The Instigator
AKMath
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
DeezNutz11
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

Islam is a Bad Religion | Prove Me Wrong

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
DeezNutz11
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/13/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 696 times Debate No: 115509
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (1)

 

AKMath

Pro

Islam is a Bad Religion | Prove Me Wrong
DeezNutz11

Con

Why would you say Islam is a bad religion? No special reason? If so I would like you to mention them.
I feel that Islam only promotes peace and teaches how to live life the right and acceptable way.
Debate Round No. 1
AKMath

Pro

I disagree. Islam doesn't teach peace. I do in fact have "something"against the religion of Islam and muslims. My main problem is that more than 50% of Muslims are radical Muslims. This includes about 2.2 million radical muslims in America. These people include people who believe ISIS is okay, 9/11 was okay, honor killings of women are okay, and sharia law should be the law of the land. Now into the actual religion. In Surah (3:151) it states all people who don't subject to Islam are not innocent. Surah (9:123) says that anyone who isn't muslim shall be killed. Muhammed was also a very bad guy. He hung two girls for singing satirical songs about him Hisham (819). He also married a 12 year old and sexually abused her. He also married 3 times. In Quran (8:39) it says again to kill all non believers. And finally about looks. I don't think women should wear hijabs, burkas, etc. because it was made to oppress women by Muhammed. I hope you see where I'm coming from.
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DeezNutz11

Con

I get where you are coming from and I understand what you are trying to say. Firstly, I would like to clear out that not all muslims believe in ISIS and unfortunately the few that believe in ISIS are causing bad for the other muslims that do not believe.

Yes Surah (9:123) says that anyone who isn't muslim shall be killed. Actually the verse basically says that "And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."
Whenever critics bring verses of the Quran to demonstrate that Islam is violent, that it sanctions Muslims to kill non-Muslims (as claimed by them), they do a cut and paste of a verse and try hide its context. They don't show the previous and the verses after, what it actually says.
First, to understand a Quranic verse, you need also to be acquainted with the Arabic history of the time when Islam came.This verse is quoted during a battle. ...We know that America was once at war with Vietnam. Suppose the President of America or the General of the American Army told the American soldiers during the war: "Wherever you find the Vietnamese, kill them. Today if I say that the American President said, "Wherever you find Vietnamese, kill them" without giving the context, I will make him sound like a butcher. But if I quote him in context, that he said it during a war, it will sound very logical, as he was trying to boost the morale of the American soldiers during the war. ...Similarly in Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 5 the Quran says,"Kill the Mushriqs (pagans) where ever you find them during a battle to boost the morale of the Muslim soldiers. What the Quran is telling Muslim soldiers is, don't be afraid during battle; wherever you find the enemies kill them. Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 6 gives the answer to the allegation that Islam promotes violence, brutality and bloodshed.
Given this context, this verse does not, in fact, show Islam to be a wicked, violent" religion, as Franklin Graham would like us to believe, but shows that Islam gave to Muslims the right to defend themselves against those who would not let them worship God, a right, incidentally, which is protected by the United States Constitution.

Prophet Muhammad married Aisha when she was 6 years of age. It is very important to understand things in their historical context. For instance, it will be silly to ask what type of engine they had back then. Therefore one must understand that things 1400 years ago were very different from now, times have changed and so have humans. 1400 years ago it was very common for women to marry at a young age. It is a historical fact that girls from age 9 to 14 were married off in Europe, Asia, Africa and America. For example Saint Augustine~351 AD married a girl who was 10 years old, King Richard ii~1400 AD married a 7 year old, Henry viii ~1500 AD married a 6 year old, In Catholic Encyclopedia "Mary the mother of Jesus was 12 when she married 99 year old Joseph", etc.

Women in Islam wear the hijab for protection and modesty where it mentions in the Quran "Say to the believing women that: they should cast down their glances and guard their private parts (by being chaste). This is better for them."

I hope I clear all misunderstandings. It is normal for non muslims to question these stuff.

ISLAM IS NOT A BAD RELIGION.
Debate Round No. 2
AKMath

Pro

This still doesn't change the fact that more than 50% of muslims are radical extremists aka people who like ISIS, think honor killings of women are okay, think burning, raping, and scalping are okay forms of torture, and that Osama Bin Laden was an okay guy. There are approximately 1.5 million radicals in the USA. And being a catholic, yes Joseph married Mary at 12 or 15 (ongoing debate) while he was 90 or 99 (ongoing debate), but Joseph didn't sexually abuse Mary as Muhammad did to Aisha. "... for protection and modesty where it mentions in the Quran "Say to the believing women that: they should cast down their glances and guard their private parts (by being chaste). This is better for them." Then why don't men wear something for protection, modesty, cast down their glances, and guard their private parts? Women also wear it so men have no sexual attraction. This only benefits men and not women. Accordingly, as a Catholic I fully oppose women wearing the veil to church. This mostly happens in central and eastern Europe, and some regions of India.
DeezNutz11

Con

The Quran never promotes any violence toward women. Actually it says "Observe your duty to Allah in respect to the women, and treat them well." "...and women have rights similar to those against them in a just manner,..." (Holy Quran, 2:228).

