The Instigator
Debaticus
Pro (for)
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The Contender
omar2345
Con (against)
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Is Rainbow Six Seige better than CS:GO?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/7/2019 Category: Games
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 822 times Debate No: 120224
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
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Debaticus

Pro

Argument 1: Rainbow six siege is better than CS:GO because of the improvements to realism, Balance, And objectives.
Rainbow six siege is in it's third year and it is currently at over 40 million players worldwide and growing. In 3 years it has added nearly 30 new operators, Each with their own individual play style, And managed to keep it all relatively balanced. Rainbow six siege makes it fun no matter which operator you play. Ubisoft is also actively working to make anything that isn't balanced more fair and balanced. For example: An operator named Ela used to be completely unfair. She could easily land headshots and kill upwards of 3 people in well placed sprays. She got the nerf hammer and became exactly as powerful as all the other operators. CS:GO has had for many years guns that have high damage and next to no recoil, The ability to camp and exploit certain places, And a very unreliable armor system.

The realism is much higher than CS:GO as well, As it adds tactical functions such as breachable walls, Drones, And realistic death situations. Hitting extremities leads to a set range of damage, Hitting a chest shot leads to a higher set range of damage, (Reduced with rook armor) and a headshot is always an instakill. (with one operator being an exception. ) The objectives are also more entertaining than CS:GO. In casual, You have the choice between secure area, Bomb and hostage. CS:GO only has 2 of the three. You also have a mode where you can cooperate against AI.
Overall, Rainbow six siege is much better than CS:GO
omar2345

Con

Reasons why CSGO is better than RSS

1. Free to play: If you don't like it the only thing you wasted was your time. If you did not like RSS you most likely will not get a refund and wasted your money. This also helps in creating a much larger community behind it.

2. Steam support. With CSGO being a Valve game it is much more open to modding and allowing users to create community driven projects that might get into the game. There are clear examples of such a case. Most likely when loading into a map it was community made. These maps are stated when you load into the game. I highly doubt RSS has similar level of support from the community due to Ubisoft and how badly they compare to Valve.

3. Variation. I searched up RSS game modes and I found they have: Outbreak, Situations, Bomb, Terrorist Hunt, Hostage, Secure Area, Tactical Realism where CSGO has: Deathmatch, Arms Race, Demolition, Classic, Danger Zone, Leagues and mixes which does not even include the community drive game modes like CSGO surfing.

I will leave it at that.

Await a response.
Debate Round No. 1
Debaticus

Pro

While these are very valid points, People are likely to have more fun in siege because of how noob friendly it is. Rainbow six gives you eleven different tutorial missions that are fun to play and have the elements of a campaign, Including a mission cooperating with other people to complete the objective.
Siege has mildly low skill floor because of the methodical careful gameplay, And a high skill ceiling coming from map knowledge and mechanics knowledge. A noob will have a great time in siege even if they don't fully understand it because of the interesting gameplay and no match being the same. A pro will have even more fun in siege when a tactic works, A move is pulled off, Or a strat is played. Also, Because of the amount of operators and maps there are thousands of strats that can be used. In summary, Siege is more fun for most levels of gameplay.

CS:GO's skill ceiling is too high. A noob can't even hope to play search and destroy because the second they show a single pixel to a skilled player, They get their head blown off. The fact that the game focuses more on skill than strategy is a clear issue. Sure there is some strategy in the game, But fixed, Unchangeable maps limit that strategy greatly.

While CS:GO may be fun if you hopped on the skill train early, It is not fun to try and catch up from scratch.

Micro transactions:
Rainbow six siege does have micro transactions, And some things can only be purchased with real money, But the loot crates (alpha packs) do not have the feel of luck. You open the pack, Get something random, And accept it. You aren't forced to watch as one of your desired skins just passes by and gets ignored, Making you want to buy more packs to get the skin. Rainbow six also lets you directly buy or even grind for any skins you want. The grind is very easy as well, As you can amass a hundred thousand renown by playing about half an hour weekly for a season.
In CS:GO, There are crates and KEYS. Some crates you can unlock through the grind, But can't even open unless you pay for a key. There is also the issue of popularized gambling sites in order to get the cosmetics you want. Sometimes kids as young as 9 go on those sites to get a skin. CS:GO popularizes gambling, And multiple countries have realized that and begun banning it.
While Rainbow six siege is growing, CS:GO is being banned.
That shows clearly which game is better.
omar2345

Con

While these are very valid points, People are likely to have more fun in siege because of how noob friendly it is.
I would say CSGO is much more noob friendly due to the amount of players playing. The more players you have the more likely you would be paired with bad people as well or at the very least a person who just downloaded the game.

