The Instigator
Conservative_Dem_101
Con (against)
The Contender
Amphia
Pro (for)

Illegal Immigration In California

Do you like this debate?NoYes+2
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Debate Round Forfeited
Amphia has forfeited round #2.
Our system has not yet updated this debate. Please check back in a few minutes for more options.
Time Remaining
00days00hours00minutes00seconds
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/16/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 905 times Debate No: 110858
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (19)
Votes (0)

 

Conservative_Dem_101

Con

What in the hell is wrong with our government officials that they are protecting illegal immigrants interests over its own citizens? I'm seriously dumbfounded!?! These people come here illegally and are given rights!?! What makes Mexicans so special that they can come here illegally while all other immigrants coming to the US have to follow the rules? This debate is open to anyone who has intelligent knowledge of the situation. Please no hate. Objective opinions only please.
Amphia

Pro

Our government certainly does not protect illegal immigrants' rights over its own citizens but if you have some examples that would be great.

Every human being has innate rights, no matter their immigration status.They get rights because they are human. I assume that my opponent is referring to Sanctuary Cities that basically say to illegal immigrants: As long as you're not harming the society, then we're not going to hound for you and try to arrest/deport all of you.

Listen, it's not about being Mexican. Mexicans are not the only people coming into the U.S. illegally. Many people come in on visas and then overstay their visa illegally. We get people from India and Nigeria and China. It's not just Mexico.

What it's really about is that a majority of illegal immigrants contribute to society. They actually do pay taxes, they get jobs, and create jobs in their communties. Most of them don't come here just to sell drugs.

The belief of sanctuary cities is that it's a waste of time/money to try and catch and deport every illegal immigrant. Most of them aren't harming society so using money to get all of them would require a lot of work and the only return is that we have one less illegal immigrant in the country. Which I would say is kind of a waste.

I think that illegal immigrants should be treated on a case-by-case basis. We can't lump them all as bad people who we must get rid of RIGHT NOW. Obviously, the ones harming society must go but we have to realize at the end of the day, these are people. Some of them are families, some of them are breadwinners, some of them are children.
Debate Round No. 1
Conservative_Dem_101

Con

First off, thank you for accepting the challenge Amphia and keeping things civil. Here in California they get a ton of rights including: drivers licences, instate tuition, law and other professional licences, as well as sanctuary cities. Not to mention all of the programs they illegally take advantage of like Social Security and Welfare programs. You can find these points in an article by LA Times under this title. "California gives immigrants here illegally unprecedented rights, benefits, protections"

Look, I understand your position. It's humanitarian and that's great but not at the expense of natives tax dollars and other immigrants who have to wait and come here the right way. It's unfair for both parties. As far as sancuary cities go. They shouldn't even exist. Why have a path to immigration if you have a loophole like sancuary cities where only Mexican's and South American's can utilize cause of their geographic location to the US? Progressives in California over the last 10 years have increasingly placed the so-called "rights" of illegal immigrants over the public safety of its residents. Research conducted by the federal government oversight organization Judicial Water in 2014 documents that 50 percent of all federal crimes were committed near our border with Mexico. Of the 61,529 criminal cases filed by federal prosecutors 40 percent or 24,746 were in court districts along the southern borders of California, Arizona and Texas. Don't know where you got that idea about sancuary cities from? Statistics prove otherwise that sancuary cities harbor violent criminals, a lot of them!

You site that all Mexicans are not the only illegal immigrants that come to the US. Your right people do over stay their visas but that's not the problem. The problem is that nearly 1 and 10 California workers is an undocumented mexican immigrant. 52% of illegal immigrants in the US are from Mexico. Being an electrician in the trades in Southern California I can attest to this. Not saying they are the cause but they definitely are the effect! You see buisness owners would rather hire unskilled illegal immigrants over a skilled native simply because those unskilled workers will take a lot less for the job and are easily controlled. This in turn drives the wages down and hurts our economy. It's absolute bs that skilled workers like myself have to suffer because of this. Since the late 1980's construction pay has gone down 40% because of the influx of illegal immigration into the construction trade. You can google these issues in these articles. LA Times: Immigrants flooded California construction. Worker pay sank. Here's why. The other is by Brietbart News: Whistleblower Says Illegal Aliens Have "Taken over Every Trade" in CA Construction, Driven Down U.S. Wages.

