The Instigator
Debater2018
Pro (for)
Winning
1 Points
The Contender
backwardseden
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

If Jesus had not sacrificed Himself

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
Debater2018
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/5/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 487 times Debate No: 117343
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (1)

 

Debater2018

Pro

If one had curiosity enough to investigate the writings of most religious writers concerning this subject, They would find that not only would Chrisianity not exist, But most hospitals and other benevolent institutions would not either. All peoples would be living under a much more brutal, Deceitful and dishonest government that they presently may have. Because the Spiritual light of the New Testament that might shine dimly in some parts of the world. . . . Still is shining.
I think not. . . . . . . . . .

If Jesus had not sacrificed Himself. . . . . . . . This entire universe would not exist. God cannot tolerate sin. Since the centerpiece of creation became corrupted by this. God would not have had no other alternative but to destroy the entirety.

Many ask that if God had all foreknowledge, Why would He have implemented the creation in the first place? God is not limited by His foreknowledge because He also possesses the ability to choose not to know. The scriptures teach that God is not only able to forgive His spiritual children. . . . . He possesses the ability to no longer remember their sins: 'I, Even I, Am He that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, And will not remember thy sins. ' (Isaiah 43:25)

This is what would have occurred had Jesus not made the decision to try to give whoever of mankind the opportunity to become what was originally intended by the creation, To become His child:

'But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, And the elements shall melt with fervent heat, The earth also and the works therein shall be burned up. ' (2 Peter 3:10)

'
backwardseden

Con

First off naturally, You'd have to prove that god even exists in which you cannot. Secondly you'd have to prove that christ has ever existed in which you cannot. Third suppose that christ had existed, He's clearly not the messiah to begin with of this so-called god.
Btw, There are a lot of atheist writers on the subject. So claiming religious writers would even know what they are talking about is a load. Oh and btw, Worldwide peace will never occur with religion in it. Oh and btw, Your messiah is the most fought after figure in the history of the human race. Oh and btw your god murdered 2, 821, 364 for absolutely no reason at all in his bible which included babies still suckling on their mothers nipples, Children and pregnant mothers in which is abortions. But wait aren't christians supposed to be against abortions? So that's a direct hypocritical contradiction. "More people have been killed in the name of god than for any other reason. " George Carlin and he's right.
Did your god ---ever--- state anywhere in your bible something like "I give unto you christ the ability to change my laws that I have created. " No in fact it doesn't say that anywhere in your bible. And yet your christ did. He changed working on the sabbath as an example in which required the death penalty. EX 31:14, NU 15: 32-36 So rightly christ should have been executed by god's laws as christ had no power to break them.
ay attention closely:
*Proverbs 30:5 "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. "
*Isaiah 40:8 "The grass withereth, The flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever. "
*2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, And is profitable for doctrine, For reproof, For correction, For instruction in righteousness:"
*Psalm 19:7 "The law of the Lord is perfect, Converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, Making wise the simple. "
*Psalm 119:160 "Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. "
* James 1:17 "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, And cometh down from the Father of lights, With whom is no variableness, Neither shadow of turning. "
In other words god"s word is PERFECT. It cannot be changed by anyone or anything. Christ who was not god, Being the lowly drab that he supposedly was in which like god who in which nobody can even prove has ever existed could---not---change---god"s---laws---because---god"s---word---is---PERFECT---and---cannot---be---changed. Got it?

* John 5: 16-18 "16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, And sought to slay him, Because he had done these things on the sabbath day. 17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, And I work. 18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, Because he not only had broken the sabbath, But said also that God was his Father, Making himself equal with God. "
17 Indeed christ is flatly lying about his "father", Namely god, As there's no chance in this universe that his father would --ever-- for any reason work on the sabbath. Its either than or christ doesn't know any better (yeah right try again), Or that verse is a misprint in which case the bible is supposed to be perfect (well the bible is the furthest thing from being perfect with at least 1, 000 contradictions and inconsistencies and no god who is reasonably intelligent would ever be stupid enough to use text as a form of communication, The worst form of communication possible), Or its true and god would work on the sabbath in which case the entire OT, All of it is false. Well um no that's not true at all. So its the NT that is false, Christ lied, Christianity is false, Christ is false also. To further prove it let's look at verse 18. The jews were rightful to seek to kill christ for working on the sabbath. "making himself equal with god". Did god give christ that right? NOPE. In fact its christ's own pathetic ego that did. Yeah the bible is a stunning superior ego god complex and nothing more.

