The Instigator
EJR925
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
billsands
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Is Truth Absolute or Relative?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/23/2018 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 915 times Debate No: 118690
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (7)
Votes (0)

 

EJR925

Pro

I believe that truth is absolute, Objective truth. If you disagree, Accept the challenge.
billsands

Con

Cogito ergo sum, How can you even know the truth about reality we all percieve it different and have different values, Values are not absolute.
Debate Round No. 1
EJR925

Pro

In my opening statement I clearly said, "I believe that truth is absolute, Objective truth. "

NOWHERE in my opening statement did I make a claim that I knew the truth about reality. You're arguing with yourself. I did not make that claim. NOWHERE in my opening statement say anything about values. I made no such claim. Values is an attribute that influences behavior. I am simply talking about 'Truth. ' Nothing else. If I meant something else, I would state it. The burden of proof is for me to back up my claim or prove it "Truth is absolute, Objective truth. " The burden of proof is on you to prove that truth is relative not absolute. Let's not deflect away from the topic, "Is Truth Absolute or Relative? "

The statement, "there is no truth" claims to be true and actually defeats itself. It's like saying, "I can't speak a word in English. " That statement defeats itself. Self-defeating statements are statements that fail to meet their own standard. The statement, "there is no truth" claims to be objectively true. It claims to be true for everyone. But if that's true then the statement, "there is no truth" fails to meet its own standard.
billsands

Con

What is the point of stating that there is an abolute truth if you can never know it? Subjective reality is when we put the adjectives and adverbs in. Instead of dealing with the reality, We insert our opinions and colour into it. Objective reality is what exists whether we are there to perceive it or not. Subjective reality is how we interpret what is around us with our senses and brain.
there may well be an absolute truth but the important point is, We can never know it, Theres no way to know it
Debate Round No. 2
EJR925

Pro

All of those statements you just made were objective truth claims. You are claiming that they are truth for everyone. Objective.

The statement, "there is no truth" fails to meet its own standard. However, If the statement, "there is no truth" was somehow true. Then that means that statement is incorrect. If it's correct that "there is no truth" then that statement can't be correct or true. That would mean its just your opinion. If that statement is correct then we're all wrong. This is totally nonsensical to postulate.

All truth claims are narrow and absolute. Just think about this claim, "everything is true. " That's an absolute and narrow claim; It excludes its opposite (it claims that the statement "everything is not true" is wrong). All truths exclude their opposites. Truth is discovered, Not invented. It exists independent of anyone's knowledge of it. Example: Gravity existed prior to Newton.
billsands

Con

My point is not so much that objective reality varies from person to person, My point is how we view reality varies from person to person, There is no way to establish exactly what objective reality or indeed if it might vary between persons, We do live in a multiverse they say, That may or may not be true, Everyone in their onw way lives in their own universe of their own making
Debate Round No. 3
EJR925

Pro

That's a different topic. We have deflected away from truth being absolute or relative.

But yes I understand what your saying. It just focuses on a separate topic. . . . . . .

Do you wish to continue?
billsands

Con

You are wrong it is NOT a seperate subject what is the meaning of COGITO ERGO SUM? I think therefore i am? It means all you know is that you exist the rest is speculation, There really isnt any way for you to say truth is aboslute, When everything you know is suspect. .

Subjective reality is when we put the adjectives and adverbs in. Instead of dealing with the reality, We insert our opinions and colour into it. Objective reality is what exists whether we are there to perceive it or not. Subjective reality is how we interpret what is around us with our senses and brain.
if ther is an objective reality you can't possible know itfor all you know you are a catipillar having a very strange dream
there is no objective reality only perception and they are all different
Debate Round No. 4
EJR925

Pro

I understand what you're saying, But you are taking a self-defeating position on an unbelievable scale.

You can know objective reality. Again my previous example; Gravity existed PRIOR to Newton discovering it. Gravity is the objective reality. It still existed regardless of if or when Newton discovered it. Objective reality exists and yes it's correct that we all perceive it differently. We all have different beliefs, Attitudes, And values. If you claim that we can't possibly know objective reality then you need proof to back that up. You're making speculative possibilities which seems to be a faith-based position. I don't think we are butterflies or dolphins having a strange dream. That seems to be a unproven theory that lacks evidence and explanatory power/scope. If you claim that there is no objective reality then support it with evidence not truth claims. I'm not gullible. I know you're not either (which is good). Even if it is true that we can't know or discover objective reality, Then there is no point in this debate, Everything you and I claim or say has no meaning or purpose were just dreaming. If it is true that there is no objective reality then everything you said in this debate is false because according to you there is no objective reality. If there is no objective reality then were both wrong about everything so what's the point of this debate? All debates presuppose that an objective truth exists outside of the mind of each debater. Each debater is trying to show that his/her claims are closer to that objective truth than his/her opponent.

Atheist evolutionary biologist J. B. S. Haldane said, "If my mental processes are determined wholly by the motions of atoms in my brain, I have no reason to suppose that my beliefs are true. . . . And hence I have no reason for supposing my brain to be composed of atoms. " So according to him we have no reason to believe anything. Self-defeating.

Atheist Francis Crick, Co-discoverer of DNA said, "The Astonishing Hypothesis is that "You, " your joys and your sorrows, Your memories and your ambitions, Your sense of personal identity and free will, Are in fact no more than the behavior of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules. "If nonrational molecules predetermine everything we think and write then why should we believe anything we think or write including everything Francis Crick wrote! Self-defeating.

If you are correct, Then we have NO justification for believing ANYTHING we think, Including everything we posted on this debate. If you are correct, Then you and I are just dreaming and don't have a clue what were talking about. This is clearly absurd. And requires evidence to support it.

Thank you
billsands

Con

if there is an obejctive reality we can never know itso therefore? I say how can it exist?
Debate Round No. 5
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by EJR925 3 years ago
EJR925
@omar2345

I just used a different term. And I agree with you. I say objective truth because it opposes or excludes truth being relative.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@EJR925

Why not call objective truth fact?
Fact is independent of our knowledge.
Truth is subjective because it is relative. If truth is not subjective then it might as well be fact.
If a truth is discovered doesn't it become a fact if proven?
Facts are objective.
I think you are too consumed with objective truth. Just call it fact.
Absolute truth=fact
If not true then what's the difference?
Posted by canis 3 years ago
canis
There are only facts. Truth is the imagination and manipulation of facts and non facts.
Posted by deathtank55555 3 years ago
deathtank55555
oof
"values are not absolute"
rip 2018
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
Absolutly relative
Posted by deathtank55555 3 years ago
deathtank55555
Should I troll this argument with an argument unbeatable
Posted by deathtank55555 3 years ago
deathtank55555
Con: "Truth is relative"
Pro: "That's an absolute truth statement"
I smell a scam.
No votes have been placed for this debate.

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