I don't know why you assume that i think all Mexicans are drug dealers? That must be the media painting a picture for you that all Americans think that. It's an ignorant stance. The truth is yes, some do pay taxes but you gotta look at the bigger picture. Most of them are not. If you look at the total taxes paid by illegal immigrants which 18,968,857,700 and then look at the total national cost of having illegal immigrants in the country that number is 134,863,455,364. Add that up and the total cost of having illegal immigrants in this country and what American taxpayers have to fork out is a whopping 116 billion!!! Do you see the problem yet?

The thing about sancuary cities is that they are fundamentally illegal. Its a loophole in the law thst shouldnt exist. It's completely ridiculous that we reward illegal immigrants for breaking the law by giving them sancuary. You site that most illegal immigrants aren't harming society? Well Federal crime statistics seem to think otherwise. Like I said earlier. 40% of all federal crimes in the US come from border towns in the southwest. Do you not see a problem with that? As far as rounding up every illegal immigrant in California, your right it would be a waste of time and resources but, when the feds have a list of illegal immigrants that are violent felons that they are planning on raiding, like what just happened in Oakland we have politicians that are trying to protect them by warning them before the raid. Do you not see that as protecting the rights of illegal immigrants over its own citizens? Because of that warning over 800 illegal immigrants fled the area a lot of them being those violent felons.

The one thing I can 100% agree upon is your last paragraph. Your absolutely right, immigration definitely needs to be held by a case by case basis. In other words we need a merit based immigration system like Switzerland has. We should be letting people come in based off what they can offer to the country. Are you a skilled worker? Do you have a degree? Do you have a criminal history? I think if we move more in this direction and do away with all the rights and privileges California gives to illegal immigrants and make them work for a path to citizenship there will be less animosity towards them. This in time will boost the economy and way of life for a lot of working class Americans because they are no longer competing with unskilled immigrants. The effect of this would be more skilled competition in the work place which results in higher wages and better benefits.
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 2
This round has not been posted yet.
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 3
19 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 11 through 19 records.
Posted by Nd2400 3 years ago
Nd2400
First of all it only 2.1 millions you mention first. And thats total. Now it 2.6 million in the work force. I think you could see why im confused. Right?

Second. Think about it. It every race take could advantage of other races if they the only one. If you a white person working with nothing but Asian. They would take advantage. Same with a block person working with just whites. So it not really all bs.

You also misread your information is 116 billion is for every immigrants not just illegals. Anyways thank you...
Posted by Conservative_Dem_101 3 years ago
Conservative_Dem_101
Nd2400 I never said to lock them up. Please don't assume that's my stance. 2.6 million undocumented immigrants makes up nearly a 1/4 of California's workforce. That doesn't seem high to you?

