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The Instigator
killshot
Pro (for)
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The Contender
NBDY.NWHR
Con (against)
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Islam is Not a Religion of Peace

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/4/2019 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 659 times Debate No: 120152
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (16)
Votes (0)

 

killshot

Pro

Islam is not a religion of peace, And it's founder, Muhammad, Was not only illiterate and delusional, But also a violent pedophile. Of all the modern day religions, I contend this is the most dangerous one (currently).
NBDY.NWHR

Con

Of course, As the founder of Islam lived so many centuries ago, It is hard to determine who Mohammad was. Before you go and spout accusations about a man being a violent pedophile, I want definitive evidence because from a reader's point of view, You sound uneducated in the field and believe that Muslim are only terrorist and dirty people.

Now, I want to focus on the core ideas of the Qu'ran which is the holy book of Islam. The Core ideas are known as the Five Pillars of Islam. The ideas represented by the pillars must be followed or the person is NOT considered a real Muslim. One of these pillars is called "Zakat". It essentially means Alms. It states that those who are more fortunate are to give to those who are less fortunate. This may not seem like much, But when you really consider, You are expending resources to those who you are not familiar with purely based on the idea of Zakat.

Before I move on, I want to address the so-called Muslim Extremists. Terror Groups such as ISIS or Al-Queda are factions that hold power in the Middle East often instigating wars with countries like the USA. These groups are radical but not all who fight for the groups are radical. Many of them are simple people who lived simple lives but were forced to fight to ensure the survival of their family. ISIS is quite scary in the Middle East because instead recruiting, They took over towns and forced the men into submission and forced labor. These men are then taught to believe in the radical ideas of the minority who lead the group. Movies like 12 Strong, Which came out fairly recently, Express this clearly. Again, A majority of the Muslim population are friendly and amiable people. It would be unfair to stereotype as terrorists an entire religious group based on less than 2% of its population. If this stereotype were true, Because Islam is the fastest growing religion, There would be no chance for anybody.
Debate Round No. 1
killshot

Pro

I'm starting this rebuttal off saying I don't dislike Muslim people, I dislike their beliefs. I'm not saying there are not good Muslim people, There are.

You said "Of course, As the founder of Islam lived so many centuries ago, It is hard to determine who Mohammad was. Before you go and spout accusations about a man being a violent pedophile, I want definitive evidence because from a reader's point of view, You sound uneducated in the field and believe that Muslim are only terrorist and dirty people. "

Just because a political figure such as Muhammad lived centuries ago, It does not mean we don't know much about him, Especially when he is so popularized for his legacy. As the founder of the world's currently most dangerous religion, I would argue we know enough about him to draw the conclusions I aforementioned.

1) Muhammad was illiterate - he could not read or write. He was referred to as an unlettered Man by the Qur'an itself in 29:48. This is not a disputed fact.

2) Muhammad was delusional - he believed in magic, Such as the creation of Adam from dust, As well as many other ridiculous reality defying things. This by its very definition is delusional. His followers are also delusional for the same reasons. This is something Muslims share with Christians and other Abrahamic followers.

3) Muhammad was a violent pedophile - one of his many wives, Aisha, Was married to him by the age of 6-7 (possibly 9 depending on the source you use). The Qur'an condones domestic violence (4:34) and murder in several places including (2:191).

4) I never said the word terrorist or dirty people, But nice attempt trying to straw man me in your fit of defensive gibberish.

4a) That being said, I do agree that Muslim's are prone to terrorism. This is not an absolute, There are non-terrorist Muslims who do not take their religion entirely literal. However, Even the non-terrorist ones often times do not speak out against their terrorist cohorts. Their faith clearly states that infidels (non-believers) should be killed where they stand and the quickest way to heaven is through Jihad (holy war). Terrorists are not only bad people, They are considered "good" Muslims. They believe what they are doing is right and they are convinced Allah is on their side.

