The Instigator
breaktherules
Pro (for)
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The Contender
DBThenerd1987
Con (against)
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Is Feminism necessary?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/12/2018 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 648 times Debate No: 112674
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (0)

 

breaktherules

Pro

YES, It was born for human equality but women are still seen as weaker. Obviously our society needs Feminism and some people don't see the reality or maybe they just don't want to face this problem.
Even though laws say that women and men are treated equally, this never happens. In many countries, many women aren't paid as much as men, they can't do some of men's jobs, why?
Now try to change my mind.
DBThenerd1987

Con

Feminism. The great equalizer of the 60s - 80s. It was one of the best movement's to exist in America. It got women their rights, it got gay people accept, but is it time for it to stop? Personally, I'd say yes.
Now the reason I say this is because Feminism has become what the internet calls cancer. It's unneeded and doesn't even make any actual accomplishments. I'll explain with some recent (Past 2 or 3 years or so) things feminism was against.
1: ManSplitting. To explain, feminist thought that when a guy sits down and spreads his legs so, you know, he doesn't crush his testicles, was sexist. Why? Because the man was trying to be dominant and take up as much space as possible. Do you see the two main problems with it? Hopefully, you do. 1st, how is this any different from a women putting her purse or bag beside her when she sit's down. It sometimes takes up more space than a guy sitting down on a cramped train, however, feminists don't see a problem with this seemingly being sexist just by choosing to have a problem with men, but not women.
2nd The guy is just trying to be comfortable and doesn't even take up much space. Yes, there are sometimes when a guy will spread his legs very wide when people don't have a place to sit but feminists don't talk about the majority who don't do this. 3rd how is this a sexist issue? While annoying yes, it has nothing to do with women. Feminists speak of this issue as if men are doing it to hurt women but they overlook the fact it is an inconvenience to men also.
2: ManSplaining. This is when a man interrupts a woman. You may think we already have a word for that, and you'd be right. It's called interrupting. However, when a men do it to women, it's sexist because... I'll have the other guy try to explain that away in his next turn, or not cover it and forfeit a win on that topic. Anyways, this was covered a lot in the election of 16, because Trump is a dominant person and interrupts a lot. Feminist called this sexist because Trump is a sexist and rapist... even though there is no proof of rape besides baseless accusations. Anyways to end this I'll just say this wasn't a sexist issue. Interruption isn't sexism. what is sexism is saying men are sexist for doing something that even feminist do. That's a recurring issue in feminism, calling something or someone sexist even though it's not sexist, causing themselves to be sexist.
For the last part of my essay/speech, I would like to ask for my opponent to gives some things that feminism is doing good for now. This is voluntary, my opponent does not have to do this, but it will benefit him if he does. I am DB for Prager University. (Just kidding but my speech is over)
Debate Round No. 1
breaktherules

Pro

I see where you are going with your speech, and I can also tell you that I might agree with some of your points. But I want our debate to focus on things that matter and not only on worthless ideas. I will explain myself. You gave me some examples of how you think feminists are sexist and men-haters themselves, which to me sounds pretty stupid. As I already said feminism does not mean that men are disgusting nor that women hate them; men can be feminists too.

Now, you mentioned man-splitting and man-splaining. I really do not see how a man sitting with his legs spread, just because he takes up more space, can be seen as sexist. So I will have to agree with you.
Sometimes, people assume that feminists use slogans and harsh words to offend men, to decrease their "power". It is just a way to let the world know they exist, that feminism needs to exist.
As you asked at the end, I would like to give you some things that feminism is doing good and how it is still helping women.
I want you to believe me, I want you to believe that YES, feminism is still necessary.

1. First of all, it clears our mind. Being a feminist has nothing to do with what you wear, how you look or who you hang out with; being a feminist does not mean that women deserve special rights, just equal ones.
As you may or may not know, feminism was created also to empower women, but this does not mean that feminists see them as weak or less important than men. They already know that women are strong.

There are some people, probably you too, who think that feminism in something from the past and so, it should stay in the past. There are many things that feminists from the past have taught us.

2. So many women nowadays, feel like they have the same opportunities that men have. If it wasn't for all the movements this would not have been possible.