Rainbow six gives you eleven different tutorial missions that are fun to play and have the elements of a campaign, Including a mission cooperating with other people to complete the objective.
A tutorial is not required for CSGO but there are mods from the steam community like firing ranges to test aim and change the cross hair to suit your liking. Tutorial missions time can be better spent on improving the multiplayer. Someone cannot be good at the game by playing offline missions. They are required to play with other people online so that they know what to do and what not to do. A computer can only do so much the user inputed the comptuer to do whereas if the user lacks knowledge of certain techniques the tutorial mission will miss out exploits that help the player improve as a player. The only thing you need to play CSGO is have it installed, A mouse and know the controls. I much rather learn while as a play instead of playing with bots.

Siege has mildly low skill floor because of the methodical careful gameplay,
The exact same can be said for CSGO depending on the game mode. Classic comes to mind where positioning is key. Aiming is good and all but if you run into the open the team can pick you off with a better position.

And a high skill ceiling coming from map knowledge and mechanics knowledge.
Not only this is true with CSGO it is all true with almost every single game. Reason is if you do not understand how the game mechanics and how best to use it how will you be effective at playing CSGO or other games. Map knowledge is required for every game that has a map. CSGO allows the player to get accustomed with the map during a loading screen. The loading screen shows the map where the player can understand the game before joining so that he can use the knowledge quicker.

A noob will have a great time in siege even if they don't fully understand it because of the interesting gameplay and no match being the same. A pro will have even more fun in siege when a tactic works, A move is pulled off, Or a strat is played. Also, Because of the amount of operators and maps there are thousands of strats that can be used. In summary, Siege is more fun for most levels of gameplay.
I find this difficult to believe. If the goal of the person was to lose a lot as a noob then yes they will have fun but if it isn't then they won't be having fun dying a lot. If I change the context of what you said and applied it to CSGO it would be the same. No point has made which is exclusive or more important with RSS so either both games noobs can have fun or they don't.

CS:GO's skill ceiling is too high. A noob can't even hope to play search and destroy because the second they show a single pixel to a skilled player, They get their head blown off.
This is untrue. I have currently played 2 hours of this game and have gotten a postive KD ratio in a game. Meaning for only spending 2 hours with the game and playing classic (Demolition and search and destroy combined) why wouldn't a noob be able to do so? The only thing they need to understand is where to go on the map, What guns to pick, How to aim and pickup on footsteps which can alert them to enemy presence.

Another reason why CSGO is better than RSS is because no unlocks are locked behind a pay wall. Cosmetics are but they do not improve your performance it is only asethtic. I am sure if I am not wrong RSS requires the player to pay an amount to buy the game and the dlc. Meaning if someone does not buy the dlc they will have classes locked until they buy it. Even having classes is restrictive. What if I want to use a different class? I am sure you are not able to change when you are in a match but in CSGO if you have the money are able to buy whatever weapon, Armour, Throwables you want. Yes terrorists and counter terrorists have different weapons but having them not locked behind a pay wall but CSGO is front of RSS.

The fact that the game focuses more on skill than strategy is a clear issue. Sure there is some strategy in the game, But fixed, Unchangeable maps limit that strategy greatly.
Both strategy and skill are important in CSGO. Strategy to know map layout and the best spots to pick off enemies early or throw a smoke bomb in order to cut off areas for a short period of time. Sure an enemy can walk through it but they will be shot dead so basically maps can be smaller if the person uses the right equipment. Astehtically sure RSS allow you to destroy walls but the same thing occur with smoke bombs but only for a short period of time. What you forgot mention is the unchangeable classes in RSS. CSGO allows you to change guns but you can't change anything when you have started the game in RSS if I am not mistaken. If your team wants to forfeit a Round so that they can stockpile there money for the next they can. If you want to not use the sniper instead a shotgun simply pass the weapon onto another player and buy the shotgun. CSGO offers more customisation in and out the map which RSS restricts more than it gives player freedom.

While CS:GO may be fun if you hopped on the skill train early, It is not fun to try and catch up from scratch.
I am having a good time getting a positive KD earlier on in CSGO. Have earned one skin without even buying it. What comes next is me improve my KD in matches and with the drops I get customise my weapons.