Great family values statements "abandon your families, Give away all your possessions, Follow me:"
Abandon your families. Only a completely insane person would order this. Only a completely insane person would follow christ.
* Matthew 10: 35-37 "For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, And the daughter against her mother, And the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. "
* Luke 12 51-53 "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, Three against two, And two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, And the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, And the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, And the daughter in law against her mother in law. "
* Matthew 19: 28-29 "And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, In the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, Ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, Judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, Or brethren, Or sisters, Or father, Or mother, Or wife, Or children, Or lands, For my name's sake, Shall receive an hundredfold, And shall inherit everlasting life. "

Get rid of ALL of your possessions in which all of you reading this have not done as you have your computers and most likely a home, You most certainly haven't given up ALL of your possessions in any way to follow your jesus. And where would you follow him to?
* Luke 14:33 "So likewise, Whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, He cannot be my disciple. "
* Luke 18:22 "Now when Jesus heard these things, He said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, And distribute unto the poor, And thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, Follow me. "
* Matthew 19: 28-29 (can surely be repeated)
* Matthew 19:21 "Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, Go and sell that thou hast, And give to the poor, And thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. "
* Matthew 13: 22 "He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, And the deceitfulness of riches, Choke the word, And he becometh unfruitful. "

Only believers can be in christ can be"Saved". Yep racism abounds. Screw all other religions. Screw all other beliefs.
* Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. "
* John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, Because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. "
* John 3:36 "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. "
* John 5:24 "Verily, Verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, And believeth on him that sent me, Hath everlasting life, And shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. "

From the Secular Web
MK 16:17-18 A believer can handle snakes or drink poison and not experience any harm.
(Note: Many unfortunate believers have died as a result of handling snakes and/or drinking poison; this kind of assertion negates the Bible as a useful guidebook for life. It should also be noted that the oldest manuscripts of Mark end at MK 16:8; as the footnotes to The New Oxford Annotated Bible put it, Verses 9-20 cannot have been part of the original text of Mark. )

Conclusion:
If man is to put his trust into christ, He will be forever doomed. Thankfully man has the intelligence and the fortitude to not to.
Debate Round No. 1
Debater2018

Pro

I will not respond to garbage so take it elsewhere. You do not yet possess the maturity to engage in a formal public DEBATE such as this so my advice to you is refrain from this type of forum for about 5 years. Your posts appear to possibly fit in on a social media geared for adolescents.

We have ample evidence that Jesus existed in the 1st century. We have the writings of His true enemies, The Jewish leaders. We also have His burial shroud that the very early Christians venerated. I will not DEBATE these topics with someone as immature as yourself however.
backwardseden

Con

Typical so-called christian (because there's no such a thing as being a christian). Wow. Just like nearly 100% of those who claim themselves to be so-called christians, They simply cannot do one thing. What is that one thing you ask with your belly button flint? You are totally 100% incapable of taking YOUR god, Jesus (in which for both you cannot even has proved has ever existed and no one can) and bible at its word.
Debate Round No. 2
Debater2018

Pro

We have the writings of Jesus' enemies attesting to the fact of His existence. . . . The Jewish leaders. We have His burial cloth that is causing the skeptics to fall away more and more every year where are being proven wrong.

