The Instigator
Conservative_Dem_101
Con (against)
The Contender
Amphia
Pro (for)

Illegal Immigration In California

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/16/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 904 times Debate No: 110858
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (19)
Votes (0)

 

Conservative_Dem_101

Con

What in the hell is wrong with our government officials that they are protecting illegal immigrants interests over its own citizens? I'm seriously dumbfounded!?! These people come here illegally and are given rights!?! What makes Mexicans so special that they can come here illegally while all other immigrants coming to the US have to follow the rules? This debate is open to anyone who has intelligent knowledge of the situation. Please no hate. Objective opinions only please.
Amphia

Pro

Our government certainly does not protect illegal immigrants' rights over its own citizens but if you have some examples that would be great.

Every human being has innate rights, no matter their immigration status.They get rights because they are human. I assume that my opponent is referring to Sanctuary Cities that basically say to illegal immigrants: As long as you're not harming the society, then we're not going to hound for you and try to arrest/deport all of you.

Listen, it's not about being Mexican. Mexicans are not the only people coming into the U.S. illegally. Many people come in on visas and then overstay their visa illegally. We get people from India and Nigeria and China. It's not just Mexico.

What it's really about is that a majority of illegal immigrants contribute to society. They actually do pay taxes, they get jobs, and create jobs in their communties. Most of them don't come here just to sell drugs.

The belief of sanctuary cities is that it's a waste of time/money to try and catch and deport every illegal immigrant. Most of them aren't harming society so using money to get all of them would require a lot of work and the only return is that we have one less illegal immigrant in the country. Which I would say is kind of a waste.

I think that illegal immigrants should be treated on a case-by-case basis. We can't lump them all as bad people who we must get rid of RIGHT NOW. Obviously, the ones harming society must go but we have to realize at the end of the day, these are people. Some of them are families, some of them are breadwinners, some of them are children.
Debate Round No. 1
Conservative_Dem_101

Con

First off, thank you for accepting the challenge Amphia and keeping things civil. Here in California they get a ton of rights including: drivers licences, instate tuition, law and other professional licences, as well as sanctuary cities. Not to mention all of the programs they illegally take advantage of like Social Security and Welfare programs. You can find these points in an article by LA Times under this title. "California gives immigrants here illegally unprecedented rights, benefits, protections"

Look, I understand your position. It's humanitarian and that's great but not at the expense of natives tax dollars and other immigrants who have to wait and come here the right way. It's unfair for both parties. As far as sancuary cities go. They shouldn't even exist. Why have a path to immigration if you have a loophole like sancuary cities where only Mexican's and South American's can utilize cause of their geographic location to the US? Progressives in California over the last 10 years have increasingly placed the so-called "rights" of illegal immigrants over the public safety of its residents. Research conducted by the federal government oversight organization Judicial Water in 2014 documents that 50 percent of all federal crimes were committed near our border with Mexico. Of the 61,529 criminal cases filed by federal prosecutors 40 percent or 24,746 were in court districts along the southern borders of California, Arizona and Texas. Don't know where you got that idea about sancuary cities from? Statistics prove otherwise that sancuary cities harbor violent criminals, a lot of them!

You site that all Mexicans are not the only illegal immigrants that come to the US. Your right people do over stay their visas but that's not the problem. The problem is that nearly 1 and 10 California workers is an undocumented mexican immigrant. 52% of illegal immigrants in the US are from Mexico. Being an electrician in the trades in Southern California I can attest to this. Not saying they are the cause but they definitely are the effect! You see buisness owners would rather hire unskilled illegal immigrants over a skilled native simply because those unskilled workers will take a lot less for the job and are easily controlled. This in turn drives the wages down and hurts our economy. It's absolute bs that skilled workers like myself have to suffer because of this. Since the late 1980's construction pay has gone down 40% because of the influx of illegal immigration into the construction trade. You can google these issues in these articles. LA Times: Immigrants flooded California construction. Worker pay sank. Here's why. The other is by Brietbart News: Whistleblower Says Illegal Aliens Have "Taken over Every Trade" in CA Construction, Driven Down U.S. Wages.

I don't know why you assume that i think all Mexicans are drug dealers? That must be the media painting a picture for you that all Americans think that. It's an ignorant stance. The truth is yes, some do pay taxes but you gotta look at the bigger picture. Most of them are not. If you look at the total taxes paid by illegal immigrants which 18,968,857,700 and then look at the total national cost of having illegal immigrants in the country that number is 134,863,455,364. Add that up and the total cost of having illegal immigrants in this country and what American taxpayers have to fork out is a whopping 116 billion!!! Do you see the problem yet?