Now this is why we need feminism.
We need feminism because in a relationship, the woman is still seen as the weakest.
We need feminism because society still sees a woman as someone who should stay at home, clean the house, take care of the children, do the washing every single day.
We need feminism because people tell us that women can"t have a successful career, or have a job that apparently would be more suited to a man.
We need feminism because when two people get married, the one who has to change surname is the woman.
We need feminism because when girls grow up, they still have to pay attention to useless ideas that society is giving them.
For example, why do we tell them that boys can"t cry?
Or that girls will never be good at maths?
We need feminism because rapes are often not treated as they should be.
We need feminism because the whole world is sexist.
We need feminism just like we need to stop racism.
We simply need it.
DBThenerd1987

Con

As you had said, I see where you're going, but the road your heading down is a dead end. Not just a dead end, but the road leads you off a cliff. To explain this I'll summarize your rebuttal, people need feminism because they FEEL like need it, or they FEEL it can help stop stuff like racism. You see that capitalized word? It says feel. The mindset of feminism. Throughout your ENTIRE speech, you did not mention 1 time that feminism (3rd wave (past decade) at least) has done any good. All you have said is that feminism helps women FEEL less insignificant, or stuff like that.

Now as we established already you haven't pointed out anything that feminist actually do. So let me point out what they do, but it's not what you expect. Brian Branks. Does that name sound familiar? He was kinda famous for a while. You know why? He was in jail for 6 years for a crime he didn't commit. What was the crime? Rape, except he wasn't a rapist. So why do I bring this up? Well, a known feminist was the one who accused him. She would go to marches and do stuff like read speeches at her college about racism.

So why does this matter? It's just one feminist. Well, It's happened more than once for one, and two, that's 1 bad, to 0 good. Besides that on to the next topic, a touchy one. Abortion. Feminist are known for advocating for it. Now I'm pro-life obviously, but why? Because a Fetus can look like a human at just 5 weeks, and when getting aborted FEEL PAIN! Now have little time for this part so I won't have a conclusion but in California Feminist advocate for halfway born abortions! Where the baby is almost born but is killed!
Debate Round No. 2
breaktherules

Pro

First I want to start off by talking about abortion, the last topic you mentioned. You said that feminists are known for advocating for it and that's right, I agree with you but I don't when you say all the feminists think so. Do you want an example? Me. I absolutely think feminism is something we needed and we still need in this society, but you know what? I'm pro-life too. Not all the people have to think in the same way and they can believe in different things. Most of the feminists think that every woman should do what they want with their bodies, but I think it stops when it involves another human being, even if it's just a fetus. But, we were talking about feminism, not abortion, so let's leave it aside.

You said people just FEEL like they need feminism and all is just idealistic and not about real actions. But if you say that it just means you're blind.

Feminism is born for the equality between the sexes, as we all now and as you said too, and it brought to real facts.
If you want to analise some of the things feminism has really accomplished, you can go on this website: https://mic.com....

But I still want to add some of the most important success feminism has achieved:
1. a woman"s right to vote: some people take it for granted, but American women were given this right one hundred years ago, and it wasn"t just "given". Did you know Alice Paul? She is one of the founding feminists. She struggled for this pourpose and forced herself to endure a hunger strike while she was imprisoned just for being a suffragette and for fighting for the right to vote. She wasn't the only one and it's thank to these feminists that now women can vote

2. the Civil Rights movement: feminists actually played a large roll in this movement during the 1960s. Everyone, both white women, black women and black men, was fed up by being placed in worse working conditions than white men and with being paid less than them. Obviously, Civil Rights is about far more than just equal pay. But the inequality in the workforce pushed white and black feminists to work together for each other"s equality.

3. feminism will always fight for your right to be an comfortable in your own skin. Feminists struggle to help people love themself. Because of feminism, we have movements like Dove's campaign for Real Beauty, that use models of all shapes and sizes and races, and communicate the idea that things like cellulite or stretch marks are all normal and beautiful.
Feminism just wants to sell us self-love.

Of course, feminism has done so much more than this, not just in America, but all over the world. Maybe you personally don't need the concept that men and women should be equal because you already feel equal.
However, keep in mind that when you say you don't need feminism, you're denying the fact that there are women who do.
Instead of focusing on your personal, individual experience, look at things from a global level. Women are still being oppressed. Gender stereotypes still exist. Don"t give up on the movement because it already got you where you needed to be.
DBThenerd1987

Con

Okay, this is funny since you obviously didn't get my last argument. First, you go on and say how YOUR pro-life and a feminist, so that means that not all feminists are pro-choice, which is stupid. The majority of feminists are pro-choice, so my argument stands. You can't say that 1 out of ten people doesn't believe something, then treat them as if none of them believe it.