Do not sign on to DEBATE me again till you have grown up more, About for another 5 years.
backwardseden

Con

"We. . . " Whoa there straddle horse. Who is this "we"? Um no, It you, Just you that "have the writings of Jesus' enemies attesting to the fact of His existence" which was how many years after his death was this? So please try harder from something in which you clearly know nothing about and yet you pretend that you do. So its mere hickory bark stories and nothing more. Oh and to rely on one letter to prove jesus's life isn't much. That's not much to go on. As the matter of fact that's pretty close to 0%.

Jesus wasn't Jesus - Aron Ra (youtube)

Again, Who is this "We"? No its you. Only you. A burial cloth proving what exactly? How does anyone know that its christ - or how will anyone ever know its christ?

Btw sonny you have it 100% wrong. . . YOUR ooga booga jesus did not sacrifice himself. It was preordained by his so-called "father", Namely god, Long beforehand that this unproved christ sneezerag was to horrifically die on the cross. What a true great bile unproved god this was - to have NOT in any way have thought of a better way than to torture someone in the most gruesome of ways to teach others that suffering is really a lot of fun and should be glorified. Now you tell me or anyone who is sane. . . What can a child, And you are a child, Possibly learn from suffering? If you've answered "nothing" then you've answered correctly.
Also strange, Since this god of YOURS is supposed to be so high and mighty, Then why did he only send one christ? Why not hundreds or thousands or millions all spreading his same---exact---word? Clearly one christ was in no possible way enough. After all, YOUR christ is the most fought after figure in the history of the human race.

Yeah you must love suffering and horrific pain. And yet you do not even know what true horrific suffering and pain truly is. See, There are billions from around the world that believe in peace, Harmony, Kindness, Love, Care for each other, Harmony etc etc etc. You don't. You are totally incapable of it. You believe in YOUR god. You cannot even show anyone with YOUR god where there's been peace anywhere in this world since YOUR god's inception for any length of time. Wow. Your god has freely admitted to having evil, Anger, Wrath, Vengeance, Rage, Fury, Jealousy etc etc etc. Great! Just what any supreme deity would ---ever--- want or have - right? And even worse is this god guy neatly passed down those emotions to man so in turn man could learn to hate with at least 1 billion dead on the battlefields alone all in the supposed "good" name of YOUR god. Way to go god. Way to go for you believing in this trash. Keep up the good work. Jealousy? What? From a supreme deity? Jealousy is nothing more than anger as disguised fear. So don't talk to me about your jesus, A false messiah, K?

Oh and oh yeah, Why don't you look up Hong Xiuquan and the Taiping Rebellion. Yep Hong knew himself to be the younger brother of your messiah.

"Do not sign on to DEBATE me again till you have grown up more, About for another 5 years. " Well garsh oh great god of toxic waste, You are still a child in his crib still suckling on his bottle. After all, You have freely admitted that you can't read.
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by mosc 3 years ago
mosc
@Debater2018

My douche bag Xtian opponent compares to the dude who repeats himself over and over and over ad nauseum/ad infinitum.
Posted by mosc 3 years ago
mosc
@Debater2018

The all knowing stuttering ego of backwardseden he's the first to inform all that they know nothing and that he possesses a monopoly upon all knowledge. HaHaHa what a joker. This loser demands that all others become his doormat. . . Think he alone has justification to express his crude rude behavior. . . Assumes the center of attention spins around himself. . . Has an addiction for compliments. . . Lives as an energy vampire. . . Lacks all empathy for others feelings. . . Totally lacks self esteem deep down. . . Only jabbers his opinions and does not know how to listen to other people. . . He's a taker and never a giver. . . Probably has no other hobby other than worship himself. . . Pretends that he has friends while all others do no. . . Values only himself. . . This dude has a small universe, His statements employ "should" and "must". . . The friends of this loser - only superficial. . . He feeds off of other people's psych. . . Totally incomplete, That's why he does not finish debates. . . Lacks internal confidence. . . Can not imagine other viewpoints from his own. . . Opinionated having only superficial knowledge. . . Harsh critic of others. . . Has virtually no long lasting relationships. . . Lacks the ability to feel empathy for others. . . Behaves as the arrogant type. . . Inadequacy defines his life. . . He maximizes his opinion and minimizes all other opinions. . . He thinks the world owes him. . .