The thing about sancuary cities is that they are fundamentally illegal. Its a loophole in the law thst shouldnt exist. It's completely ridiculous that we reward illegal immigrants for breaking the law by giving them sancuary. You site that most illegal immigrants aren't harming society? Well Federal crime statistics seem to think otherwise. Like I said earlier. 40% of all federal crimes in the US come from border towns in the southwest. Do you not see a problem with that? As far as rounding up every illegal immigrant in California, your right it would be a waste of time and resources but, when the feds have a list of illegal immigrants that are violent felons that they are planning on raiding, like what just happened in Oakland we have politicians that are trying to protect them by warning them before the raid. Do you not see that as protecting the rights of illegal immigrants over its own citizens? Because of that warning over 800 illegal immigrants fled the area a lot of them being those violent felons.

The one thing I can 100% agree upon is your last paragraph. Your absolutely right, immigration definitely needs to be held by a case by case basis. In other words we need a merit based immigration system like Switzerland has. We should be letting people come in based off what they can offer to the country. Are you a skilled worker? Do you have a degree? Do you have a criminal history? I think if we move more in this direction and do away with all the rights and privileges California gives to illegal immigrants and make them work for a path to citizenship there will be less animosity towards them. This in time will boost the economy and way of life for a lot of working class Americans because they are no longer competing with unskilled immigrants. The effect of this would be more skilled competition in the work place which results in higher wages and better benefits.
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Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
19 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by ILikePie5 3 years ago
ILikePie5
God Bless You @Conservative_Dem_101
Posted by Conservative_Dem_101 3 years ago
Conservative_Dem_101
Yes a lot of them do get visas and green cards but there's more taking advantage of these programs. There's no denying we have an immigration problem. 116 billion a year to support these programs is a joke!
Posted by Nd2400 3 years ago
Nd2400
Well not all illegal stay illegal. A lot of them get working visas, green cards.
Posted by Conservative_Dem_101 3 years ago
Conservative_Dem_101
The report you referring to is the economic and fiscal consequences of immigration, not illegal immigration.

Thanks though, I will check that one out
Posted by Nd2400 3 years ago
Nd2400
Too bad this debate go any further but i understand why i didn't.

You presented a strong argument. And i glad you could bring it.

Anyway. Furthermore, we have more evidence on why illegal immigrants will bring a positive outlook on the economy.
"first generation adults and their dependents, averaged across 2011-2013, is a cost of $57.4 billion, while second and third-plus generation adults create a benefit of $30.5 billion and $223.8 billion, respectively."(33&34) https://www.nap.edu......

Just for some though.

Oh yeah. I have a debate here you might be interested in...

http://www.debate.org...

It was a good back and forth with each other... Feel free to read it or comment on it.
Posted by Conservative_Dem_101 3 years ago
Conservative_Dem_101
I know it's super frustrating! Do you have something else to bring to the table? I've already detailed my argument pretty well...
Posted by Amphia 3 years ago
Amphia
I am very sorry, the site has a bug and wouldn't allow me to even open the debate to post my argument. If you like, we could redo the debate.
Posted by Conservative_Dem_101 3 years ago
Conservative_Dem_101
Amphia what happened? You never posted your second argument?
Posted by Conservative_Dem_101 3 years ago
Conservative_Dem_101
You are mistaken once again. I never once mentioned 2.1 you did. In reference to the article, there are between 2.35 and 2.6 million illegal immigrants working in California. Your only confusing yourself.

Look you are taking what I say out of context. It's not about the person's race. It's the fact that there is too much illegal immigrants from mexico and south america in California and they are becoming a burden, not only on the tax payers but also the people who work in the construction and manufacturing trades. What's going on is a sophisticated buisness move to cut costs and overhead to maximize profits by hiring unskilled illegal immigrants over skilled American natives. The result was decimation to our unions and pay dropped dramatically. It went from being able to live a comfortable life in the trades to barely being able to get by from a week to week basis. The illegal immigrants can care less about this because they are still making more than they would in Mexico. Meanwhile the only party negatively effected by this is the skilled American natives. Do you not see a problem with this???

Lol for the third time. Your wrong. You need to go back and do some research. 116 billion a year is the total cost of ILLEGAL Immigration in the US. If you wanna bring up how much it costs to have LEGAL Immigration, that number is 279 billion! Add both those numbers up and the total cost per year to have illegal / legal immigration in the US is 395 billion! That's a huge problem that needs to be addressed!

Nd2400 if your gonna continue to comment on my debate, please make sure you know what your talking about.
Posted by Amphia 3 years ago
Amphia
Guys, stop debating in the comments haha. Challenge each other to a debate.
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