The Instigator
VincentBurda
Con (against)
The Contender
Coveny
Pro (for)

Is third wave feminsim still feminism

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/27/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 901 times Debate No: 102252
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (16)
Votes (0)

 

VincentBurda

Con

I believe that what feminism stood for when it was first started was actually fighting for equal rights for women. things like owning land and voting were things women should have been able to do but now all i see is a bunch of "gender queer" people getting on buzzfeed and complaining about video games. i am not trying to make jokes about this even there are literally women who complain about things that have nothing to do with them and i believe that this should be stopped
Coveny

Pro

Feminism is defined as "equality of the sexes". It is not just about women; it covers men as well. Now technically you could use the term masculism, but as it should mean equality of the sexes they are two words with the same thing meaning, and feminism is already in use and common. So feminism does cover the whole spectrum of gender, and yes it covers things that have nothing to do with women.

First wave, second wave, third wave are merely labels that are put on feminism to vilify it. It"s all just feminism. Feminism is about equality, and that means that central characters being 57% male and only 31% female is not equality in books.
https://www.theguardian.com...

In 2010 EEDAR released a study finding 90% of all genre of games having male lead role, while only 51% could have female lead role, which is not equality in games.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com...

Although the 23% wage gap has to do with choices that women make, and is therefore a dishonest comparison. When you compare the same job title with comparable backgrounds and experience women still get paid 5 to 8% less than men.
Glassdoor = 5.4% still unexplained - https://www.glassdoor.com...
Payscale = 7% still unexplained. - http://www.payscale.com...
Washington Post = 8% still unexplained - https://www.washingtonpost.com...

When you look into fortune 500 company CEOs the number even get worse. Only 25 companies in the fortune 500 (that's 5%) have female CEOs.
http://fortune.com...

Also women are almost twice as likely to be the victims severe physical violence by an inmate partner. As well as 1 in 5 women will be raped in their lifetime, where is only 1 in 71 men will be raped.
http://ncadv.org...

Which likely plays a part in why only 25 percent of women are consistently orgasmic during vaginal intercourse. (The psyhcological issue here have got to be pretty strong)
https://www.psychologytoday.com...

I could go on, but ya feminism is still needed, and valid. So please stop trying to discredit it, and pretending like women already have equality"
Debate Round No. 1
VincentBurda

Con

While there maybe certain "labels" of feminism i disagree with your statement that feminism is still the same. The evidence to my argument is publicly available on a majority of pro feminism YouTube channels and blog posts. There are women that literally belive that eliminating all men is the best way possible to create a "equal" world. There still is real feminism left in the world but there are very few women doing things to combat the kinks women face everyday. But like i said very few as to the majority is sitting around the buzzfeed offices complaining about video games or pushing fat acceptance or other sjw/liberal ideals. Reguarding the wage gap, i like that you pulled up actual statistics of men and women working the same job and position. But my counter argument is that 5 to 8% doesn't stop women from becoming leaders of the household. If in a well paying job that woman had to work her butt off for as much as the man did to get there that 5 to 8% becomes small as the woman can still provide for the man and the house aswell the kids.
Coveny

Pro

For reference this is what feminism means from several sources:

Merriam-Webster - the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
https://www.merriam-webster.com......

Dictionary.com - the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.
http://www.dictionary.com......

Oxford - The advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com......

Feminism is about equality of the sexes, that"s it" as I posted in the first round. When you say third wave feminism or intersectional feminism or whatever other label you add to feminism to try and discredited all you are doing is trying to change the meaning so you have a strawman to justify your sexism because you can "defeat" feminism if you make it about more than just equal rights.

Next let"s talk about Fallacy of composition. It"s where you infer that some small portion of a group (like the ones who say that men should be eliminated) and judge the whole group on that small subset of data. It"s like saying all men are rapist because there are men that rape. It has no bases in reality, and it"s dishonest.

85% of women believe in equality for women. There are roughly 160 million women in the US, that means 136 million women believe in equality for women, but because of BS like what you are doing to smear feminism, and make it a dirty word only 18% of women identify of feminist. So even though they have very valid proof that the world is not equal for them (as I proved in the first round that you have not refuted any of" I mean ANY of, you just ignored it completely), they have stop fighting for equality"

And response to the 5-8% wage gap is the very heart of the problem. You see a sexist wage gap, and rather than thinking it needs to be fixed" you think it"s ok she should have to work harder. You think it"s fine that a woman gets paid less than you to do the same work. You spout about how there is no need for feminism, and you have NO problem screwing women out of money they deserve. And as I"ve already show it"s not just pay, there is a gap in many different fields. Sure, it"s close, but it"s not equal, and it just pisses you off that they won"t shut up and just be happy with getting close, right?

