The Instigator
WrickItRalph
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Speedrace
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Is the border wall good for america?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/23/2019 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,125 times Debate No: 120426
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (43)
Votes (0)

 

WrickItRalph

Pro

I'm going to have some fun and argue for a position that I don't actually believe in. Here are your choices.

Christianity
Donald Trump
Build The Wall
The War On Drugs

You can choose any topic from these sections, But I have to be the one to argue for their positive side. I open the floor.
Speedrace

Con

Thank you for making this interesting debate! I hope to have fun. :D

I will name 5 reasons (premises) why the border wall is bad for the U. S. Just to clarify, This is not border walls in general, But specifically, The border wall that the President is advocating for. The reasons are as follows:
  1. It will not stop drug trafficking.
  2. It will not stop illegal immigration.
  3. It promotes xenophobia.
  4. It wastes an enormous amount of money.
  5. It wastes time and labor.

Premise 1:

Experts have shown that the majority of drugs are not coming across the border, But across legal ports of entry.

"According to U. S. Customs and Border Protection statistics, 90 percent of heroin seized along the border, 88 percent of cocaine, 87 percent of methamphetamine, And 80 percent of fentanyl in the first 11 months of the 2018 fiscal year was caught trying to be smuggled in at legal crossing points. "

Besides this, Drug smugglers themselves have admitted the same facts:

". . . Intelligence received from arrested smugglers and law enforcement partners in Mexico indicate that cartels clearly prefer moving high-profit narcotics through the busy ports of entry because their chances of success are better there. . . the sheer volume of traffic means smugglers' odds are still better going through there than other parts of the border. . . Vice President Mike Pence was the first to acknowledge in an op-ed column published in USA TODAY on Tuesday that those drugs "primarily" enter the country through ports of entry. . . Several of [El Chapo's] cartel members have testified that they mostly pushed drugs through U. S. Ports of entry. . . None. . . Testified that they moved drugs through the open border regions in between those ports. "

Clearly, The border wall will not be able to stop drug trafficking.

Premise 2:

Ways to get into the U. S. When a border wall is present:

Through:

"One storm in Texas left a hole for months. Fences and walls can also erode near rivers or beaches, As the one in San Diego did. And they can be penetrated: Some fencing can be cut in minutes, And the Border Patrol reported repairing more than 4, 000 holes in one year alone. "

Over:

"Much of the current fencing can be easily mounted with a ladder or from the roof of a truck. In some cases, Border crossers can scale the fence without any additional equipment. One viral video from 2010 shows two women easily climbing an 18-foot steel bollard-style pedestrian fence in less than 20 seconds. Smugglers can even drive over the fence using ramps. . . "

Under:

"Tunnels are typically used more for drug smuggling, But they still create a significant vulnerability in any kind of physical barrier. From 2007 to 2010, The Border Patrol found more than one tunnel per month, On average. “For every tunnel we find, We feel they’re building another one somewhere". . A wall would likely increase the rewards for successful tunneling as other modes of transit grow more expensive. "

Through Gaps:

"Border Patrol agents have told Fox News that a border wall would still “have to allow water to pass through, Or the sheer force of raging water could damage its integrity. . . In 2011, For example, A flood in Arizona washed away 40 feet of steel fence. "

Clearly, A border wall can do nothing to stop a determined immigrant.

Premise 3:

If a border wall goes up, Our children will learn about it. They will grow up being told that "we have to keep the bad people out. " This will only serve to increase xenophobia, Which incorrectly criminalizes innocent people.

Premise 4:

As I have already shown, The border wall will accomplish none of the goals for which it was built. It is a waste of billions of dollars, Which can go to sectors such as:

  • Welfare
  • Public services (libraries, Fire departments, Etc. )
  • Public transportation
  • Fixing public buildings and streets
  • Reducing the national debt
  • Public education


Premise 5:

How long will it take to build the border wall?

"One expert. . . Recently estimated that it could take 11 years for 10, 000 workers to build 1, 000 miles of steel border barrier, A length Trump had called for on numerous occasions during the campaign. "

So not only does this waste money, But it wastes the labor equivalent to 10, 000 workers who work for 11 years on a wall that I have proven will not accomplish it's job.


To conclude, The border wall is bad for America, And should not be built.

Over to you!

Debate Round No. 1
WrickItRalph

Pro

Alright, Let me don the conservative mind set. "it's gonna be huuuge" "huuge" "uuuuge" There we go.

Alright, So I think we should build a massive wall and make it as uuuge as possible.