Do you think what Bin Laden did is against the Quran? yes it is.
Three critical facts demonstrate that nothing in the Quran permits terrorism. And while Islamophobes and Isis will both go on ignoring these three facts, the Quran, the Prophet Muhammad and Muslims worldwide continue to champion them.

Fact 1
The Quran requires that you read it in full. No"cafeteria Quran here. As Quran 3:8 says, "We believe in it, the whole is from our Lord.""'‚�� Isis and Islamophobes instead cherry pick. Quran 3:8 pre-emptively calls out people who cherry pick as "perverse" people, declaring, those in whose hearts is perversity seek discord and wrong interpretation of [the Quran].
Fact 2
Islam is a practical faith that permits self-defence in certain strict situations. When? Let the Quran explain.

First, the Prophet Muhammad and his companions patiently bore vehement persecution in Mecca for nearly 13 years. This included a three-year starvation boycott from which his wife Khadija later died. Muslims didnt fight back.

Next, Muhammad sent some companions to seek refuge in Abyssinia under a Christian King, and Muslims still didnt fight back. Third, when the Prophets companions even asked to fight back, Muhammad responded clearly, "I have not been given permission to fight." And, finally, when the persecution became unbearable, Muhammad and the Muslims simply left Mecca still refusing to fight back.

Yet the extremists trying to kill Muslims in Mecca pursued the Muslims to kill them in Medina. And now " the Quran addressed fighting for the first time, permitting Muslims to fight in self-defence. The permission given in Quran 22:40-41 to fight was only given to ""those against whom war is waged. And fighting wasnt"" but to defend Christians, Jews, and people of all faiths. All subsequent verses addressing fighting are pre-conditioned on these clearly outlined rules of self-defense. Otherwise, its cherry picking, something the Quran forbids as perverse.

Additionally, Quran 2:193-194 declares that Muslims may only fight active combatants. Meaning, even if during battle an enemy combatant asks for amnesty, you must grant it. In Islam, there" mutilation, or torture. All this notwithstanding, fact three issues the death blow to Daesh and Islamophobe ideology.

Fact 3
You might now understand who the Quran refers to when it says "kill them where you find them". The are those terrorists who persecuted people for their faith, exiled them from their homes and then pursued to kill innocent people in their new homes.

WHAT THOSE PEOPLE (ISIS and Bin Laden) DO IS NOT WHAT ISLAM TEACHES. IT IS VERY FUNNY HOW ISLAM IS JUDGED BY HOW MUSLIMS BEHAVE BUT NOT WHAT GOD HIMSELF AND THE QURAN TEACHES US. Just because they promote terrorism and they are muslims it does not mean that it is islam that is causing it, they choose to be like that.

Prophet Muhammad sexually abused Aisha? I've never hear about that before. However that made me do some research and i found no evidence that Prophet Muhammad Sexually abuse Aisha. If you have some evidence please do share.

It is mentioned that the term Hijab, in relation to men, does not have the same technical meaning as it does in reference to Women, since the human-nature of a man and woman are quite different, thus too are their 'Hijab'. What must be pointed out is that the word Hijab simply means 'covering' and thus, men too must cover their bodies from the view of non- Mahram women.This is the hijab in context for men.

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Debate Round No. 3
AKMath

Pro

What about the 50%+ of Muslims that are extreme radical terrorists (but maybe don't show it). Did you watch Ben SHapiro and Steven Crowder's videos from RD 2
DeezNutz11

Con

As you mentioned nothing about my previous answers I guess it answers your doubts and questions about the "bad" stuff of Islam.

What do you mean "What about the 50% of Muslims that are extreme radical terrorists (but maybe don't show it)."?
As i already said, it is the PEOPLE who are terrorists and I pointed out 3 facts that islam promotes no terrorism.

Your debate topic is "Islam is a Bad Religion | Prove Me Wrong"
My job is already done to prove you WRONG that ISLAM is a bad religion not the PEOPLE ( ISIS or Bin Laden)

Once again, ISLAM is good, the PEOPLE are maybe bad, but the main thing is to prove that ISLAM is NOT BAD.
Debate Round No. 4
AKMath

Pro

I have to give it to you that is extraordinary word play. Clap clap! But being a Catholic I believe that a religion is only as good as it's followers. While yes Islam may teach good things, it doesn't matter as more than 50% of its followers don't practice the faith that way. Please please please watch this video by Ben Shapiro, it's extremely eye opening.
DeezNutz11

Con

I acknowledge that a religion is only as good as it's followers. I am also glad you accept that Islam teaches good things but the followers do not practice the faith and you I guess let go few other "bad" points that you previously held out.

