The Instigator
Mistogen
Pro (for)
The Contender
hmikeshin
Con (against)

Is Life Meaningless?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/14/2018 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 7 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 513 times Debate No: 110742
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (13)
Votes (0)

 

Mistogen

Pro

To begin, I would like to point out that regardless of the outcome, the majority haven't found an answer to this question, and most of them haven't even tried to find an answer, so we are debating on 'thin ice' so-to-speak (as with many of the more interesting debates that you (plural) will find). I feel strongly that life IS meaningless, as I personally feel that there is no god, or sentient power dictating the outcome of our lives. I would say that if there was a god, he or she has been rather absent, considering the famine, poverty and pain that so many have to go through. I find that (again, all in my personal opinion,) that there is no god, and that humans have as much purpose as Pluto, that being to be screwed by science, and then basically ignored. we are to drift in and out of the time structure we created out of fear and paranoia, to slowly rot away as we try to leave a mark on the history of the human race, which, in the grand scheme of things, is terribly, truly, and inconsequentially pathetic.
hmikeshin

Con

Life is meaningful.

(If you're thinking of suicide, don't do it. Please don't)

Christianity Point of View:

Anyways, you said that you were an atheist, and I totally accept that. However, you also accepted the idea of Christianity in this debate. This could be proven whenever you said, "I would say that if there was a god, he or she has been rather absent, considering the famine, poverty and pain that so many have to go through." Now, let's say that say there was a God that was to exist. Specifically, a God for Christians (let's suppose).

Now, according to the Bible, it specifically says, "Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing." (James 1: 2-4) But not only that, the text says, "In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials," (1 Peter 1: 6-7) and "And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance;..." (Romans 5: 3-4) From these Bible verses, it does say stuff like trials and how you will encounter dark times, such as your examples, like famine and fear. However, these plans were by God's plan, and all these bad stuff, or trials, are happening to the Christian, or anybody, for a purpose. The Christian, or even non-Christians, have to persevere through these "dark ages" and put in trust in God. (Essentially, if you read the Bible from beginning to end, these trials are ways to make you grow closer to God, as you put your faith in God through these dark times.) So, that was a little contradiction to your statement.

Continuing on, Christians have a specific purpose in life, or in other words, a meaning in their life. According to God, Christians are to go make other people Christians and baptize these new Christians. Matthew 28:19 says, "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," (Now, even though they might soon die, which everybody does, they still contributed in making more people Christians. Their works soon go into effect possibly to the newer generation, and that's amazing for them. So whenever the old generation dies, the younger generation could tell their newer generation the good news of God. Soon the cycle repeats, and possibly everybody could hear about God.) Seeing this, Christians do have meaning in their life, and their life may be meaningful to the world.

Now, that was small talk. Let's get to the juicy part:

I guess there is really one claim to end this debate. (I may be wrong, though.)

Did you ever care for anything? More so, have you done anything that made it pleasurable for you? It's probably "yes"

Look at this step-by-step:

1) Humans do stuff that makes them happier or pleasurable.
Ex)
- Dating
- Watching movies
- Eating
- Taking naps
- etc.

2) Without these things, we would perhaps be the opposite of happy.

3) Due to this, we do happy stuff.

4) Essentially, we do "happy stuff" because we want to grow happier. In other words, our goal to become happy in this case.

5) Meanwhile, meaningless means irrelevant. (So, for your side, meaningless life basically means irrelevant life)

6) If our life is so irrelevant, then why are we doing "happy stuff"?

Seeing claim 6, it doesn't match up. Seeing this, life has some sort of meaning, such as being happy.

Bonus:
-
I would like to specifically point out that you said: "I feel strongly that life IS meaningless..." From this citation, whenever you said "life is meaningless" you point out that ALL human's life is meaningless. However, I could say that my life is not meaningless. Or like I have stated above, Christians may say that their life may not be meaningless. That's not ALL people. Seeing this, it contradicts your statement and argument.

- You also said "... or sentient power dictating the outcome of our lives". Whenever you said this, are you trying to say that our life is ONLY meaningful if somebody, with higher power, says so? Seriously? You really can't make your own decision as if your life has meaning or not? I'm pretty sure you make your own decisions a lot throughout your life. For example, you make choose to clean your bed or not. Or even study for a test or not. But life? You can't make your own choice. Apparently, life is too holy to even be in a decision. (Question: why can't we choose whether or not if our/my life has meaning?) And even if you said that, I thought you were an atheist. ("... find that (again, all in my personal opinion,) that there is no god") If you're bending the way to Christianity, I already have my proofs and statement above.
Debate Round No. 1
Mistogen

Pro

That was Incredible. Absolutely beautiful. (to be completely honest, most of me no longer has the will to debate. That was just incredible, so please pardon me is this seems rather half-hearted) (And please, don't fear, I do not intend to commit suicide. At all.)

