The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
The Contender
AKmath2
Con (against)

Imagine

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/23/2019 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 506 times Debate No: 120977
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (9)
Votes (0)

 

backwardseden

Pro

Imagine
John Lennon. . .

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky

Imagine all the people
Living for today (ah ah ah)

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, Too

Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man

Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=VOgFZfRVaww - John Lennon - Imagine
Clearly, The song is about worldwide peace and the ways to achieve it. He's right. Prove him wrong by disproving this song, The worlds greatest song ever created in my humble opinion. Yeah. I've probably heard A LOT more songs that you have.

dsjpk5 is disqualified from the voting procedures as he tries to pretend he's god and thus change the voting structure of who wins and loses here on DDO.
AKmath2

Con

Hey man nice to be back. Look I love the Beatles but not so much after they broke up. Hey Jude, The Yellow Submarine are some of my favorites. Look the lyrics seem nice and all but to me they seem like a recipe for transnationalist communism. It also undermines many things that are important to society as a whole.
Verse 4, Nothing to kill or die for. . .
There will always be bad people.
Verse 5, Imagine all the people living life in peace
Look I want everyone to live in happiness and peace too, But again there are bad people out there.
Verse 6, The world will be as one. . . This fully proves my assumption that he was a transnationalsit (someone who believes the Earth should be one big super nation)

Verse 7, No need for greed. . . .
Humans are greedy, All animals are, There"s nothing you can do to stop that.

Anyway, Again nice to see you and nice to be back. FYI my other account wasn"t just malfunctioning, So I created this one.

-AKmath2 (originally AKmath)
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

What is transnationalist? There's no such a word. So I have no idea what you are trying to yak about. And then trying to display it with - communism? I mean that sounds like a boring Oprah VS Phil Donahue VS Dinah Shore show competition without their beauty marks as all these hosts of daytime stand apart in their squares as monarchs pay them as danceable chess pieces.

What you are doing is mentioning what people are and do and the scum that people wipe their noses in. Don't you think that John knew that with all the ours that he did, With all that he saw? Duh. What the song Imagine did was "Imagine".
Nothing to kill or die for. . .
War. The thirst for blood. The Vietnam war was in full swing at the time of John's life. He saw it all. Bodies upon bodies stacked neatly on top of each other. Now why should man WANT to kill or die for anything except for precious few things like protecting your family from a maggot who wants to kill your family especially your kid? But let's suppose that crap is no longer taking place. Let's suppose that all that crap is completely erased from the human steel brain?

And its backed up by
Verse 5, Imagine all the people living life in peace
"Look I want everyone to live in happiness and peace too, But again there are bad people out there. " And you ruin it because who cares? This song isn't about reality. This song is about hope. That's a huge monumental difference.

Verse 6, The world will be as one. . . "This fully proves my assumption that he was a transnationalsit (someone who believes the Earth should be one big super nation)" You can't make up words to suit your wants, Needs and desires which is what so-called christians have a super nasty habit of doing. And that verse in which is repeated is a lot bigger than that. Now you think about what else it entails.

Verse 7, No need for greed. . . .
"Humans are greedy, All animals are, There"s nothing you can do to stop that. " There you go again being the super duper pessimist that you are. This song is about hope. Not about rabid corrosive battery acid eating away at your insides as you think of it as. "No NEED for greed. " John's right. There is no NEED for greed. There's no requirement, No necessity for greed. Greed is a silly conception. Just like jealousy from the christian unproven god is a silly conception.
AKmath2

Con

P. S. I don't think you have access to a valid accurate dictionary as the word "transnationalism" is in Merriam-Webster and Dictionary. Com to name a few.
Merriam Webster def. - extending or or going beyong national boundaries

Look I understand it's a dream and an imaginative world as the name suggests. But that's exactly it John admits it himself, This world is a dream, A fantasy, An imagination if you will. This world would never work and suit the desires of man. I personally wouldn't really consider myself as a pessimist neither an optimist, A pessimist always believes the worst version of an event will most likely happen, I'm rather stating what's already happening. If you wivll I'm telling the truth which is that our world is far from perfect. Here's my detailed view on every line if you will.

