The Instigator
KJVPrewrather
Con (against)
The Contender
AlexandreTheThriceGreat
Pro (for)

Is forced sterilization ever justified?

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Debate Round Forfeited
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/3/2018 Category: Science
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 882 times Debate No: 113487
Debate Rounds (5)
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Votes (0)

 

KJVPrewrather

Con

Forced sterilization is when a woman is forced to have her tubes removed, or a man is forced to have a vasectomy. I take the position that forced sterilization is never justified, and is a fiorm if eugenics. I choose to be sterilized because my medications cause birth defects, but I otherwise really wish I could be a mother. It hurts that this is forced on people, and as a supporter of contraceptive choice for women, I always support the adult age 20 or older to CHOOSE yes, no, or undecided to sterilization. It should be a consenting choice. Adolf Hitler and even America have failed to honor this right to choose.
AlexandreTheThriceGreat

Pro

Before I begin:
I am a very solid supporter of The declaration of human rights and I only take this argument as a thought experiment and thus do not expect any of the ideas presented below to be held against me at any time ... save for the benefit of a thought experiment.

Forced sterilization could indeed be justified in any number of circumstances, in this sense of the word I mean to justify the sterilization of a man, woman, child or horse preventing the occurrence of events perceived as more damaging to the individual, their society or their possible offspring than the sterilization of the being themselves.

A number of loose examples;
If an individual possess a genetic flaw impeding their life-span or life quality significantly as to suppose that their reproduction of a child and thus passing of such flaw to babe would be to birth into this world a being with a life quality expected to fall drastically below that which is considered norm
eg. a man with a genetic mutation separate from his parents that has a 25 year life expectancy, or a quality of life that he himself is not in acceptance of and struggles to express enlightenment during, quoting his ailment as the cause.
To birth another child from this genetic mutation would surely be just inflicting pain and suffering upon another humans life that could be prevented?
The man may not see things this way due to human greed and desire sexual partners with the same vigour as other members of society and choose not to protect himself from the creation of another's misery for the fulfilment of his own senses, and in this case I can see the forced sterilization a greater good to the multiple abortions or aberrations that may be born due to this mans carelessness towards others, whilst blinded by misery and in search of some redeeming spark of light, love and happiness.

As to a man or woman criminally insane, the birth and subsequent upbringing of a child may result in another member of society who is so unstable as to be said to have a quality of life below the norm, thus during the apprehension of a man or woman found criminally insane, their forced sterilization would ensure that they never have a chance to raise a child into that perverted sense of normality, assuming the child wouldn't be beaten or killed by the parent before they could have absorbed enough environmental insanity to be scarred and possibly also declared criminally insane.
In this case the forced sterilization upon apprehension of such a criminally insane man or woman would ensure the further confinement of said damages to their person, and ensure the indoctrination of a child could never occur, if any other precautions such as hospital or prison confinement were to fail.
if bonnie and clyde had children ... eh?

I can see the plausible forced sterilization of a woman whose ability to bear children is reduced significantly due to some bodily injury or mis-growth, in such a way that the woman COULD bear children however the chances of the child and woman surviving pregnancy are extremely low. And yet the desire to create new life may be so overpowering within human that an attempt to bear children may still be her desire, even though to try would be to put her and the child's life in danger. Isn't better to have no hope of winning the lottery and thus to be able to move on and focus elsewhere than it is to believe in a 0.01% chance of success and to endanger yourself, and others around you to try and win?
Yet the human maternal instinct can be overwhelmingly (and beautifully, yet dangerously) powerful.

In any case it is hard to see the just side of sterilization, especially forced sterilization; however due to the endless possibilities provided for us within the infinity of the cosmos, where there is a will there is a way .. and though forced sterilization may deny one the chances of experiencing natural childbirth for the protection of an equal experience of life for the child or society there are any number of ways to experience the healthy raising of a child, and any amount of reincarnations where healthy childbirth is to be experienced, and sometimes even moaned about!
Debate Round No. 1
KJVPrewrather

Con

Thank you for excepting. My main argument is that every person has a family genetic history of some things. To quote cure every genetic disease, we would have to sterilize most of the quote undesirables, and there would be a lot of eugenic harm to society. Sterilization should always be voluntary kind of like sex, and for consenting adults only. Adolf Hitler, who got his forced sterilization ideas from the state of Cailifornia and others had some violent ideas, and practiced other forms of eugenics, including forced suicide, and forced experiementation. Youtube.com it, and judge who is right or wrong. My conclusion is this: Consenting adults have the right to choose yes or no to safe and legal sterilization proceedures. Eugenics and the US Constitution cannot cooexist, and many bioethicists contend that forced sterilization has the potential to lead to other forms of eugenics.
AlexandreTheThriceGreat

Pro

Yes, everyone is a individual genetic code, though not everyone's genetic code reduces their quality of life to that of extreme suffering.
we are talking about justifying the 0.5% of the population to whom carrying child would be insanely dangerous to both mother and child. To them, sterilization would simply be a precaution to ensure their suffering is not passed on, incase their usual measures of contraception (the condom or the pill) fail.
I do not set out to propose that forced sterilization be applied to a certain race, like the Jewish, nor do I condone other forms of eugenics, that is to twist my argument beyond recognition. Instead I am setting out an argument for the 0.05% of the time where forced sterilization would be a mercy to the citizen in question, and their possibly impacted natural children.
And to show thus that there do exist situations where forced sterilization IS indeed justifiable ...