Now, you said that the bible says that the world has trials and low-points, as seen when you said 'From these Bible verses, it does say stuff like trials and how you will encounter dark times, such as your examples, like famine and fear.'
I would like to state that Whoever will have written the bibles will have had to acknowledge the not all is perfect in the world, that we do not live in global utopia, and that to create a successful religion, (whatever the incentive/goal, they must create leeway for future issues, like famine and fear.
I would also like to mention that you said that 'Christians have a specific purpose in life, or in other words, a meaning in their life. According to God, Christians are to go make other people Christians and baptize these new Christians.'
They have found meaning in there lives, yes.
but they may not have found, so-to-say, 'the meaning of life', as in they may feel secure in what they have been told and/or found the meaning, their meaning of life, to be, however, they may or may not have found the true meaning of life, and may then be falsely spending their little time.
hmikeshin

Con

Rebuttal(s):



You have stated, "...but they may not have found, so-to-say, 'the meaning of life', as in they may feel secure in what they have been told and/or found the meaning, their meaning of life, to be, however, they may or may not have found the true meaning of life, and may then be falsely spending their little time" Again, you are talking about how someone with a higher power should tell us what do.

This is incorrect. Why? Let's look at another scenario:


1) Somebody has vandalized your property. They took most of your valuable property away.


Looking at this, is this "someone" doing something right? No; from human nature, we know that this person had done something wrong. We, as humans, can determine what is right or wrong without higher authorities interfering our ways of thinking. So what makes life so special from these type of scenarios? It's just not special. We can determine "life" in our own terms and its goals too.



**This basically points out that "the meaning of life" could be determined from humans, too. We, as humans, are able to know what the meaning of life is from ourselves.


Also, yes, the Bible was written by people, where it existed famine and fear. However, again, these types of "dark times" were intended by God's plan (in the Christian point of view). (It may be a possibility that some Christian's "meaning of life" will be to grow closer to God as they are experiencing "dark times")

Question:


1) You have stated, "may not have found, so-to-say, 'the meaning of life'". This definitely begs the question. What is the meaning of "life" that you are describing? As I have stated, if "life" was to be determined as existing, then yes, we, as humans, could determine what the "meaning of life" is in our terms

- And if you were to say that the "meaning of life" literally means the meaning of life, that is a tautology. That is not a good reasoning/support and also begs the question.

Bonus:

Scenario:

1) Have you ever had a crush on a boy/girl? Probably yes... (What you experiencing here is love.)
2) Would you do anything (with limited boundaries, such as not jumping off a cliff) for that girl/boy? Yes...
3) Would having this boy/girl be everything to you? Yes...
4) Seeing this, you have a specific goal in your life: getting this boy/girl.

5) Like always, meaningless would mean irrelevant. (So meaningless life=irrelevant life)

6) If your life were to be irrelevant, why would you even have a goal to 'have' this boy/girl?

Statement 6 is a contradiction by itself. Seeing this, life has to be relevant in order for statemenet 6 to be true.
Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 5
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Sweetcherrypie 6 months ago
Sweetcherrypie
Hello, you said that there is no meaning to life because there's an absent of god. You believe that because there's poverty and famine in the world concludes that there is no god. But we live in a world of free choice. God didn't create evil but only the potentiality of evil. It is our choice to use our reasoning to proof God's existence.
Posted by hmikeshin 7 months ago
hmikeshin
There is?

I did not see it.

If you are wondering, I have terrible grammar. Sooooo don't be surprised when you see a million grammar mistakes.
Posted by Mistogen 7 months ago
Mistogen
that's very kind, and you lay out your arguments impeccably. I have not proofread the entire thing, and there is at least one grammar mistake in my second argument.
Posted by hmikeshin 7 months ago
hmikeshin
At least you have better vocabulary than I do.
Posted by Mistogen 7 months ago
Mistogen
Well, my advice would be not to put your age in a public forum! (and I think you state things outstandingly)
Posted by hmikeshin 7 months ago
hmikeshin
Don't be blown away. Please, I'm a regular 13-year-old boy who likes to eat.
Posted by Mistogen 7 months ago
Mistogen
That was Impressive. Damn, That was many, many hundreds of times better than the response that I expected. I worry that I will struggle to compete! I mean, with the quality AND quantity that you had, especially in the time frame that you replied in, I have been truly blown away!
Posted by canis 7 months ago
canis
But then again who ask for meaning when you do what you like..
Posted by canis 7 months ago
canis
"Meaning" is an idea..No ideas = no meaning..
Posted by hmikeshin 7 months ago
hmikeshin
Thanks
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