I don't know where your theory of giving illegal immigrants drivers licenses comes from but that's not the reason at all. The law aimed to ease deportation fears while also aimed at cutting the hit and run rates. Your right jail should be for criminals. Murders, rapists, kidnappers etc. I never put illegal immigrants in this catagory. Please don't take what I say out of context. You say that illegal immigrants benefit the economy more than hurt it? Well take a look at the statistics. It's laid out in my arguement. The total national cost of having illegal immigration in the US is 116 billion! Illegal immigration is hurting our economy and the statistics prove it! Now as I face palm myself over that last comment that you wrote about American's don't want those jobs anyways. Did you not read that I'm in the construction trade?!? I work these jobs and a lot of other US born natives without a college degree work these jobs! Back in the day my dad tried working out in the strawberry fields in Oxnard, CA. You want to know his experience? All the mexicans would steal his boxes when he wasn't looking and yell racist obsentities towards him. They showed him nothing but hate and made it very clear they did not want him there. By the way, he was a hippy surfer. So to say that Americans don't want these jobs is total a bs cop out. Mexicans in these industries don't want American competition. One thing you are right about is that if there is a wage boom surely inflation will rise with it. Can't argue that. What I can argue is that if the construction industry had a strong union, like it did before the immigration boom in the late 80's. Life would be a lot more comfortable, even with an inflation rise. Read the article I posted in my initial argument that dwells into this.
Posted by Nd2400 3 years ago
Nd2400
Okay. I could respect your finding.

So, 2.1 millions are illegal in the state of California. That number might seem high, but when take into account California have over 39.5 millions. Then that 2.1 is kind of small.

The other bigger issue with your argument is this. You want to jail these individuals for minor infractions. This is why California give them Id, and driver licenses, among others. Because it just wasn't worth it to lock them up for minor offenses. Putting people in jail should be for murders, rapist, kidnapping, stealing, money laundering, treason, selling drugs, etc. For serious crimes. Plus illegal immigrants has good benefit for the economy. Because illegals work for less money in the industry like agriculture, farming, and construction. Most Americans would not work for these jobs. Unless they pay higher. So, even if America did work these jobs for higher pay. Then also means everything will go up.

Oh yeah, by the way "Most South American immigrants obtained lawful permanent residence in the United States (also known as receiving a green card) through family ties."https://www.migrationpolicy.org......

Anyways good luck in your debate....
Posted by Conservative_Dem_101 3 years ago
Conservative_Dem_101
blamonkey an opinion can be objective by sticking to the facts.
Posted by Conservative_Dem_101 3 years ago
Conservative_Dem_101
Nd2400 here is a link from a reputable data agency that lays out all undocumented migration in the US. This includes all nations.
https://www.migrationpolicy.org...

Heres another link by another reputable data agency that further back up what I'm saying in my intial argument with Amphia.
Undocumented Immigrants in California - Public Policy Institute of California
http://www.ppic.org...
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
R1: "Objective opinions only please."
dictionary.cambridge.org/amp/english/objective
I'm curious. How can an opinion be objective? It doesn't seem that a debate predicated on such flimsy rules could possibly work. If you mean to say that opinions should be substantiated, then I would agree.
Posted by Nd2400 3 years ago
Nd2400
My stat isn't wrong for the country. By the way where is your proof?
Posted by Conservative_Dem_101 3 years ago
Conservative_Dem_101
Nd2400 if you would have read the title it clearly states illegal immigration in California not the US. Your statistics are wrong though. At #1 Latin America makes up 78% of the illegal population in the US. Mexico is second with 52%. In California though as of 2014, Mexico leads the pact with 71%. Nearly 1 and 10 California workers is undocumemted. Because of this influx in illegal immigration it has decimated the contraction trade, in which I work. I can't make a decent living because I have to compete with these individuals who will take a lot less for the job. My point is why should native born workers have to suffer? If your here legally then fine I have absolutely no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is wage decimation and that directly correlates with illegal immigration and shady buisness tactics. Even my native born mexican coworkers have an issue with this. They are pissed as well. California liberals really need to educate themselves on this issue.
Posted by Nd2400 3 years ago
Nd2400
Just so you know illegal immigrants from Mexico is only 1/4 of the population of illegals. There are over 43 millions. And only 11.5 millions are Mexico. Actually they rank second, only to south and central Asia. They have 11.6 millions. So i think you blaming Mexican for everything is misguided. http://www.pewhispanic.org...
This debate has 2 more rounds before the voting begins. If you want to receive email updates for this debate, click the Add to My Favorites link at the top of the page.

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use.