Micro transactions:
Rainbow six siege does have micro transactions, And some things can only be purchased with real money
Forgetting to mention you have to buy dlc to even use additional character and maps.

But the loot crates (alpha packs) do not have the feel of luck. You open the pack, Get something random, And accept it.
Doesn't matter how it feels it is still random and based on luck. CSGO is the same but at least it is free.

You aren't forced to watch as one of your desired skins just passes by and gets ignored, Making you want to buy more packs to get the skin.
It is only just an animation. If you want simply skip.

Rainbow six also lets you directly buy or even grind for any skins you want.
CSGO requires a way to monetise in order to make money. I rather have skins behind crates than have content which restricts what I can play behind a paywall. Yes this is a lesser of two evils but CSGO is lesser.

The grind is very easy as well, As you can amass a hundred thousand renown by playing about half an hour weekly for a season.
If that is the case then RSS has a problem keeping people retained. If you get so much by playing half an hour imagine someone like me playing six hours in a day.

There is also the issue of popularized gambling sites in order to get the cosmetics you want. Sometimes kids as young as 9 go on those sites to get a skin
Not the games fault instead the people who play it. Valve have done their best and succeeded in many ways to stop illegal gambling.
Ubisoft do not care as much as Valve.

CS:GO popularizes gambling, And multiple countries have realized that and begun banning it.
While Rainbow six siege is growing, CS:GO is being banned.
My sources will be in the description.
RSS has 98, 804 players who played in 24 hours.
CSGO has 598, 622 players who played in 24 hours.
Look at the difference. Almost 6 times more people play CSGO than RSS. Not even a competition.
Lets take the peak as well. RSS all-time peak was at 176, 208.
CSGO peak was at 850, 485.
Almost 5 times the difference.
Bear in mind this is only on PC and on steam but it is the most popular platform.

Debate Round No. 2
Debaticus

Pro

> to even use additional character and maps.
Rainbow six has free DLC. You can play every map the devs have ever made without needing to pay a cent extra. Sure, The game costs 30-60 bucks, But that's only because it's a AAA title. Games that are good are usually paid for. And if you don't want to pay for it, The grind is always an option. Unlocking operators is getting even easier as ubisoft makes the older operators cheaper and refunds any renown used in the wrong areas.

>What if I want to use a different class?
If you want a different class, You can wait until the end of the round and get it. The rounds always switch between defense and offense so you can't lose a game without playing each side at least once. Games are also much shorter, With max 5 five minute rounds in casual, Versus CS:GO's 16 or something rounds to win.

> It's only an animation
So are the slots in a casino. You can skip the animation but I'm sure few people want to.

To clarify, A season is about 3 months.
you make 100-700 renown per match.
Each match is usually about 20 minutes.
My math was admittedly a bit off, As it was an estimate based upon my own play time, But since the beginning of the last season less than a month ago, I have gone from 15, 000 to nearly 80, 000 renown.

Freedom: Rainbow six siege has much more gameplay freedom than counterstrike. You can have bulletproof shields, Nearly fifty operators with all unique abilities, The ability to ADS, Sprint, Prone, Rappel, Breach, Drone, Revive, And scores more. In CS:GO I tried playing and was actually disappointed when I found you couldn't even aim down sights. It just felt wrong.

Your argument about strategy is invalid as well, Because while CS:GO can smoke and close off areas temporarily, Siege can do the same thing, And more. You can smoke, Reinforce walls, Place traps, Jam drones, Open sightlines, And rotate around the map and through walls and floors. An example of this happening was this: My teammates had breached into the objective, And I remembered that the last person was spawnpeeking at the beginning of the round. I was already rappelling on a wall, So I just moved up a floor, Opened a wall as maverick, Got the drop on the enemy, And won the round. This in CS:GO would be impossible because of a number of things. You can't rappel, You can't reliably tell where an enemy is through map knowledge, Just the general area, And you can't open walls for sightlines. You may argue that you can tell exactly where someone is through sound cues and memory, But a noob can't.

> Ubisoft does not care as much as valve.
Where is your support for this? Ubisoft has fixed nearly every bug they have had in no more than 1 or 2 seasons. Valve is still yet to permanently fix at least 10 gamebreaking bugs including noclipping and hitbox issues.

Also, The armor system is very confusing to me. The fact you can spend 300-500 in game dollars to have armor, Then that armor is sometimes fully ignored when you die just seems gamebreaking. If you happen to know how the system works feel free to share.

