they have nothing. And by your bragging rights, I know you better than you know you, you have nothing and you fricken know it. So dry up and blow away. Bye.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
SirNoodles518 "This isn't even an attempt to start a debate." According to what and or who's clothes are dirty from peanut juice? Yours? Perhaps when you raise your king sized bikini wafers and smile at the camera saying "duh into that whistle as loud as you can so that no paint dries off", then perhaps you may earn some bragging rights under the west wing of the alphabet.
" This is an attempt to insult the many people that believe in God." Um no dullard dimwitted snot meat sow, its not. Its a genuine attempt at a genuine debate in the HOPES TO FIND SOMEONE OUT THERE WHO IS INTELLIGENT AND EDUCATED!!!!!!!!!!!! Unlike you, and nearly every single christian out there that I has thus far met up with here on this site and elsewhere in my life and I've talked with about 25,000 on the subject of religion, god, and the bible.
"I don't care..." Well I do care. That's the difference between you and me. "but you have no right to insult us for our beliefs." Oh WRONG especially when you have no evidence to back up what you say and you try to pretend that you do from knowledge upon in which you have none and you thus invent excuses and flat out lie for something in which you clearly know nothing about when all you have to do is simply say "I don't know." But nah, those 3 words of "I don't know" are terrorist words to christians because they think that they have every single little answer wrapped up within their little bible's when as an example, Noah's ark and the great flood NEVER HAPPENED. And Ken Ham is only proof of that himself.
Now I'd respect you, absolutely YES, IF and only IF you'd show some intelligence and an education.
"So why can't you respect the fact that some people in this world choose to believe in God?" You are not the problem. god is. Your god truly hates children and causes their knowing pain and suffering. But its rather blatantly clear the you have not read your bible as nearly 80% of all who claim themselves to be christians do.
Posted by futurepast05 3 years ago
futurepast05
I could do it. It's fairly easy actually. This isn't the actual debate but I could tell you where free will comes from in the Christian religion, if you people really wanted to know. I would make like a Blogspot or something, and could show you where free will is in the Bible. To me, this is just another case of someone who does not understand and has not done their proper research. The fact is, before challenging someone, at least do your research into their beliefs so it could be an intelligent conversation. Shutting someone down is not as easy as it seems dude.
Posted by SirNoodles518 3 years ago
SirNoodles518
This isn't even an attempt to start a debate. This is an attempt to insult the many people that believe in God. I don't care if you're Atheist or not but you have no right to insult us for our beliefs. I'd never do the same to a non-Christian as I respect that all people have different beliefs. So why can't you respect the fact that some people in this world choose to believe in God?
Posted by NDECD1441 3 years ago
NDECD1441
Well this is actually a nice topic.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@isaacthemaniac Wow talk about arrogance. It takes you 6 posts to say the same thing? You couldn"t have checked up on it to see if it was repeated? That"s arrogance bub.
Oh trust me I am intelligent with an edumacation especially when it comes to god, religion and the bible in which are all hypnotically idiotic. Yeah you are not sure. Well I am. "Free will be definition denotes the presence of choice." Not if you believe in god. Sorry. That can be shut down in so many ways. Probably about 100. But that would take explaining probably well beyond your realm of thinking. "The existence of people who choose to believe in God and those who do not is a clear manifestation of free will." Well then god isn"t all knowing nor is he all powerful now is he? Nor is he in control of everything, nor does he know everything, nor is he omnipotent, nor is he perfect. You just broke the chain of command. Of course um no you cannot possibly be correct because there"s a slew other Free Will subjects that have not even been discussed that your tiny little mind has not even dreampt of. Naturally. Consider adjusting your cabbage batbrain.
Posted by isaacthemaniac 3 years ago
isaacthemaniac
It seems like your arrogance blinds your intelligence. I am not sure if this is a debate or another avenue for feel good moments for an athiest who seems to subscribe to biblical views. Free will be definition denotes the presence of choice. The existence of people who choose to believe in God and those who do not is a clear manifestation of free will. Ofcourse i can only be right with your intelligent blessing,it seems more like another shallow attempt at missionary athiesm not actual debate. Consider adjusting your language
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