The Instigator
godrulz
Pro (for)
Winning
6 Points
The Contender
BGreeneID
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Is God timeless or does He experience endless time?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
godrulz
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/12/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,418 times Debate No: 100837
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (33)
Votes (2)

 

godrulz

Pro

The traditional view suggests that God is strongly immutable, impassible, timeless, etc. Not all tradition is truth. I would suggest this view came later and is from Plato, Augustine, Aristotle, Aquinas, Boethius, etc. I would suggest that endless time (duration, sequence, succession) is Hebraic, biblical, coherent and will have implications for omniscience, foreknowledge, prayer, etc. Related issues of Einstein/relativity, etc. factor in, but are measures and perceptions of time the same as philosophical, fundamental time?

For theists and secular philosophers, this is a wide open, technical debate. From a Christian view, I would agree more with Nicholas Wolterstorff, J.R. Lucas, etc. with William Lane Craig's view of timeless before creation/temporal after creation being better than strictly timeless views.

Biblical support exists, but godly philosophy/thinking will also be necessary to have an informed view since the Bible is not explicit on all theological/philosophical issues.
BGreeneID

Con

there is no god. religion is a disgusting cult
Debate Round No. 1
godrulz

Pro

Why are there so many immature, ignorant, arrogant people ruining debates. Finish responding, so I can start again with a mature person who sticks to the topic.

IF there was a God, would He be timeless or temporal? Even atheistic philosophers are interested in this question.
BGreeneID

Con

There is no god, therefore your debate is just another disgusting attempt to instill religion on a secular site. Why do YOU have to troll us with this nonsense?
Debate Round No. 2
godrulz

Pro

Saying there is no God is a claim that you are not making argumentation for. I did not know this is a secular site since it has a philosophy and religion section that theists would have a place at the table to make an argument. The debate is not about whether God exists, but is for those who would inquire about how an eternal God relates to time/eternity. Theistic and atheistic thinkers speculate on this (if there is a god, then...).

Why would you engage in a debate just to mock and discredit? This is ignorant and immature. These topics are allowed here and of interest to people who can think, not just beg the question.

Is there a way to refuse to allow a con to participate when they are just being a troll?
BGreeneID

Con

go f*ck yourself
Debate Round No. 3
godrulz

Pro

Don't be a mental midget.
BGreeneID

Con

Go f*ck yourself bible thumping racist white trump lover
Debate Round No. 4
33 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 11 through 20 records.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 3 years ago
FollowerofChrist1955
godrulz;
YES, YES, clearly you value your own opinion. Rather than filling the page with your VIEWS and useless OPINION, which everyone COULD do.

Please place the DENOMINATION mentioned IN the Bible, right here:_____________________________.
Because IF you cannot, then ALL THEOLOGIES ARE WRONG, as they are NEVER identified in scripture, and SCRIPTURE is what your too obey.
The Bible DOES say YOU shall not add to nor take away from.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 3 years ago
FollowerofChrist1955
BGreeneID;
Yes, How valuable is the word if a child. Go to your room.
Posted by godrulz 3 years ago
godrulz
QM is speculative with a variety of views (cf. string theory is speculative and rejected by many). Some issues of time measure are informed by QM, but other aspects are philosophical and not proven or disproven by QM. Likewise, Einsteinian relativity has something to say about perceptions of time/measures of time/physical affects of gravity on clocks, etc., but it does not deal with Newtonian absolute time that has philosophical validity without making the mistake of blurring distinctions between past/present/future like Einstein did. Time is a concept, not a created thing (measures of time are created, but not time itself).
Posted by CivilianName295 3 years ago
CivilianName295
Sources: http://physics.mq.edu.au...
https://phys.org...
http://www.ams.org...
https://arxiv.org...
https://arxiv.org...
Omnipresence- The wave function is everywhere and since it extends throughout all of space then it's by definition omnipresent
Omnipotence- The self-collapsing wave function can skew its own probabilities via the zeno effect, this is when it can chose its own outcome self-deterministically yet not be predetermined (This is how free will works and it's the proof for free will), so free will applies to the wave function as well (This also proves that the universe is simulated in a mind) and since the wave function includes all possible outcomes for everything it can cause any outcome it wants at will and therefore it would be omnipotent
Omniscience- To understand omniscience it good to understand that collapse is never complete and when it does become complete we get blackholes now wait doesn't this prevent omniscience? NO since the bekenstein bound correlates the information content and this gives us the holographic principle and allows us to see all information content derived from what is collapsed and since information exist and is observed by the wave function then God would be omniscient since he would know all the information.
Eternality- Aside from the fact that if God were not eternal then someone or something else would have created him it good to understand that in the Wheeler-DeWitt equation the wave function is timeless and eternal.
Timeless,spaceless and immaterial- Space, time and matter are not fundamental and emerge from the spaceless, timeless, immaterial wave function.
Omnibenevolent and personal- God has to be morally perfect because evil cannot exist on its own and is always a perversion of Good so God must be a God of love for him to exist or crea
Posted by CivilianName295 3 years ago
CivilianName295
Space and time are illusions in quantum mechanics since the universal wave-function itself is timeless and eternal its what created our physical universe. i believe its the mind of God
Posted by godrulz 3 years ago
godrulz
followerofChrist: you lose all credibility when you say all theologies are wrong or that philosophy is always wrong. You have a theology and use philosophy whether you realize it or not. If you are Trinitarian like I am, there are theological and philosophical issues that godly thinkers have wrestled with for centuries.