You said "Now, I want to focus on the core ideas of the Qu'ran which is the holy book of Islam. The Core ideas are known as the Five Pillars of Islam. The ideas represented by the pillars must be followed or the person is NOT considered a real Muslim. One of these pillars is called "Zakat". It essentially means Alms. It states that those who are more fortunate are to give to those who are less fortunate. This may not seem like much, But when you really consider, You are expending resources to those who you are not familiar with purely based on the idea of Zakat. "

So there are 5 pillars in Islam that are OBLIGATORY acts of worship, That doesn't mean it's a religion of peace, And it doesn't mean it's practitioners are performing charitable acts willingly. One could argue they are only doing it to meet the requirements of their 5 pillars. I'm not saying this is the case, But being that it is obligatory, It doesn't really help your case.

What is the penalty for apostasy? Since it was a rhetorical question, I'll just answer it - death. Innocent children are indoctrinated in a religiously dogmatic and violent environment where they are coerced into Islam and then threatened with the penalty of death if they leave.

Islam also makes the claim that it is the final revelation and nothing will come after it. It's core doctrine is center-pieced around holy war and domination. Muslims aren't content enough to just coexist and practice their beliefs, They also need to push their religious nonsense into the political domain. Approximately 51% of surveyed Muslims agreed that Muslims in America should have the option to be governed by Sharia Law and courts, According to the CSP survey conducted by The Polling Company. Nearly 1/5 of the Muslim respondents agreed that the use of violence was acceptable to force Sharia Law. Nearly 1/4 of Muslims surveyed agreed that it was acceptable to use violence to punish Islamic offenders. Don't tell me this is a religion of peace.

I'm not even mentioning groups like ISIS and Al-Qaeda.

You said "It would be unfair to stereotype as terrorists an entire religious group based on less than 2% of its population"

There are about 1. 5 billion Muslims. 2% is 30 million. There are 30 million religiously motivated terrorists that all have one thing in common - Islam.
NBDY.NWHR

Con

Muhammad's illiteracy has nothing to do with the nature of Islam. Literacy was also very uncommon as there was no public education and when there was education, It was privately funded. Believing in magic does not make someone delusional. It may have been a cultural aspect of his life. Humans back then had no way of knowing of evolution therefore, They had to fall back on creating myths or stories to try to comprehend certain aspects of the world. For example, Constellations and seasons. Ancient Greeks are well known for creating myths that helped people understand how seasons and constellations came to be. I agree that Christians and Muslims do share a common link, A belief that magic or miracles can happen or exist.

Muhammad was a violent pedophile? Well, It is hard to define pedophiles back then because there wasn't anyone to say that it was immoral or illegal. He was perfectly within his bounds. This in no way means I condone child marriage but his culture allowed it so it happened. Doesn't make him a pedophile because it was allowed, Merely makes him someone who exercises his freedom. I am shaky on the Qur'an condoning domestic violence but again, This was common among all peoples of the world. No laws preventing it or outlawing it. Therefore, The Qur'an didn't condone illegal activity back then. It can also be deduced that the good people who believe in Islam do also comply with modern-day laws so child marriage and domestic violence are likely avoided. (Murder as well of course)

I didn't attempt to 'straw man' you. I stereotyped you. I stereotyped you as a person who is uneducated and merely believes whatever they are told. A racist and an immature person. All just to give you a little perspective on what you are doing to all the people who are Muslim. Think bigger before you jump to conclusions, Good sir.

Muslims are not prone to terrorism. Extremists are. They use Religion and form a cult. Just like the Christian Branch Davidians did at Waco. The faith does believe in fighting to protect the religion but so does Christianity. I think you forget that Neo-Nazis exist. A sort of domestic terrorist if you will. They are not Muslims and Muslims surely do not believe them as good. Another false stereotype of yours. If you do not believe me that Christianity is just a crude and violent, Look at the Crusades. It took only the wave of a hand for thousands of lives to be lost on either side of the war. Christians brutally murdered other Christians en route to the holy and if they refused to join. These people believed that God was on their side and the Pope said they were doing right so they went ahead and killed for the sake of it. Islam is not the most violent.

