The Instigator
byaka2013
Con (against)
The Contender
divergent_ambon
Pro (for)

Is God Real?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/24/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 475 times Debate No: 102759
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

byaka2013

Con

This debate will have several rules, which my opponent shall agree to.

  1. No ad hominem attacks. You can attack the argument, but not the person.

  2. God- (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being. Judeo Christian being.

  3. Constructive and empirical evidence.

  4. No looping or repetitive arguments.

  5. The burden of proof is on my opponent as they are making the positive claim.

  6. Begin your proof in round 1.

  7. Please do not forfeit any of the debate. If you must, message me and an extension will be granted.

Good luck to my opponent.

divergent_ambon

Pro

The existence of "God" is ontologically self-evident. God is simply the greatest reality in the universe, whatever that may be, even the universe itself. Now, the question is then the nature of this being, which is really the point of this debate. The God of this debate is that of the Abrahamic religions.

As we are not arguing for a particular God in the Abrahamic religions, we are also not arguing for a particular religion. However, this concept of God has to fit within Abrahamic constructs.

The arguments for the nature of God are then four-fold

1) Boltzmann Brain Paradox

2) Dawkins' Evolution Argument

3) Occam's Razor

4) Origins of Monotheism as Panentheistic


1) Boltzmann Brain Paradox

The Boltzmann brain is an interesting paradox. Intelligence is necessary for understanding the universe, but the other complex parts of the mind that we physically have, are not. Ludwig Boltzmann proposed that, in the state of the universe which we have now, it is far more likely for a mind to appear through random fluctuation in out low entropy universe than to have evolved through the processes which we see to reach the many minds that we have today. In other words, the mind is more likely to randomly arise from the universe than be slowly evolved in biological life on a planet. http://escholarship.org...

Proposition One: Boltzmann brains are the most likely origin of mind in the universe

2) Dawkins Evolution Argument
In his book The God Delusion, Richard Dawkins argues that the great is more likely to evolve from the small instead of suddenly existing. He likens this to a man walking up a small slope instead of jumping to the top of a hundred foot cliff in order to get to the summit. In other words, the great most likely occurs from the small through gradual change.

Proposition Two: Small changes accumulate to larger results more often than larger results simply occurring

3) Occam's Razor
Putting this together, then, the most likely occurrence of the mind is from random variance and fluctuation of our universe or a precursor to it. Then, alone, the Boltzmann Brain would have continued to slowly grow. The fluctuation of one mind is a far more likely than the highly unlikely evolution of billions of minds we see today. It is far simpler and involves far fewer variables. Left alone, it then can grow to become the greatest mind in the universe, encompassing all of it.

Proposition Three: The most likely and simplest origin of the mind is a Boltzmann Brain slowly evolving in fluctuation. As it is on its own, it then can grow to encompass the entire universe.

4) The Panentheistic Origins of Monotheism
Historically, monotheism developed from a kind of panentheism and henotheism. Obviously, the Abrahamic religions all extended from Judaism. So this concept of God, the organizer of the universe who is also a part of it, must fit in the Abrahamic context for it to be applicable to this debate. It, in fact, absolutely does. In Genesis 1, the first Creation story of the Tanach, we find creation through בָּרָא. Bara is Hebrew, not for Ex Nihilo creation, but for an organization of pre-existing matter. ( http://biblehub.com...;) Further, the chaos waters, תְה֑וֹם, are pre-existent in this story, not being created. ( http://biblehub.com...;) In this then, the origin of God through fluctuation and an evolution of a Boltzmann brain fits quite well. God is part of the universe and organizes it. It does not create from nothing.

Proposition Four: This concept of God expanded upon in propositions 1-3 is consistent with Abrahamic monotheism.


Conclusion

Putting this all together:

1) The Boltzmann Brain Paradox portrays that in modern physics, the simplest way for a mind to form is through fluctuation in a low entropy universe like our own or a precursor to our own

2) The simplest was for something complex to form is through development

3) Therefore, the simplest way for a complex mind to form is through a slowly developing Boltzmann Brain

4) This concept is in line with ideas of Abrahamic Monotheism

Therefore, God exists.
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Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by John_C_1812 1 year ago
John_C_1812
The establishment of GOD has already been proved. As religious and not religious in the form of Axiom. What you are asking by the use of additional rules is to have proved that your GOD exist, not that a GOD exists. There need not be a transfer of ownership in the Constitutional establishment under judicial separation. Who"s GOD does not matter it is that there is a GOD that can seek representation. That is all that counts.
Posted by Phenenas 1 year ago
Phenenas
@PowerPikachu21 They still haven't fixed that? Good golly.
Posted by PowerPikachu21 1 year ago
PowerPikachu21
If you time out, the debate freezes forever. Just a heads up.
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