The Instigator
AlexandreTheThriceGreat
Con (against)
The Contender
Justin108
Pro (for)

If free will existed it would be provable .. (Does free will exist)

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/4/2018 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 391 times Debate No: 113494
Debate Rounds (4)
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AlexandreTheThriceGreat

Con

There must be only one sequence of proofs to truth, within the next number of arguments we shall read them.

deny me thus?
Justin108

Pro

Your entire argument rests on a flawed assumption. How can you be sure that free will would be provable even if it existed? Do you believe it impossible for something to be true without it being provable? If I met George Lucas but couldn't prove it, would that mean that I never met George Lucas?

The inability to prove free will does not, by default, mean it does not exist.
Debate Round No. 1
AlexandreTheThriceGreat

Con

I shall begin by dealing with your argument from the last round:

If you did meet George Lucas you WOULD factually be able to prove it, eg. what he was wearing, what he said, where you were .. you would be able to break the event into rational observations, regardless of if the person you were telling you believed you or not. And indeed I may not believe you whilst you try to prove that you met him, though there would exist a number of statements that would support your claim, however there are no factual statements that can support free will's existence.

To answer your question then, assuming a rational jury, un-biased and neither lenient nor skeptic is the audience, then yes anything that is true, would also be provable.
Conversely it is impossible for something that is false to be provable, thus you won't be able to prove free will's existence.
And I find it unfortunate that you bring the legitimacy of proofs into question, obviously it would only be in the case of CONVINCING a skeptic of a truth that may remain un-provable, in normal circumstances truth is always provable.

Finally I will re-assert my side of this debate:

Free will does NOT exist.

The existence of priori knowledge and a cyclical expansion and contraction of space-time from big bang, to dark matter shattering point to the the universe being a self-contained entity and does not receive any outside influence that may corrupt it's infinite cycle.
Free will cannot exist within a closed cycle of events, such as the laws of thermodynamics.
Free will has never existed as similar to the mobius strip the experience of life may continuously appear to be shifting, though it is the passage of space-time which is the illusion .. take a step back, and instead of imagining yourself the vessel moving around the inside, and then the outside of a mobius strip .. Imagine yourself to be the entire system, simultaneously feeling the vessel or the body experiencing you (as you ARE life) just as you feel life, as the vessel.
I am light, knowledge and action; but I have no choice other than to continue my experience of enlightenment .. just as a water droplet has no choice other than to experience the illusion of choice repetitively at each step of the water cycle, though can never leave nor has any truer influence over the course of events that carve an entire planets ecosystem.

Though I hope for my sanity that you can prove free wills existence ...

having the proof presented to them
Justin108

Pro

"If you did meet George Lucas you WOULD factually be able to prove it, eg. what he was wearing, what he said, where you were .. "
- I can make all this up. I can say he was wearing blue jeans and a brown jacket. I can say he said he wants to have tacos for lunch. I can say I saw him at the grocery store. How would you know if any of the claims I make are true or not? In order to know if I'm telling the truth or not, you would have to know exactly where George Lucas was at the time that I supposedly met him. But without that information, how would you be able to know whether my claim is true? How will I be able to prove my claim?

"And indeed I may not believe you whilst you try to prove that you met him, though there would exist a number of statements that would support your claim"
- I can make various claims about my encounter with George Lucas, but without any supporting evidence, my claims would just be claims. They would not be proof. Some things are simply impossible to prove, even if they were true. Or do you consider my claims as proof that I met George Lucas?

"To answer your question then, assuming a rational jury, un-biased and neither lenient nor skeptic is the audience, then yes anything that is true, would also be provable."
- Neither lenient nor skeptic? Aren't you skeptical about the existence of free will? Clearly you are. If I were to address a non-skeptic and tell him that free will exists, the non-skeptic would believe me (since he is not skeptical). Your argument is self-defeating.
- I had a hotdog for breakfast this morning. How would I go about proving this to you? Would my claim be sufficient proof? If a mere claim is enough to prove that I had a hotdog for breakfast, would the claim that free will exists also be sufficient proof that it exists? If not, why? Why the double standard? Why is a claim enough proof in once instance but not another?
Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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