*drug trafficking*

As a conservative, Drugs are bad m'kay? We need to stop as many of them as possible in square inches. So we build the wall and then then just thoroughly search each and every car at the check points. Cause privacy is for smelly liberals am I right?

*It will not stop illegal immigration*

Probably not, But it will lower the amount. Less immigration is good m'kay? We'll just post the whole national guard on the walls and have them equipped with riot gear to deter would be wall breakers. If mother nature tears the wall, Then I'll just make mother nature pay for the whole thing, Lol. Jk. I'll just make us pay for it. It's a lot of money, But don't you want to be safe. People are scary and bring scary things across the border. It's worth every penny. You wouldn't build a house with 3 walls would you? Nope, Our country is just a house with 3 walls. Heck, If Canada keeps being all weird and French we'll have to build the Niagra walls next. ;)

xenophobia is good m'kay. People are scary and we should definitely not interact with them. 'murica did it right the first time and we should just take their scientists and beauty pageant winners and let the rest rot. Also, Global warming is fake m'kay? That's not a non sequitur because I made a really uuge deal and now it's a sequitur.

Yeah it's a lot of money. But seriously we waste money on public assistance all the time, Let's buy ourselves something nice for once. The CEOs are looking out for us so don't worry about it. Regan was the shiz and trickle down economics will save us. We just haven't waited enough decades for it to do the job, Be patient and show up to work.

time and labor is more jobs. You don't want more jobs? I want more jobs. This guy doesn't want us to have more jobs!

I think I nailed it. That was a pretty good speech, It was a good speech, Lots of people liked that speech. Putin told me it was a very very good speech. Putin can't be wrong, Have you seen the supermodels he hangs out with?
Speedrace

Con

I apologize for not sharing my resources in my last argument. Here they are:

https://www. Cato. Org. . .
https://www. Usatoday. Com. . .

"Drugs are bad m'kay? We need to stop as many of them as possible in square inches. So we build the wall and then then just thoroughly search each and every car at the check points. "

As I proved in premise 1, The wall will not stop drug trafficking. We are also already thoroughly searching cars, So that is not a solution.

Premise 1 stands.

"Probably not, But it will lower the amount. Less immigration is good m'kay? We'll just post the whole national guard on the walls and have them equipped with riot gear to deter would be wall breakers. If mother nature tears the wall. . . I'll just make us pay for it. It's a lot of money, But don't you want to be safe. People are scary and bring scary things across the border. It's worth every penny. "

Where is your proof that it will lower immigration? And there are not enough people to guard the whole wall.

Premise 2 stands.

"xenophobia is good m'kay. People are scary and we should definitely not interact with them. "

Xenophobia is not ok, It never is. There is no proof that the majority of Mexicans are criminals, Because they aren't.

Premise 3 stands.

"Yeah it's a lot of money. But seriously we waste money on public assistance all the time, Let's buy ourselves something nice for once"

Just because we waste money on public assistance does not make it ok to waste it on a border wall. Also, That statement is an admission that we will waste money on the border wall.

Premise 4 stands.

"time and labor is more jobs. You don't want more jobs? I want more jobs. This guy doesn't want us to have more jobs! "

I do, But I don't want those jobs to be wasted on things that won't help us, Like the border wall which I proved will not help us.

Premise 5 stands.
Debate Round No. 2
WrickItRalph

Pro

Alright, Lets see if I can snake out of this mess.

Premiss 1

If the wall stops even one drug from getting through. Then it's worth it. That one drug might be the one that doesn't get sold to YOUR (points at the audience) son or daughter.

Premiss to

Proof, Right. . . . So yeah since it's a big a$$ wall, It logically follows that it would prevent at least one person from getting in m'kay? And that one person could be the one that steals YOUR (Points at everyone in a sweeping motion) Job.

Premiss thri

Well, We can't prove they're not criminals either, So that makes them scary. Scary people = wall. It's simple logic dude.

Premiss for

I mean the people want it. It's their tax money, So let's build the darn thing. The people have spoken.

Premiss fiv

Jobs are job man? Why do you have to hate jobs. We need as many as possible. Who cares what they're doing as long as we feed them. If we don't give them jobs, They'll end up on welfare and you'll have to pay for them anyway.
That's a catch 2. . . "". .