The last thing that needs to be touched on is the playerbase and the pro league.

The playerbase of CS:GO is commonly more toxic. People berating you for making a tiny mistake, People arguing, Teamkilling over weapons, Hacks (of which some have gone for way too long without being fixed like aimbot and noclipping) and use of racial and homophobic slurs being common.

Rainbow six siege's playerbase isn't much the same. There is occasionally things previously mentioned, But a lot less of it because of the freedom of choice given by the game. The game gives the options to mute voice and text chat. There was also a rule in place that auto banned people for making any kind of slur, And that was improved by replacing an algorithm with dedicated moderator jobs. If you report someone for a legitimate offense, They can be banned from the game before the match is even over. That's a good playerbase.
The games have similarities to each other in mute buttons, Vote to kick options, Bans, And reporting.

The pro league is very different. R6S has had no reported pro league hacks, And is so widely supported even my math teacher supports a team.

CS:GO has had reported cases of hacking in the pro league, As well as the "Inhuman reactions" esc. Situations.

I have clocked about 5 hours in CS:GO and 1, 325 (roughly) hours in rainbow six siege. I have never wanted to buy CS:GO and only play it at my friends' houses. When I think I want to play CS:GO, I find more enjoyment playing one of it's parodies in ROBLOX or Pavlov VR, Both of which I prefer to the game itself because of the less sweaty playerbase.
I am heavily biased but that's why I started the debate in the first place.

In the end, It is all down to opinions. A player who has never played CS:GO or Siege will probably look towards the freedom, Friendliness, And fun of siege over the free to play, Economy based, Gambling inducing sweatfest of CS:GO
Thank you for your time.
-Debaticus
omar2345

Con

Pro states this: Rainbow six has free DLC. You can play every map the devs have ever made without needing to pay a cent extra.
Then states: Unlocking operators is getting even easier as ubisoft makes the older operators cheaper and refunds any renown used in the wrong areas.
Meaning the dlc is not free only some of it is. CSGO is free the cosmetics randomly drop or you have to buy it.


Rainbow six siege has much more gameplay freedom than counterstrike. You can have bulletproof shields, Nearly fifty operators with all unique abilities, The ability to ADS, Sprint, Prone, Rappel, Breach, Drone, Revive, And scores more. In CS:GO I tried playing and was actually disappointed when I found you couldn't even aim down sights. It just felt wrong.
CSGO has mods which allows more freedom. If you want your view compromised I am sure there is an aim down sights mod. The only guns which aim down sights are weapons with scope attachments. What Pro also forgets to mention how small the maps are and how slow the character moves. In CSGO you can switch to the knife and run. This makes sense because the rifle will be on your back and you can use your hands to run faster. RSS also limits the player by classes. CSGO you can buy whatever you want if you have the money. RSS does not allow you to use an ability from another operator instead you are stuck with the one you had and no option when you did pick your class to change until the next Round.

Because while CS:GO can smoke and close off areas temporarily, Siege can do the same thing, And more. You can smoke, Reinforce walls, Place traps, Jam drones, Open sightlines, And rotate around the map and through walls and floors.
So basically you have no point either? Reinforcing walls slows down the game and does not make it about skill instead how good you are at camping. All those equipment you suggested are restricted to the class and you forgot to mention when someone picks that class another person in the same team cannot pick it. In CSGO you can pick any guns if you have the money. Even one other person picked the AK-47.

This in CS:GO would be impossible because of a number of things. You can't rappel, You can't reliably tell where an enemy is through map knowledge, Just the general area, And you can't open walls for sightlines. You may argue that you can tell exactly where someone is through sound cues and memory, But a noob can't.
A noob can't hear footsteps? Your acting as if RSS is more noob friendly. You have so many classes yet you start with the Recruit the worst class in the game. How is that noob friendly? To answer it is not. It hinders the player for being new and they are forced to do well with the worst class in the game. A recruit cannot even use attachments that is how bad it is.

Where is your support for this? Ubisoft has fixed nearly every bug they have had in no more than 1 or 2 seasons. Valve is still yet to permanently fix at least 10 gamebreaking bugs including noclipping and hitbox issues.
When I could not provide evidence due to character restraints. Pro did not either. Granted I did the same but I will include sources instead of not doing it. Steam offers the best refund policy out of all sites (Simple play a game less than 2 hours and you can refund it) it is also has much better sales (Half-Life 2 and be bought for 1. 59 dollars and it is a Valve game). 10 gamebreaking bugs? No evidence given so I can dismiss without evidence. Now why ubisoft are a bad company. They do not even understand frames per second. They think 30fps is somehow better than 60fps. It isn't and I would add a source in the comment section. I am sure RSS is running a 60fps but 30fps does not feel more cinematic. That is a lie.