I am not sure why you would even comment here when you are just displaying simplistic ignorance and making Christians look anti-intellectual leading to gullibility with false doctrine and incoherent thinking. Be part of the needed solution before a skeptical world, not part of the problem. Learn to think instead of being super-spiritual.
Posted by godrulz 3 years ago
godrulz
Why is there a religion and philosophy section with theists and non-theists participating in a variety of topics? I did not realize there are rules against non-atheistic discussions in light of all the ones I see without admin stopping them? Are you an admin? Show me the rules that I may be ignorant of.
Posted by BGreeneID 3 years ago
BGreeneID
christ, stop posting this nonsense or i'll have you banned
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 3 years ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Part 3
1 John 2:27
And as for you, the anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But just as His true and genuine anointing teaches you about all things, so remain in Him as you have been taught.

I cannot and do not speak from inexperience, I too walked as you walk now, and like you I had need of refreshment in the word of God. I needed to LEARN that it isn't about what I think, what I want, what I believed. I had to learn to SACRIFICE myself, my thoughts, my thinking, my rights, My beliefs, just AS Christ directed me to do the FIRST DAY we met.

Luke 9:23
Then he said to them all: "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me.

Matthew 10:38
and anyone who does not take up his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me.

Luke 14:27
And whoever does not carry his cross and follow Me cannot be My disciple.

Revelation 2:4
4But I have this against you: You have abandoned your first love. 5Therefore, keep in mind how far you have fallen. Repent and perform the deeds you did at first. But if you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place

This means God knows we have forgotten Him, in our quest for theology. He is our first love, He requires that we DENY OURSELVES, take up our Cross and follow Him .... won't those of you who read this make that choice for God today. Die to yourself, take up your Cross today, need I remind you that I was not the only one who promised Him I would do this for love of Him? Did you not also promise this?

Let it be as you will.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 3 years ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Part two;
The problem with theologies is that they are ALL WRONG. This is because they have been formulated by Men. You see, Scholars, Theologians, you, me, and all other true Believers and followers of God, have for reasons of our own, failed to OBEY God, we have turned into our OWN way. That was told too you And to Me directly IN scriptures. but WE, hear ourselves easier than God. God says specifically;

2 Peter 1:20-21
20Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from the prophet"s own interpretation. 21For no prophecy was ever brought about through human initiative, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."

Know what above all means? It MEANS ABOVE ALL. that TELLS US, not just me, that WE ARE NOT to interpret the word of God! That pretty much means, Scholars, Theologians, Priests, Pastors, etc... beginning to see WHY there are 33,820 Christian offshoots? Beginning to see WHY they're all wrong?

I mean, you wanna disobey God and find your own thing ... that's between you and God, but, you've been warned.

So where else have all those Christians gone astray? Disobedience through illiteracy of the word of God.

God says:
John 6:45
It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me

Philippians 3:15
All of us who are mature should embrace this point of view. And if you think differently about some issue, God will reveal this to you as well.

Does this say your pastor will reveal it too you, or your teacher, or your Tv evangelist or your Bible study teacher, or your commentaries.... NO!

Am I making a dent yet do you still need more scriptures to overcome your own thinking?
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by DNehlsen 3 years ago
DNehlsen
godrulzBGreeneIDTied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Arguer pro made an opening statement for his case. Arguer con made no refutation or argument, thus looses convincing arguments. Con failed to use proper grammar in his short, aggressive responses. Con also loses conduct and grammar points because of this.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
godrulzBGreeneIDTied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Twice, Con told Pro to fck himself. This is poor conduct.

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