Please everyone should pity this fool and don't treat him too harshly, His fragile ego cracks like an egg. He hides his damaged ego with loud outbursts and allot of bluster.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@Debater2018 - "One does not have to twist any of the New Testament" You are so right. Its all there, If you were to have bothered to have read it and read what actually took pace. Oh but gee, We forgot all the sinning, Hell, The crucifixions, That suffering is somehow a "good" thing in which no child can learn anything from except for absolutely nothing, The end of the earth. All "good" things. Right? Gee your NT teaches the beginning of suffering. Buddhism teaches the end of suffering. Golly! Which one is preferable? And which one is NOT a religion? See you don't even have the foggiest clue as to what YOUR bible states because its based on a superior ego god complex and nothing but. Oh and duh your god would not be stupid enough to ---ever--- use text as a form of communication, The worst form of communication possible. Oh and gee, You still cannot even prove that your god or christ even exists. Darn it.
Posted by Debater2018 3 years ago
Debater2018
WW2GuyWhoLikesWW2,

One does not have to twist any of the New Testament in order to make the claim to the next person that they should be 'following my religion' because the New Testament itself teaches that everyone is under obligation to make themselves qualified to obey the commandments pertaining to Christians. Everyone is amenable to the law of Christ, The Gospel in how to be saved, And the doctrine pertaining to Christians.

This is designed to stir up the person locked outside of God. It works. As we can see by this debate and in others that the Con has had in his other debates.

In my debate on the Cosmology issue going on at this website it is very interesting and answers your question about proving God.

If you look closer at my opening argument in this DEBATE you will notice I stated that God IMPLEMENTED the creation. Meaning that we are dealing not with the Godhead, But with His underlings in our troubles. We mere humans are completely outgunned by these forces even though their power has been broken down in increments over time. God has given us the power to break free and stay free through all this Even with the incredible overkill of the super vast universe, We are still the centerpiece of God's intent. .
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@WW2GuyWhoLikesWW2 - "Neither side can prove god does or doesn't exist. " You missed the entire point. But that's not a surprise as you claim yourself to be a christian in which there really is no such a thing as what was pointed out by myself has proven. Its what you believe that matters. And clearly, If you have ultimately read your bible, Then there's no possible way that you can possibly believe in christ ---ever--- unless you chuck aside all of your values as to what you hold near and dear. . . Your families, ALL of your possessions, You'd have to believe in lies, A beautiful bond with racism, Unproved miracles etc etc etc.
Posted by WW2GuyWhoLikesWW2 3 years ago
WW2GuyWhoLikesWW2
Neither side can prove god does or doesn't exist. Just like if you bring a box into the room, There could be a plastic spoon inside. Or there could not be one inside. Whether it sounds ridiculous that that spoon is inside the box or not. Neither can say without opening the box. Opening the box would mean finding a god. If God was real why would he be just for this singular planet out of the trillions of planets there are. Why here, Why wasnt it talked about 2000 years ago. Why not, Inconsistencies in the story are too much. Believing blindly in one direction of either side doesn't make the other person wrong or wrong for thinking it. Just that when people start forcing it on others it's a problem.
Posted by WW2GuyWhoLikesWW2 3 years ago
WW2GuyWhoLikesWW2
Neither side can prove god does or doesn't exist. Just like if you bring a box into the room, There could be a plastic spoon inside. Or there could not be one inside. Whether it sounds ridiculous that that spoon is inside the box or not. Neither can say without opening the box. Opening the box would mean finding a god. If God was real why would he be just for this singular planet out of the trillions of planets there are. Why here, Why wasnt it talked about 2000 years ago. Why not, Inconsistencies in the story are too much. Believing blindly in one direction of either side doesn't make the other person wrong or wrong for thinking it. Just that when people start forcing it on others it's a problem.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
Debater2018backwardsedenTied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Con called Pro a "child" in the last round. This is poor conduct.

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