The armor system is very confusing to me. The fact you can spend 300-500 in game dollars to have armor
You get 800 at the start. It even gives the losing team money. Every single Round for about 5 times they get 500 more money. The highest you can get as the losing team is 3400 and the lowest is 1400. Take away 500 you still have 900 or maybe save the money for a Round when you can get a good gun. It is called strategy not buy when you barely have money and hoping you get kills when in earlier Rounds you failed to with a bad weapon.

Then that armor is sometimes fully ignored when you die just seems gamebreaking.
I don't know what you mean. The amour only protects the body. If you get shot in the head with the sniper the armour will not protect you which is why I mostly avoid using armour. I think I would use it if I was playing competitive but I am okay without armour in classic.

The playerbase of CS:GO is commonly more toxic.
Guess your feelings got hurt or something. Doesn't make the game bad.

People berating you for making a tiny mistake, People arguing, Teamkilling over weapons, Hacks (of which some have gone for way too long without being fixed like aimbot and noclipping) and use of racial and homophobic slurs being common.
A tiny mistake can cost an entire matches outcome. They can be frusturated if they want to. Other stuff would be trolls. I don't mind because it brings more life to the game and it doesn't happen in competitve because you get penalised for doing so.

rule in place that auto banned people for making any kind of slur, And that was improved by replacing an algorithm with dedicated moderator jobs.
Please polticically correct police ban me for saying something you don't agree with. Yes Valve has this sort of policy but that is taking it too far when you ban people without having their side of the story. Imagine that was how the law worked.

They can be banned from the game before the match is even over. That's a good playerbase.
What? How is that even a good thing? You have either costed your team or their team by doing so. This can be easily exploited and used to win games.

R6S has had no reported pro league hacks, And is so widely supported even my math teacher supports a team.
It hasn't been aroud for that long nor does it have the same amount of Pro League players.

I find more enjoyment playing one of it's parodies in ROBLOX or Pavlov VR, Both of which I prefer to the game itself because of the less sweaty playerbase.
I am heavily biased but that's why I started the debate in the first place.
This is all subjective so I can just say I would rather play CSGO then RSS. So basically no argument was given.

In the end, It is all down to opinions.
No it isn't. It can be factual like most of my arguments are. I don't incorporate feelings that often and my arguments are better for it.

A player who has never played CS:GO or Siege will probably look towards the freedom, Friendliness, And fun of siege over the free to play, Economy based, Gambling inducing sweatfest of CS:GO
Thank you for your time.
CSGO is free so it gives the player more freedom. You even stated it yourself RSS does not have that much of a better community and even mentioned above you state people who got offended can ban people during a game which if it is wrong just cost the other team a loss because of that persons lie. Fun is subjective. Yes CSGO makes more money how is that a bad thing? It is not by the way. Gambling is the fault of players lying to their fanbase not the creators of the game. If people care about the game you call them a sweatfest. If CSGO is a sweatfest RSS is for casuals. People who barely play videos games and when they do they want instant gratification instead of doing hard work and actually being good at the game. Keep the title of the game for casuals while CSGO basks in the glory of being competitive while also being worth playing due to its high skill ceiling.

My arguments were better due to my focus on facts rather than opinions and Pro didn't make a point I couldn't rebut.



Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
Sources: They don't work the normal way so I will type the heading and in brackets where it is from.

Steam vs Origin vs Uplay vs GOG vs Windows Store - A Definitive Guide (Gadgets360)
Ubisoft on Assassin"s Creed Unity: 30fps "Feels More Cinematic" (technobuffalo)
The CS:GO money system explained (Pinnacle)

If you want to find out the price of Half-life 2. Go to steam and search half life 2. Check before the 11th because the sale would be over by then.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
Sources:

https://steamcharts. Com/app/359550

https://steamcharts. Com/app/730
Posted by kwbc 3 years ago
kwbc
The only issue with R6S is the fact that it's a pay to enjoy game where you have to spend countless hours grinding for points to unlock new characters, Guns and attachments. Now that's changed and everyone has access to all guns and attachments, But you still have to spend many hours playing to earn enough to unlock new people, Or simply buy them with cash
No votes have been placed for this debate.

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