I know it's suppose to be your floor. But I made this really big deal so you should just give me the floor again because, Let's face it. I'm really good at this. My advisor says I'm good at this, Putin says I'm good at this. My forkin dog, KNOWS I'm good at this. He looks at me, He barks, And he's saying "good job" and I'm like you 2 dog.
Speedrace

Con

"If the wall stops even one drug from getting through. Then it's worth it. That one drug might be the one that doesn't get sold to YOUR (points at the audience) son or daughter. "

No, The wall must stop a MAJORITY of drugs from getting through, And I have proven that it won't. Spending billions to stop 1 drug is not even close to worth it, And it helps to reaffirm premise 4.

Premise 1 stands.

"Proof, Right. . . . So yeah since it's a big a$$ wall, It logically follows that it would prevent at least one person from getting in m'kay? And that one person could be the one that steals YOUR (Points at everyone in a sweeping motion) Job. "

Again, It must stop a majority, And I have proven that it won't.

Premise 2 stands.

"Well, We can't prove they're not criminals either, So that makes them scary. Scary people = wall. It's simple logic dude. "

Our own justice system tells us to treat people as innocent until proven guilty. So since you admitted that you can't prove them guilty, We must treat them as if they are innocent.

Premise 3 stands.

"I mean the people want it. It's their tax money, So let's build the darn thing. The people have spoken. "

"only 4 in 10 favor building a wall. "

https://www. Washingtonpost. Com. . .

That's a lie.

Premise 4 stands.

Premiss fiv

Jobs are job man? Why do you have to hate jobs. We need as many as possible. Who cares what they're doing as long as we feed them. If we don't give them jobs, They'll end up on welfare and you'll have to pay for them anyway.
That's a catch 2. . . "". .

Jobs shouldn't be wasted "man, " which is exactly what those jobs will be.

Premise 5 stands.

"I know it's suppose to be your floor. But I made this really big deal so you should just give me the floor again because, Let's face it. I'm really good at this. My advisor says I'm good at this, Putin says I'm good at this. My forkin dog, KNOWS I'm good at this. He looks at me, He barks, And he's saying "good job" and I'm like you 2 dog. "

You said at your rally that you don't have a dog or time to take care of a dog. More lies.
Debate Round No. 3
WrickItRalph

Pro

Okay, So there are millions of hardworking Americans that want to fight the war on drugs and America has spoken and said that the wall is good to this end. The wall will be up for decades and, While it might not be the deciding factor, It will contribute to slowing drug traffic even if it's only by a little bit. We can impose harsh punishment on international drug smugglers that cross the border and they'll think twice about coming here.

I'm willing to admit that some people will get through. No solution is perfect. The wall will be a shining example of our intolerance :) to illegal immigration. The ones going through the check points will be vetted and that's more important than how many actually get in. The ones that sneak through can just get deported.

Innocent till proven guilty, Innocent. . . Till. Proven guilty. . . Gotta remember that one. Okay I concede the premise whole sale.

I will remind you that America is designed so that the majority can't impose itself over the minority. So this 4 out of 10 example is just showing that democracy works and that the minority can have a say too. Isn't it a beautiful thing?

They're only wasted jobs in your opinion. The people working on the wall who get to bring food home to their family aren't going to consider it "wasted" You might want to ask yourself "wasted for whom? " I can give an example. During the great depression. The current president "FDR I think, I'm embarrassed that I don't remember" would commission people to do useless jobs, Such as moving rocks back and forth across the street. Because he knew that keeping them busy and paid was good for their health and self esteem. So there is president for useless jobs being productive.

Hey! A LOT of people showed up to that rally A LOT. Are you trying to say that I don't have enough money for people to show up? I'm gonna sue your a$$
Speedrace

Con

"Okay, So there are millions of hardworking Americans that want to fight the war on drugs and America has spoken and said that the wall is good to this end. The wall will be up for decades and, While it might not be the deciding factor, It will contribute to slowing drug traffic even if it's only by a little bit. We can impose harsh punishment on international drug smugglers that cross the border and they'll think twice about coming here. "

I have already shown that if it is a little bit, Then that is still a waste of money. It must be a majority. And we are already imposing harsh punishment on drug smugglers, That is not a solution that hasn't already been tried.

"I'm willing to admit that some people will get through. No solution is perfect. The wall will be a shining example of our intolerance :) to illegal immigration. The ones going through the check points will be vetted and that's more important than how many actually get in. The ones that sneak through can just get deported. "

The one's going through the check points are already being vetted. And the ones sneaking in are already being deported. This is still not a reason to justify the border wall.

"Innocent till proven guilty, Innocent. . . Till. Proven guilty. . . Gotta remember that one. Okay I concede the premise whole sale. "

Thanks bb <3

Jk ew gross cooties

"I will remind you that America is designed so that the majority can't impose itself over the minority. So this 4 out of 10 example is just showing that democracy works and that the minority can have a say too. Isn't it a beautiful thing? "

If it's anything like when the minority imposed themself over the majority in your an election, Ugly would be a better adjective.