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
- Okay I'm imagining this, But what does this really do? Disporive religion or something? If his dream world is where nobody believes in religion, Then that's sort of violating freedom of thought, But I admit this argument is a but far-fetched.

Imagine all the people
Living for today (ah ah ah)
- I agree, While it's important to plan for the future it's more important to live day by day.

Imagine there's no countries - #Transnationalist #TransnationalismIsAWord
It isn't hard to do - Yeah it really isn't, But then we'de have open borders and again we'd have one super big ungovernable
country
Nothing to kill or die for - Why would there be nothing to kill or die for? If he's talking about Vietnam then I agree, Useless immoral proxy wars are not okay, But sometimes military intervention is called for. And for wars maybe, But it's impossible to stop all crime and criminals, This is more than a dream. Add of course there are three things I, And I hope everyone else would die for too, My family, My Country (Air Force Pilot 5 years), And My religion.
And no religion, Too - Okay so let's ban freedom of thought as well while we're at it.

Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
- China, Russia, North Korea/every communist + socialist nation

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us - A conservative republican hippie, Don't really go together, I feel like it would be akward for me
to join
And the world will be as one - Again, Transnationalist
- You are a dreamer, And you are the only one as in one elses dreams can this fantasy world exist.

Imagine no possessions - Ah, A communist as well, Doesn;t believe in private property rights.
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger - Greed can be good in most scenarios as it can lead people to be more ambitious in whatever
they're doing. I'm a partner at my firm because of my desire and greed you can call it to be one of the best at what I do.
A brotherhood of man

Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world - Again, Private proprety, My Mercedes Maybach is mine, Not yours, And certainly not anyone else's, But MINE!
Debate Round No. 2
backwardseden

Pro

P. S. I don't think you have access to a valid accurate dictionary as the word "transnationalism" That's not the word you used. You might want to check up on that to see exactly which word you used was which does not exist in any dictionary.

Now let's move on because we're going to skip everything you've stated in your most recent argument except for a very select few things because "Here's my detailed view on every line if you will. " that doesn't work.

It doesn't work, Not ever because you support the worst president of all time, Namely Donald fuzzy bunny slippers toilet dust Trump, Because he has soooooo many things in common with the god of the bible, Claims he believes in the god of the bible but if you look at the tells he gives off every single time he mentions this, There's no possible way that he does as he places himself above the god of the bible and you yourself believes in the god of the bible in which cae John Lennon mist certainly did not, Not ever believe in the god of the bible and would be horrified of Donald piece of s--t Trump. Pe-IR-OD. So this being said, There's absolutely no possible way that you can get into the mind and soul of John Lennon, What he thought and dreamed about and how to achieve his dreams and ideals. You support the god of the bible for christ sake! A known terrorist according to the bible itself, And yet you cannot even prove this god of ---YOURS--- even exists! AND EVEN WORSE according to your profile you make over $150, 000 annually. My god, What would you do at the poverty level? What would you do if you were to actually experience true horrific suffering? You have no idea, None, What true horrific suffering is, None. You fully support military action, War.

Everything you've stated in your interpretations of "Imagine" was negative once again. Everything in the song "Imagine" song is hopeful. Look, If you cannot be hopeful, Then don't even bother. K?

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
"If his dream world is where nobody believes in religion, Then that's sort of violating freedom of thought, But I admit this argument is a but far-fetched. " It doesn't violate the freedom of thought. Wow. How does it because John doesn't make it a LAW for you to not "Imagine". And it is far fetched to get rid of religion. However, Its the ONLY way this world will live in peace + the dumping of a few other things as Imagine clearly mentions.