I think you have missed the pivot of this debate ... is forced sterilization " EVER JUSTIFIABLE "
YES ... in very rare and difficult situations.

You seem to instead want to campaign for the right for a population to choose for itself "consenting adults only" to opt for sterilization of any form.

Obviously in any manor, it SHOULD be a choice available to any consenting adult due to any number of personal reasons.

Though you provide no refuting arguments as to why in certain aforementioned exceptional situations it shouldn't be forcibly imposed upon a member of society??

That is the topic of the debate .. not to discuss a topic such as; is forced sterilization a good policy for the american government to introduce for 25% of the population ... the mere suggestion of such is laudable, it is a terrible occurrence that any citizen should even have to consider sterilization or be faced with natural sterilization due to environmental or medicinal factor, though this does not mean that there are no, zero, that is 0/infinity times where forced sterilization could provide a insurance that a particularly nasty genetic mutation could not be passed on, or that a criminally insane woman not be allowed carry and raise a child ... as to do so is to endanger the child's life.
Anyway, if there already exist any number of citizens who CHOOSE sterilization of their own free will, the implementation of forced sterilization within a 0.005% of a population as a safety precaution would simply be cleaning up the outliers, and my heart goes out to each and every one of them in such an unfortunate hard place, though I can, as a rational man, see the sense in their choice, or forced sterilization.

Once again, I do not promote the sterilization of large numbers of people for the motive of culling a populations numbers or getting rid of a political/religious or social movement. I only see the sense in the 0.0005% of the forced sterilization where the child's life would be endangered by being birthed by a mother ill equipped to safely go through the natural wonder of pregnancy due to serious genetic flaw, criminal insanity, or perpetual irreversible environmental risk

Similarly some judges impose prison sentences ... clearly this is not chosen by a consenting member of society, though it does benefit a community reducing the dangerous individuals on the street with free will and access to any number of very hard and very swingable bars.

https://www.chem.wisc.edu...
would you want a dangerous man or woman walking around with this is their hand?

I simply re-state my original position that in certain extreme situations to force a member of society to undergo sterilization for the protection of themselves, their children or their society for the reasons carefully explored in my first argument and would be justified as the damage caused to them by sterilization is far less than the physical or physiological damage caused due to a death of mother and child during the pregnancy.
However I find your argument cyclical, you over and over again try to release your frustration that it should be a choice ... sure it should, I can't disagree with you there .. as should it be the choice of a man who thinks he is dangerous to turn himself into the judicial system for rehabilitation, though that doesn't mean we should do away with FORCED imprisoning either!

It's a terribly dark corridor, and should only be illuminated in the direst of situations, though to deny the existence of such situations completely would be to succumb to naivety and ignorance, instead we must remain ever vigilant as to what we as citizens of the earth can do to alleviate others suffering and provide where we can support to those facing challenging times.
Debate Round No. 2
KJVPrewrather

Con

Bodily autonomy is a human right. You don't have the right to choose for someone's reproductive organs. If the government can dicte who does and does not reproduce, they may eventually choose forced euthanasia for victims. This is my body body, I have the right to choose.
AlexandreTheThriceGreat

Pro

Yes.

A medical professional may overrule your decision if it is for the safety of you and your child.
Debate Round No. 3
KJVPrewrather

Con

Forced sterilization of entire populations causes them to die off, and is a form of genocide.
AlexandreTheThriceGreat

Pro

Forced sterilization of entire populations is indeed a unjustifiable.
That is not my argument.

Also, some tyrannies are not only justifiable, but hugely successful .. leaders with visions - mass movement of people to support and bring to life the dreams for a better future - and eventually the overthrowing of an imperial class for the redistribution of wealth, within a world with a better grasp upon science and technology.
Debate Round No. 4
KJVPrewrather

Con

Who will pay for all of this? Who will manage the mas riots? Progressives like me don't believe in forced sterilization, but support VOLUNARY sterilizations, such as the proceedure I had. The government would ruin the doctor and patient relationship, and turn doctors into agents of the stste. Forced sterilization if eugenics and cannot cooexist with the US Constitution, as it is cruel and unusual punishment.
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Debate Round No. 5
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