Look I get it Vincent. You are a guy, and now women want to be treated equal to you, and that chaps your butt because it makes your life harder, so you corrupt their movement to get equality, and make them out to be the bad guys even though they have facts showing that you are the bad guy. Finally, after you"ve beaten them down enough, most of them getting tired of fighting, and think just like you" it"s close to equality. And they think, is it worth all this hate just to get a few more percentage points? So, they give up, but that"s nothing more than being a bully, and that sure doesn"t make you RIGHT. They do NOT have equality, and you are NOT the victim in this scenario.
Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 11 through 16 records.
Posted by Coveny 3 years ago
Coveny
Harleygator if you believe I started the personal attacks please paste my statement that was a personal attack. Also, while I"m at it, how is it even possible for my definitions not be facts? I"m linking the sources which say exactly what I"m posting in the debate. Just because you don"t like the facts doesn"t mean I"m attacking you, or that the facts aren"t the facts"
Posted by Fernyx 3 years ago
Fernyx
A definition cannot define a movement as the people in the movement do not all fall under a definition. Actions define a movement, not definitions.
Posted by Harleygator 3 years ago
Harleygator
Coveny, I have only seen two of your debates, and in both examples you personally attack your opponent by stating that they are motivated by bigotry, rather than any concern for facts. And the "facts" you attempt to present to support your arguments are not facts at all, nor are the definitions you use. You are debating third-wave feminism, which is distinct from definitional feminism. That your opponent presents a less structured argument than you do does not excuse blatant misrepresentation of the motion or the facts.
Posted by Coveny 3 years ago
Coveny
Feminism is just equal rights between the sexes. I'm so tired of people creating strawmen so they have an easy target. Women want equality. They don't have equality per numerous sources across numerous fields, and yet people like you want to dismiss it, and say they are equal, because they are closer to equal than they have ever been, so you think they should just shut up and be happy about what you've given them. pfft

For reference. (I can get more saying the same definition of Feminism if you need them)

Merriam-Webster - the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
https://www.merriam-webster.com...

Dictionary.com - the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.
http://www.dictionary.com...

Oxford - The advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com...
Posted by CrucifixOpinions 3 years ago
CrucifixOpinions
I believe Feminism is the process that gets women's rights up to the standard that men hold. Why call a movement that has the term "feminine" in it if it did not target women? This clears a lot of things up, since now you can state that 1st and 2nd Wave Feminism were necessary in order to create equality among the sexes (even then, you could see the "underbelly" of the 3rd wave movement start to form).

But now (as with any movement), 3rd Wave Feminism is starting to eat itself because the whole concept of feminism is that women are oppressed, and therefore, we need to have their rights equal to men's. But now, since there is nothing to fight for anymore (except in the Middle East and other 3rd World Countries), it is beginning to develop categories that distinctly categorize people into who is more oppressed than the other in order to keep itself alive.

That is why 3rd Wave Feminism evolved into Inter sectional Feminism, it needed to sustain itself. So yes, 3rd Wave Feminism is still feminism because focuses and discriminates against anyone who is not a woman. The previous waves did the same thing, but the difference is that they were necessary, 3rd Wave Feminism (while it still is feminism at its core) is unnecessary, and it is doing more damage to sex relations than it is doing good.
Posted by CrucifixOpinions 3 years ago
CrucifixOpinions
I believe Feminism is the process that gets women's rights up to the standard that men hold. Why call a movement that has the term "feminine" in it if it did not target women? This clears a lot of things up, since now you can state that 1st and 2nd Wave Feminism were necessary in order to create equality among the sexes (even then, you could see the "underbelly" of the 3rd wave movement start to form).

But now (as with any movement), 3rd Wave Feminism is starting to eat itself because the whole concept of feminism is that women are oppressed, and therefore, we need to have their rights equal to men's. But now, since there is nothing to fight for anymore (except in the Middle East and other 3rd World Countries), it is beginning to develop categories that distinctly categorize people into who is more oppressed than the other in order to keep itself alive.

That is why 3rd Wave Feminism evolved into Inter sectional Feminism, it needed to sustain itself. So yes, 3rd Wave Feminism is still feminism because focuses and discriminates against anyone who is not a woman. The previous waves did the same thing, but the difference is that they were necessary, 3rd Wave Feminism (while it still is feminism at its core) is unnecessary, and it is doing more damage to sex relations than it is doing good.
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