The Instigator
NKJVPrewrather
Pro (for)
The Contender
kwagga_la
Con (against)

Is onlyism regarding a Bible translation a cult?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/27/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 487 times Debate No: 113196
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (7)
Votes (0)

 

NKJVPrewrather

Pro

I say yes. I used to be an onlyist regarding the KJV and then the NKJV respectively, and I feel fear for leaving that movement. It is okay to use thinking skills and question a particular passage in a translation, but with the rare case of the JW translation which leaves the reader questioning the faithfulness of the translation, most translations are 90-99% faithful depending on the translation method respectively, but again, this is a Colossians 2 issue, not a John 14:6 issue. https://www.gotquestions.org... Only Christ through Holy Spirit is the Sole (I did that on purpose) arbiter of salvation, not Christians like me with limititations, and we all have limitiations. Some reading for you: Colossians 2: https://www.biblegateway.com... Jogn 14:6: https://www.biblegateway.com... I will leave you with this: Some people are mentally ten years old or youngers, don't they deserve to know Jesus through a dynamic thought for thought? Perfect love casts out fear for fear involves torture, but he who trusts God has been made perfect in love. That was a paraphrase of scripture.
kwagga_la

Con

Thank you for starting the debate. To begin let's look at a random definition found on Google that describes a cult:

cult
kA2;lt/Submit
noun: cult; plural noun: cults
1. a system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object. "the cult of St Olaf" a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or as imposing excessive control over members. "a network of Satan-worshipping cults" synonyms:sect, religious group, denomination, religious order, church, faith, faith community, belief, persuasion, affiliation, movement; More group, body, faction, clique "a religious cult" a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular thing. "the cult of the pursuit of money as an end in itself" synonyms: obsession with, fixation on, mania for, passion for; More idolization of, admiration for, devotion to, worship of, veneration of, reverence for "the cult of youth and beauty in Hollywood"
2. a person or thing that is popular or fashionable among a particular group or section of society. "the series has become a bit of a cult in the UK" synonyms:craze, fashion, fad, vogue; informalthing "the series has become a bit of a cult in the UK". https://www.google.com.sg...

If we look at some of the definitions above then just about everything can be a cult including people who venerate Christ! However, one of the points mentioned is that a cult is also considered to be people who deviate from the norm or strange and imposing excessive control over people. For this round I would like to ask my opponent what a cult is according to Christian beliefs? I will define a cult in relation to Christianity as people who believe doctrines contrary to the Orthodox Christian faith and who also engage in practices that opposes the Orthodox Christian faith.

We can simplify the matter by applying the same reasoning to Bible translations and interpretation. If the normal way of translating was literal and only certain manuscript types were considered the true ones then a deviation from this norm could probably be referred to as a cult. The question, however remains, are the overall doctrinal views in accordance with Orthodox Christianity? Do they still believe in a Triune God, in the deity of Christ, in the Holy Spirit, in Christ's atoning death and resurrection? If so then they cannot be classified as cultists in relation to the Christian faith. What the debate proposition implies is that you might have someone who is not a cultist in relation to the Christian faith but at the same time a cultist in relation to which Bible he/she uses or translation method. From the outset this seems a bit strange to me because the only way you can really be a cultist according to the Bible you use and translation method you use is if the Bible and translation method radically differed and contradicted the Orthodox faith.

Perhaps my opponent can also define KJV onlyism in the next round? I have come across about 5 different definitions and the link posted in the opening round only mentions about two possible definitions.

I ask my opponent to please provide evidence that a literal translation method was not used during the ages to justify calling people cultists who do follow this method.

I also ask my opponent to please provide evidence that people did not use the Jacob Ben Chayim and Textus Receptus manuscripts that underlying the KJV to justify calling people cultists who use them because they believe these are the true manuscripts.

Thank you!
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Debate Round No. 5
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by jtlove 3 years ago
jtlove
Sonofcharl: "The Bible is merely a book or compilation of texts, that were written by the hands of men.
Faith is a word, also created by men.
The definition of the word is the same, whether in a biblical context or otherwise.
Faith is not proof of anything other than human gullibility."

True...faith just merely means to trust. Why do you scoff and infer to be Christian is to be gullible? Was it not you who did not me labeling people? Why can't you respect others belief system that differs from yours? I would argue that it takes more Faith to trust in Evolution...than it does the Bible. Have you ever considered the number of assumptions that are made in macroevolution theory? I only have to make one assumption per say for my belief system to hold true. How many assumptions does your's take?

