The Instigator
asta
Pro (for)
Tied
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The Contender
Savage_girl
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Is capitalism better than socialism?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/7/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 607 times Debate No: 112455
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

asta

Pro

So this is going to be an introduction. I believe capitalism is better than socialism.

Anytime socialism has been tried in a country, it either has failed or will fail in the future.
Savage_girl

Con

Capitalism is unsustainable in the long run. It requires infinite growth within a closed and finite system. It will eventually collapse, because of this fact (even though in economics it is a "scientifically supported" theory that it is possible to have infinite growth in a closed and finite system). Socialism does not necessarily require growth, except as the population expands, but all of the theorists post-Marx added it in " they called it "progress".

socialism is better (which has not killed thousands or millions of people)
Debate Round No. 1
asta

Pro

Capitalism doesn't require infinite growth within a closed system, that's socialism. Socialism causes wealth to leave the country and socialism causes people to depend on the government for money since that is the easier option (and for many people) the preferable one.

When has capitalism ever collapsed?

You said, "Socialism does not necessarily require growth, except as the population expands, but all of the theorists post-Marx added it in " they called it "progress".". This doesn't make sense. Can you try to re explain it?
Savage_girl

Con

Wolfgang Streeck, a 70-year-old German sociologist and director emeritus of the Max Planck Institute for the Study of Societies, thinks capitalism"s end is inevitable and fast approaching. He has no idea what, if anything, will replace it.

This is the premise of his latest book, How Will Capitalism End?, which goes well beyond Thomas Piketty"s Capital in the 21st Century. Piketty thinks capitalism is getting back into the saddle after being ruined in two world wars. Streeck thinks capitalism is its own worst enemy and has effectively cut itself off from all hope of rescue by destroying all its potential rescuers.

"The end of capitalism," he writes in the introduction, "can then be imagined as a death from a thousand cuts... No effective opposition being left, and no practicable successor model waiting in the wings of history, capitalism"s accumulation of defects, alongside its accumulation of capital, may be seen... as an entirely endogenous dynamic of self-destruction."
Debate Round No. 2
asta

Pro

When has capitalism ever failed?
Savage_girl

Con

One of the most important reasons that they failed, which has nothing to do with ideology or politics, and was discussed in great detail by Vladimir Lenin in What Is To Be Done?, is that with any new idea or movement, especially one acheived through such a massive event as a revolution, and changing society in such a radical way as to restructure its mode of production, there will always be mistakes, and many of those mistakes will lead to failure. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the ideology itself, it's just something that happens with new ideas.

Capitalism has established itself as the dominant economic order of the world, but it, too, was at one point a new idea. And surely it, too, had many failures before it was successful in establishing itself. What I'm asking for is examples of this; instances where bourgeois revolutions against feudalism, in an attempt to establish capitalism, resulted in failure. This isn't just so I can throw this in the face of liberals and say "Haha, you failed too!" This is so I can say that any ideology, even one successful enough to become globally applied, can be a failure at first, and so failures of the past, while important to learn from, are not necessarily determinants of the future.
Debate Round No. 3
asta

Pro

So your saying that socialism has to be modified once it fails.

However, many fiscal left brand names (Communism, Socialism, democratic socialism, even social democracy) are extremely similar and have minimal changes. That is why in the short term, they always work. North Korea was once the better of the 2 Koreas but then capitalist south korea topped North Korea, Venezuela once had a good economy due to socialism but then socialism took it's toll, and socialism is causing Scandinavia to fail. The economy of Norway dropped by 20% between 2014 and 2016.

In short, (as a metaphor) socialism is like a sprint and Capitalism is like a jog. What will win in the marathon of life? Something that burns out quickly or something that consistently moves you forward to win the race.
Savage_girl

Con

Socialism means 1000 things but if you are comparing it to capitalism, then understand you are now reducing it to an economic theory. Capitalism can be summed up as the private ownership of the means of production, and socialism contrasts with public ownership, which can take on different medium, most use government.

That being the case these can be directly measured, and in the real world very few things are "pure" anything including systems, thus they operate on a spectrum. Here is one list measuring economic freedom as defined by private ownership of the means of production.
Http://www.Heritage.Org...

While definitely not a perfect 1:1 relationship, I'd bet you'd choose countries that were closer to the top of the list than those at the bottom.

Ideology is wonder, but its application is important. If it takes angels to make a particular idea work, then chances are that the idea was not based to function under the human condition.

Obviously arguments can be made that future technologies can make it happen but until I see the more socialistic leaning governments start gaining traction over the capitalistic leaning governments due to said technology. I'd say its a rather safe conclusion that socialism is not overall better than capitalism as it stands in the early 21st century.
Debate Round No. 4
asta

Pro

Thank you for proving my point.
Savage_girl

Con

Socialism is a set of a left-wing political principles whose general aim is to create a system in which everyone has a equal opportunity to benefit from a countries wealth. Under socialism, the countries main industries are usually owned by the state. As in capitalism property, business and industry are owned by private individuals and not by the state. So in capitalism we cannot question the government as we can in socialism. Therefore socialism is better than capitalism
Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by zhaod1 2 years ago
zhaod1
I would say regulated capitalism is the best, Where some aspects of socialism are included.
The US leans towards capitalism, But still has some socialist policies, And that's why economic growth is stable.
Posted by asta 3 years ago
asta
Every time socialism has been put into practice in an entire country, it's caused the country to fail.
Posted by asta 3 years ago
asta
Capitalism vs Democratic socialism (the type used in Venezuela and Scandinavia).
Posted by DeepInThought 3 years ago
DeepInThought
I might consider this debate, please say if you mean pure socialism, (like what the Nazis had) or any of the other forms of socialism that have come around throughout the years. Like a Social Democracy for example.
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