Imagine there's no countries OK I'm not going to look up words that don't exist and use a simple spell check.
It isn't hard to do - "Yeah it really isn't, But then we'de have open borders and again we'd have one super big ungovernable
country" OK I'm now ending this debate because that's exactly what your unproven god wants according to your ragweed bible. Thankfully it ain't gonna happen, Otherwise it already would have happened. Yep according to you, Your god cannot or somehow will not govern this entire planet at any time in the near or even distant future. Bye.
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by killshot 3 years ago
killshot
@backwards - Have you ever heard Chris Cornell's cover of this song? It's my personal fav.
Posted by EzDuel 3 years ago
EzDuel
Living in peace is content. Being content is only discontent to those not content. Those not content are wanting something. People again, Can not exist without separate influences defining them. Peace is death and before birth hahaha maybe a dreamless sleep no associations.
Posted by EzDuel 3 years ago
EzDuel
Nothing to kill or die for and stating no possessions implies detachment. People are defined by their attachments. As long as there are people, There is strife. Could he still call them people in the end? He did say living as one, So they would not be separate egos. Without egos, We are one. Seems like a very Buddhist message.

The overall message is universal ego destruction. It's a "dreamer" message indeed. I love the song. People think they are who they define themselves through experience and actions as.

Yes it is about peace, He destroyed all of the ideas behind struggles from the world and connected everyone in to one. The absolute peace.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@SickInTheHeadz - Yeah I think its a very good topic. And you are correct to NOT accept it. No, That in no possible way is an offense to you and or your character. Please continue to be who you are and not someone who is fake and fraudulent as so so so many of the teens who think they are christians but are really not.
Posted by SickInTheHeadz 3 years ago
SickInTheHeadz
Someone should really accept this debate. It is such a good topic.
I would accept it, But I wouldn't be able to make honest arguments against the song, As I am so in favor of it.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@SickInTheHeadz - Yeah all rolled up in one, Just one song as to how man can and should get along better not only with himself but with the planet.
Imagine there's no heaven
Implies that there's no mythical heaven that all religions state that there is, An eternal place of an afterlife, Happiness and eternal peace. But wait, If this is true why wouldn't we all kill ourselves just so we can be in this place? Makes no sense. And then there would be free will of course. But if there's free will there, Then its god(s) would have the toggle switch to have free will on earth to do good all the time and would imply this god(s) is a true evil bastard.

Everything else yeah, I think you hit it right on the head. What a great song.

I am truly ashamed that when I was a kid my best friend at that time called me to tell me of John's assignation and I didn't give a rats bahooey. Pathetic. Now, Wow, There's so much depth, Class, Ideals that cannot be argued against unless there's a true morbid sense of idiocy and stupendous stupidity from a person who truly has no morality whatsoever and is a complete and total sociopath and psychopath. These people are pure garbage and they ruin society like the bubonic plague.

Thank you very much for your input. It is very much appreciated. Please always tc and have fun. -Michael
Posted by SickInTheHeadz 3 years ago
SickInTheHeadz
"Imagine there's no heaven"
This implies that there is no imaginary rewards for our deeds, And that we don't need imaginary rewards to be good people.

"No hell below us"
This implies that we don't need punishments to be good people.

"Above us only sky"
This implies that we can focus on this life and to do good deeds in this life rather than to focus on what imaginary God thinks of us.

"Imagine there's no countries
Nothing to kill or die for"
This implies that people often go to war and kill each other for reasons that are meaningless and unjustifiable By removing borders and war-causing values we can become better people.

"Imagine no possessions"
"No need for greed or hunger"
This implies that problems like poverty could be solved if people who had extra money shared with those who don't have.

It's very hard to argue against this song. It is not only well written, But meaningful and sounds good.
And if someone accepts to debate against this song, He should do so with respect to the truths that this song holds, And not just reject it all as bad or unrealistic.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@Zifsha. 2 - Why don't you learn to READ rather than being the typical 15 year old schmuck that you knowingly are. Its perfectly stated in the lyrics and below. I used to be ---exactly like you when I was 15. I didn't care about one god damned thing. Though you might not be into the same things that I was, I was into heavy metal music, Listened to Judas Priest, Deep Purple, Hawkwind, Magnum and I still do except for Judas Priest. But because I respect music so much I grew our of heavy metal and listen to all genre now except for grunge. At that time I couldn't have cared less who John Lennon was. When he got assassinated my best friend called me and I couldn't have cared less. Now, Especially with his Imagine, John was a true genius. Perhaps if you are into music, You'll figure it out.
Posted by Zifsha.2 3 years ago
Zifsha.2
Um no offence but what is the point in this debate? I don't understand the point
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