"They're only wasted jobs in your opinion. The people working on the wall who get to bring food home to their family aren't going to consider it "wasted" You might want to ask yourself "wasted for whom? " I can give an example. During the great depression. The current president "FDR I think, I'm embarrassed that I don't remember" would commission people to do useless jobs, Such as moving rocks back and forth across the street. Because he knew that keeping them busy and paid was good for their health and self esteem. So there is president for useless jobs being productive. "

Waste: use or expend carelessly, Extravagantly, Or to no purpose.

I have already proven that the border will not accomplish its purpose, So those jobs will be a waste.

"Hey! A LOT of people showed up to that rally A LOT. Are you trying to say that I don't have enough money for people to show up? I'm gonna sue your a$$"

Try it, Buddy, I can handle Rudy Guiliani any day.
Debate Round No. 4
WrickItRalph

Pro

Okay, I've had my fun. Thanks for faux debating me. I would just like to reiterate that I don't believe anything that I just said in this debate DON'T BUILD THE WALL. Thanks for playing.
Speedrace

Con

Thank you! Voters pls vote for me thx lel
Debate Round No. 5
43 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
WAT. Promotes xenophobia. Are you kidding me. The wall in the vatican is racist then
Posted by Christen 3 years ago
Christen
I'm willing to debate either one of you. I've already refuted all 5 of your main arguments.

It will not stop drug trafficking.
It will not stop illegal immigration.

A wall is not meant to "stop" drug trafficking. It is meant to deter it and make it harder for it to happen. Same with illegal immigration.

It promotes xenophobia.

The wall is just a big pile of wood/metal expanding across the border. It isn't promoting xenophobia. We don't care about xenophobia anyways, We care about safety and security.

It wastes an enormous amount of money.
It wastes time and labor.

Evidence shows that walls can help deter immigrants, Thus it is not a waste of money. It doesn't waste time and labor, But rather it does the opposite. It creates labor because it leads to more jobs, So that more workers can develop the wall.
Posted by Speedrace 3 years ago
Speedrace
@Christen

You do realize that he was being satiric and doesn't actually believe that, Right?
Posted by Speedrace 3 years ago
Speedrace
Oh him -_-
Posted by Speedrace 3 years ago
Speedrace
Me? Sure!
Posted by Christen 3 years ago
Christen
If you don't mind I would like to debate one of you on this matter, Myself.
Posted by Christen 3 years ago
Christen
@WrickItRalph
I'm pretty sure the border will be effective in at least lowering illegal immigration. Also, The money that we use to fund it isn't going to be much of an issue if it helps reduce illegal immigration, Which can actually safe us money.
Why can't we spend money improving the vetting process, Promoting legal immigration, And have a wall? There is no need to ditch one idea for another, So let's try both.
It is true that crossing the border is not actually a crime. This is a loophole that the Trump administration is working on fixing. What Trump is trying to do is change it so that people have to go through a legal port of entry to seek asylum, And our current law allows them to cross the border and still seek asylum.
Seeking asylum is supposed to be difficult. The whole purpose of asylum is to basically filter out the bad people from the good people. It isn't perfect, And sometimes bad people will still get asylum, But if you just make it easier, Then you make it easier for those bad people.
How is trying to make our border more secure "morally wrong and quite frankly unamerican"? I don't understand this at all.
This country was built on immigrants, Yes, But it was legal immigrants, Not illegal immigrants. I'm not denying that immigrants helped set up the country, But it has to be legal, Not illegal.
You gave up on this debate too quickly, In my opinion. All Speedrace did was claim that, Because the wall isn't 100% perfect, It's useless, And being imperfect isn't the same as being useless.
Posted by Speedrace 3 years ago
Speedrace
I don't care about any of those. . .

I guess the maximum wages one then
Posted by WrickItRalph 3 years ago
WrickItRalph
Sure. We could do. . .

C-Sections should only be done in emergencies. (Pro)
Same-Sex Marriage (Pro)
Same-Sex Adoption (Pro)
Maximum Wages for CEOs (Pro)
Government Funded Temp Services (Pro)
Drug Testing (Con)
Legalize Drugs (Pro)

That's all I can think of for now.
Posted by Speedrace 3 years ago
Speedrace
no u

But seriously I'm really bad at coming up with ideas

Could you at least come up with a list and let me choose?
No votes have been placed for this debate.

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