You said this, "What is the penalty for apostasy? Since it was a rhetorical question, I'll just answer it - death. Innocent children are indoctrinated in a religiously dogmatic and violent environment where they are coerced into Islam and then threatened with the penalty of death if they leave. " As if Islam was the only religion to do so. It isn't. Christians are baptized into the religion practically marking the child as one of God. Punishment of refusing to comply with 'God's word'? ETERNAL DAMNATION in hell of course. Again, This isn't uncommon among religions. If you don't follow the rules of the Religion, You don't get into the happy afterlife. Simple.

Christianity has the same objective. The Crusades proved that. The quote, "Your Kingdom come, Your will be done, On Earth as it is on Heaven. " States that all are to be children of God. All are to believe/be his.

Are you aware of the Council of Trent or the Spanish Inquisition? Funny how Islam is the MOST violent religion if that was Christianity. The pointless loss of life and the suffering caused is insignificant to that of Islam. The Survey you mentioned, Again, Everyone is allowed their own thoughts and beliefs. That does not define a religion.

ISIS and Al-Qaeda are extremists groups that claim to be Muslims. A cult of violence. Just as the Branch Davidians didn't define all of Christianity. The same goes.

"It would be unfair to stereotype as terrorists an entire religious group based on less than 2% of its population"
"Less than 2% of its population"
I couldn't have been specific because there is no way to know. It is most likely less than the number you provided. These people aren't linked by Islam. They are linked by a common enemy they see is plaguing their territory. The USA for example, Wanted oil so an unnecessary war was declared and we still fight a sequel of that war. Many of the people born in the warzone have known nothing but death and fighting because people were greedy. To repeat, A common enemy brought these people together and they believed that their only option was to fight back. So they did. The Same reason a majority of European countries revolted against their conservative leaders in 1848. A common enemy with no way out and no voice to be heard.
Debate Round No. 2
killshot

Pro

You said "Muhammad's illiteracy has nothing to do with the nature of Islam. Literacy was also very uncommon as there was no public education and when there was education, It was privately funded. "

This is incorrect, It has everything to do with Islam as the entire religion was founded by an uneducated, Illiterate and delusional pedophile in a small corner of the world. Why should anyone take it seriously?

You said "Believing in magic does not make someone delusional. "

Yes it does, By definition. A delusion is a belief that is held in spite of it not being in concordance with reality. Magic is not based on reality, Therefore, It's delusional.

You said "Humans back then had no way of knowing of evolution therefore, They had to fall back on creating myths or stories to try to comprehend certain aspects of the world. For example, Constellations and seasons. Ancient Greeks are well known for creating myths that helped people understand how seasons and constellations came to be. I agree that Christians and Muslims do share a common link, A belief that magic or miracles can happen or exist. "

Exactly, But humans in the present day do and they still believe this nonsensical stone age bs they were indoctrinated into despite there being ample evidence against it. They are also delusional, By definition.

You said "Muhammad was a violent pedophile? Well, It is hard to define pedophiles back then because there wasn't anyone to say that it was immoral or illegal. He was perfectly within his bounds. This in no way means I condone child marriage but his culture allowed it so it happened. Doesn't make him a pedophile because it was allowed, Merely makes him someone who exercises his freedom. I am shaky on the Qur'an condoning domestic violence but again, This was common among all peoples of the world. No laws preventing it or outlawing it. Therefore, The Qur'an didn't condone illegal activity back then. It can also be deduced that the good people who believe in Islam do also comply with modern-day laws so child marriage and domestic violence are likely avoided. "

Yes, But Muslims today still marry children, Perform be-headings and genital mutilation. This is still their culture and still within the bounds of their Islamic Law. Just because it's not against their immoral social standards doesn't change the fact that it's wrong and disgusting. The Qu'ran still permits domestic violence. I'm unaware of a "new Qu'ran" that suddenly changed itself. The Qu'ran also not only condones violence, Such as murder, But it requires it (infidels, Apostates, Etc). These are views coerced by religious dogmatic belief and cultural indoctrination. I'm glad you agree it's disgusting and you don't condone it - we agree there.