Next, you bring up stuff I already brought up! I have no idea why you did this because I already agree with you feminism has accomplished a lot. However, instead of facing my argument head-on, you skirt around it. Your hiding behinds the movement's origins, what it HAD stood for. When I say feminism doesn't do good you say, hey remember the 60?s you remember that? When neither of us was born? Feminist did a lot back then. That is all you have said and I have agreed with you, so I have no idea why you bring it up.

Now the next part may anger some feminist, you have misgendered me, you sexist, transphobic scum. You seem to assume I'm a guy you sexist. Now, does that sound like me feeling better "In my own skin"? or does it sound like the ramblings of a lunatic? Probably the latter. The way feminist help people feel better "In there own skin" Is by saying that if someone insults you there sexist.

Next, you say I don't think we need feminism because I feel equal already. Well, I don't feel that all are equal, because we are all equal, in America at least. Now, at the end of your speech, you say women all over the world of oppressed and they need feminism to help them! Bull. I know from experience most (Remember that you believing something doesn't change the word, MOST!) feminist I've talked to don't care about the oppression in Africa or anywhere else. When I say why do you care about a wage gap that's been debunked 20 thousand times when women are being murdered for not wearing a hijab, they say, they're not oppressed, they're okay with that. Now once again you can't disprove this, and actually gave me evidence for this! Not once in all three of your speeches have you talked about anything feminists have done to help people outside of America. Now voters (which there will be none of because no one cares) remember, who gave you the facts, and who told you about why people feel should be the facts.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by BackCommander 3 years ago
BackCommander
You pointing out that men are feminists in no way counters the fact that feminism is for women and women only. Feminism absolutely does mean equality of the sexes, and by that I mean "the advocacy of women's rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes" that's the definition of feminism. Its about bringing women up to the same level as men, which was accomplished long ago, at least in most first world countries.

I don't know where you live, but I live in America, and no feminist I've ever met has been able to tell me a single legal right a man has that a woman doesn't. If you were to reply to that I am absolutely certain you would say that feminism isn't about legal rights, its about the way society treats and views women, right? That's the whole point, others thoughts aren't yours to police. If a man thinks all women are morons, that's his right. While most of us disagree with him, it isn't our place to try to silence him.

To end this I'd like to point out that everyone can voice their opinion all the want but your movement wants to force others to conform to feminist beliefs, which just leads to a big NO from society as a whole. Now, the real problem is feminists' refusal to accept actual provable facts about reality. Men, on average, are physically stronger than women. Girls, on average, do better than boys at math and science courses. We're inherently different, attempting to convince society that we aren't is simply dishonest and ignorant.

Bonus points: The pink tax is just a marketing strategy because women are willing to buy more expensive items. The wage gap isn't real, its an earnings gap and it exists because of men being more willing to work dangerous jobs (higher pay) are more aggressive about promotions and raises, and are more willing to work longer hours and trade family time for work time. The 1 out of 5 rape statistic comes from only two universities through an online survey that rewarded completing it with a free gift card. Feminist l
Posted by breaktherules 3 years ago
breaktherules
Feminism is not only for women, because feminism means believing in equality between the sexes. How do you explain all these famous male celebrities who stand for women rights? Take for example
1. Daniel Radcliffe who said "I'm a feminist, just by the virtue of the fact that I believe in equal rights for everyone"
2. John Legend: "All men should be feminists. If men care about women"s rights the world will be a better place... We are better off when women are empowered " it leads to a better society."
3. Prince Harry who claimed "When women are empowered, they immeasurably improve the lives of everyone around them " their families, their communities, and their countries. This is not just about women, we men need to recognize the part we play too. Real men treat women with dignity and give them the respect they deserve."
And there are many more .
Posted by DBThenerd1987 3 years ago
DBThenerd1987
NO feminism is only for women. Feminist always have problems with men, but never with women.
Posted by breaktherules 3 years ago
breaktherules
If you mean that Feminism is only for women, you've wrong because there are many men who are actually feminists and they just believe in The equality of The sexes and not in The superiority of women.
So women and men can both be feminists. What you said doesn't have a point.
Posted by RMTheSupreme 3 years ago
RMTheSupreme
For women yes, for men no.
No votes have been placed for this debate.

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