Assumption: a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without PROOF.

How many assumptions are made for the Big Bang Theory to hold true...keyword is theory.
What about the belief that Nothing...became Something...became Everything. How many assumptions have to be made for a non-life to become life. Then develop into every living thing?

Now I'm not talking about microevolution, the mutation of an organism like bacteria, or birds' beaks. I'm talking about a change in Genre...When has that been accomplished by Science or Observed?

So Faith is kind of like what science calls an Assumption.

Happy debating!
Posted by jtlove 3 years ago
jtlove
Sonofcharl: "Blind faith is the acceptance of something without evidence or proof. That is to say, there is no reliable evidence that validates the God theory. People will always follow a given principle if they have been conditioned to do so."

This may be your definition of blind faith, however, it is not how the Bible defines blind faith. Not that I expect you to understand, but the Bible teaches that we can see God in the design/complexity of nature. We have His revealed word the Bible and by studying and knowing His word we develop Faith in Him. Not blind faith, but a true trust in God. So only by redefining what "blind faith" means from a definition that is over serval millennia-old does your premise hold true.

"I was referring to the reality of the universe. Merely a personal observation of a greater reality, far beyond the importance of mankind and it's supposed, Gods."

Understand, and thanks for clarifying. When you make up definitions or change definitions it sometimes hard to understand where people are coming from.

"It was interesting to see how keen you were to label people as Universal Realists.
Can't people just simply be individuals?"

I did not label people as Univeral Realist...That is your term in which I could not find. I was just arguing that if you call Christians a cult, they by far outnumber any other belief system. So, it is Universal Realist who ought to be label as a cult long before Christians.

Sure, people can be people and there is nothing wrong with that. In fact, I respect individuals beliefs. But it was You who labeled first...or one might say cast the first stone...I just merely pointed out the holes in your premise.
Posted by Sonofcharl 3 years ago
Sonofcharl
The Bible is merely a book or compilation of texts, that were written by the hands of men.
Faith is a word, also created by men.
The definition of the word is the same, whether in a biblical context or otherwise.
Faith is not proof of anything other than human gullibility.

Enjoy your debate.
Posted by kwagga_la 3 years ago
kwagga_la
@Sonofcharl From the post below we know what your definition of faith is but can you please tell us what the Biblical definition of faith is? After all, you are arguing against the Bible so it is only reasonable to argue against what the Bible says faith is and not your own personal opinion.
Posted by Sonofcharl 3 years ago
Sonofcharl
jtlove:

By definition the Christian God and the Bible are cultish. It doesn't matter how many followers there may be.

Blind faith is the acceptance of something without evidence or proof. That is to say, there is no reliable evidence that validates the God theory. People will always follow a given principle if they have been conditioned to do so.

It was interesting to see how keen you were to label people as Universal Realists.
Can't people just simply be individuals?

I was referring to the reality of the universe. Merely a personal observation of a greater reality, far beyond the importance of mankind and it's supposed Gods.
Posted by jtlove 3 years ago
jtlove
Sonofcharl:

How do you conclude accepting God and the Bible is a blind faith?

Cult: 1. a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.

2. a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.
"a network of Satan-worshiping cults"
synonyms: sect " religious group " denomination " religious order " church " faith " faith community " belief " persuasion " affiliation " movement " group " body " faction " clique

Christianity is not a cult with 2.22 billion followers worldwide, is hardly a cult. In fact, Christianity is the largest religion in the world. Are claiming 2.22 billion people are incorrect in what they believe?

Universal Realism? I can't even find a definition for Univeral Realism. How many people are Univeral Realist? Is it fewer than 2.22 billion people? Can you point me to some literature describing the beliefs and doctrine of Univeral Realism?
Posted by Sonofcharl 3 years ago
Sonofcharl
Anything can be regarded as a cult.
Christianity is a cult.
Veneration and devotion to a cigarette butt on the pavement would be cultish.

You've accepted God and a Bible with blind faith.
If you truly want to free your mind. Then exorcise it, of all the religious nonsense you've got stored in there.

Start again with Universal Realism and reprogram your brain in a more logical and rational way.

If you want to stick an ism on the end of something, try sticking it on the end of sensible.

Best wishes.
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