"I didn't attempt to 'straw man' you. I stereotyped you. I stereotyped you as a person who is uneducated and merely believes whatever they are told. A racist and an immature person. All just to give you a little perspective on what you are doing to all the people who are Muslim. Think bigger before you jump to conclusions, Good sir. "

I haven't jumped to any conclusions, Sir. I have made logical assessments and decisions based on facts. I'm sorry if feelings get hurt, But that doesn't make my assessments wrong.

You said "Muslims are not prone to terrorism. Extremists are. "

So the 51% that agree that their twisted set of moral principles should be accepted, Even by use of force, Don't fall into this argument? Or the silent ones that either support or do not speak against jihadist movements?

You said "The faith does believe in fighting to protect the religion but so does Christianity".

Sure, But I'm not defending Christianity either and this is a straw man, We are talking about Islam here. Saying Islam is dangerous, But so are other religions is not helping your case. Christianity has evolved over the years to become semi docile. The small numbers of Christian extremists are minute in comparison to the 2-51% of active Muslims.

You mistakenly made the argument that somehow slaughtering an Islamic apostate is equivalent to a lie about an eternal made up Hell, Which came from Zoroastrianism, By the way, It wasn't even part of the first temple Judaism. Sure both religions indoctrinate children, And I wholly disagree with this. Christians are free to leave their faith, Without the consequences of Hell, They only need to accept God before they die, And all is well. They can be murderers their whole life and still go to heaven if they just "believe". I agree this belief is absurd, But it's irrelevant to Islam. The penalty for leaving the Islamic faith, However, Is death.

The next few arguments you made were matching Islam against Christianity. You stated that Christianity basically has evil beliefs and a larger head count. I don't disagree, But this doesn't help your argument. This debate is whether or not Islam is a religion of peace or not, Not whether Christianity is less peaceful. I'm not a Christian so these tactics have no affect on me. Islam is not a religion of peace, As it clearly instructs hideous immoral acts.

You said "I couldn't have been specific because there is no way to know. It is most likely less than the number you provided. These people aren't linked by Islam. They are linked by a common enemy they see is plaguing their territory. The USA for example, Wanted oil so an unnecessary war was declared and we still fight a sequel of that war. Many of the people born in the warzone have known nothing but death and fighting because people were greedy. To repeat, A common enemy brought these people together and they believed that their only option was to fight back. So they did. The Same reason a majority of European countries revolted against their conservative leaders in 1848. A common enemy with no way out and no voice to be heard. "

"It is most likely less than. . . ". This all sounds like special pleading and subjective speculation. I provided the name of the survey, Google it.
NBDY.NWHR

Con

NBDY.NWHR forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
NBDY.NWHR

Con

NBDY.NWHR forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
NBDY.NWHR

Con

NBDY.NWHR forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by NBDY.NWHR 3 years ago
NBDY.NWHR
I missed it again! Rip. Exams > Debate. Org D: Sorry again. . .
Posted by killshot 3 years ago
killshot
@NBDY no worries. Happy birthday, By the way!
Posted by NBDY.NWHR 3 years ago
NBDY.NWHR
Sorry about missing the deadline, I was celebrating my birthday and it slipped my mind. I will respond soon after I finish schoolwork. Thanks for understanding.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
It looks more like a tear.
Posted by killshot 3 years ago
killshot
@omar

;) is just a wink
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@killshot

I know this one is smiley face :)
What is the other one? Laughing so much that you are crying?
Posted by killshot 3 years ago
killshot
@omar hahaha
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
What is that? ;)
Posted by killshot 3 years ago
killshot
@omar fair point ;)
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@killshot

Definitions do matter. I think what I have heard is that Muslims define peace in a different way. They define it as submission to the will of Allah. Defining your words does stop them from saying they are peaceful in their own definition and the debate would be centred around actual peace not submission.
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