Once again Islam teaches peace but most of its followers fail to abide by its teachings, which reflects bad on the religion and pious muslims and cause people like you to jump to conclusion that "Islam is a bad religion". For example, you have a son and you raise him very well with good manners. When your son turned an adult he started to become delinquent.What do you think people will firstly say? "His father didn't teach him any manners or raised him right" but you did, didn't you?
More than 50% muslims are radical muslims okay? What about the remaining muslims that are not?
You claim Islam is a bad religion, fine, why do you claim so? because more than half muslims are radical muslims.

I watched the video by Ben Shapiro it is indeed very informative, mostly about radical muslims. If radical muslims are your problem then let them be your problem not the religion. Instead the topic being "Islam is bad | Prove me wrong" it should've been "Radical muslims are bad | prove me wrong.

It was very nice debating with you. I tried. I hope i prove you wrong lol.
Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by DeezNutz11 3 years ago
DeezNutz11
Negotiate- The battle among the Sunni, Shia and the Shiite does shout out some violence and it does make sense that they are the ones created the battles among themselves, I guess not from the religion but because of it as you said.
Posted by Negotiate 3 years ago
Negotiate
The other thing to note is the battles between the Sunni the Shia and the Shiite- if I understand correctly, a significant portion of the violence has come from this. Here's my crude summary: all believe in Allah and a successor to the prophet Muhammad, but Sunni believe that it should be his next of kin, where Shia believe in immams being the leaders and where Shiite can accept anyone that can carry the divine task. ISIS, for example, is a Sunni group, with allegiance to Al Queda and with motivations to create a Sunni territory- especially in that of Iraq which is dominated by the opposing groups Shia and Shiite.

In essence, I can agree with you DeezNutz11- it may not be a bad religion, but just with maybe some bad people. The reason that I say this is that this is a battle that man has created, not from the religion itself but simply because of the religion... If that makes any sense.
Posted by DeezNutz11 3 years ago
DeezNutz11
I actually felt pleased when you question certain things. It's good to know and find out. To be honest, I do not know about Islam myself to an extent, so that makes two of us.
Posted by Negotiate 3 years ago
Negotiate
Interesting points. I am very ignorant about Islam so I can appreciate you both for a little more background/education on the religion. Quite honestly I don't know much at all about Muhammad and the domestic violence controversy, but had heard a lot about it- thus, I intended to find some objective information and share it since it came up in this debate.

Great debate so far, I should say!
Posted by DeezNutz11 3 years ago
DeezNutz11
Another indication that this "shove" was not by way of beating and causing pain; rather it was by way of teaching and pointing out something, is the rest of the conversation between the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and "Aa"ishah (may Allah be pleased with her). It was a peaceful and beneficial discussion in which the compassion of the greatest teacher (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) was manifested, as he explained to her the reason why he had gone out of the house at that late hour. He (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) had opened the door quietly and left the house without a sound so as not to disturb her sleep. Such an explanation could not stem from anger or the aim of causing pain; rather it came from a compassionate, kind and noble husband who respected his wife and explained to her, telling her the details of what had happened with him, so as to share his story with her. Thus he instilled in her heart a sense of confidence and trust in her honest and sincere husband.

She said: Whatever the people conceal, Allah knows it; yes. He said: "Jibreel came to me when you saw. He called me but he concealed it from you, and I answered him but I concealed it from you. He would not enter upon you when you were not fully dressed. I thought that you had gone to sleep and I did not want to wake you up, and I was afraid that you might be frightened. He said: "Your Lord is commanding you to go to the people of al-Baqee" and pray for forgiveness for them." I said: What should I say to them, O Messenger of Allah? He said: "Say: Peace be upon the people of these abodes, believers and Muslims. May Allah have mercy on those of us who have gone on before and those who come later, and we will " if Allah wills " join you soon."

There are six other justification, just visit this site https://islamqa.info...
Posted by Negotiate 3 years ago
Negotiate
Sahih Muslim (4:2127) - Muhammad struck his favorite wife, Aisha, in the chest one evening when she left the house without his permission. Aisha narrates, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain."

Sahih Muslim (9:3506) - Muhammad's fathers-in-law (Abu Bakr and Umar) amused him by slapping his wives (Aisha and Hafsa) for annoying him. According to the Hadith, the prophet of Islam laughed upon hearing this.

These are accounts of violence against wives, to which and according to the site, is viewed in Islam as justified so long as it is punishment for wrongful acts done by wives. This is all ripped straight from this website: https://www.thereligionofpeace.com...
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by RMTheSupreme 3 years ago
RMTheSupreme
AKMathDeezNutz11Tied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Con indirectly sourced the Qur'an itself and so negates the fact that Pro uses YouTube URLs in my eyes for a tie in the 'reliable sources' vote. Pro lost this debate by default because they never explain what 'bad' is. I could also have said they didn't define 'religion' but Con admits that Islam is a religion so I will stick to 'bad'. Since we have no baseline of what 'bad' is, Pro can't prove that Islam is a bad religion and indeed failed to do so throughout. Con's case is also strong in itself saying that if you are Bad and claim to follow Islam you are a Bad Muslim not proof that Islam is bad but Pro actually could have attacked this if only they defined bad to begin with.

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