The Instigator
LoveRichardDawkins
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
kyleniel
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

Israel should be punished

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
kyleniel
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/10/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 549 times Debate No: 117653
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (10)
Votes (1)

 

LoveRichardDawkins

Pro

Let's be clear. Israel has the right to exist. I am not a Hamas sympathiser and I believe in Israel's right to be a safe, Secure nation state free from attacks from hostile factions.

However, Palestine also has the same rights. In fact, Palestine has equal rights as a nation state as Israel. UN agreements recognise the Palestinian area as consisting of both a Jewish Israeli state and an Arab Palestinian state.

"The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine was a proposal by the United Nations, Which recommended a partition of Mandatory Palestine at the end of the British Mandate. On 29 November 1947, The UN General Assembly adopted the Plan as Resolution 181"

However, We now live in a time where the rights of one country are respected but the rights of another are not. Israel has violated international agreements more times than we can count. It imposes an effective apartheid system upon the Palestinian people. It regularly commits acts of mass murder against Palestinian civilians in disproportionate responses to much more minor Palestinian infringements. Fundamentally, It abuses the state and the people of Palestine. This is unacceptable.

As free and democratic countries, The West has a duty to stand up for the right of all people to self-determination, Democracy and freedom. We stood up to Saddam Hussein when he invaded and occupied Kuwait, And yet, When Israel invades and continues to occupy Palestinian territory we stand aside and don't act. We need to send a clear message to the whole world that we do not tolerate the violation of international law and the violation of human rights.

Sanctions are a way of doing this. This does not have to be either immediate or radical. We can condemn and warn Israel of our discontent with their actions. We can condemn Israeli actions in the UN. We can end the sale of military equipment to Israel. We can withdraw military support. There are many options that a pragmatic government can make use of to direct a fair and appropriate response.

Human rights watch sheds light on these specific abuses:
https://www. Hrw. Org/world-report/2018/country-chapters/israel/palestine

I believe that these abuses are egregious enough to merit a measured response from the governments of the west. We need to stand up for the human rights of all oppressed people around the world. This is why sanctions are the right course of action to stand up to the abuse of Palestinians by Israel.

Israel has the right to exist but not to infringe upon the rights of others to do the same.
kyleniel

Con

Israeli Aggression is usually in self-defense. And the deaths of children and innocents is just a sad reality behind war.
Debate Round No. 1
LoveRichardDawkins

Pro

It's not true to say that Israeli actions are mostly in self-defence. Firstly, Most of the time that Israeli falsely screams "self-defence" after it guns down 50 kids, It has actually provoked the incident itself. Palestinians are always blamed for starting conflict but the reality is that the conflict "started" by them is actually a reaction to Israeli abuses. For example, Would the recent protests at the border in the Gaza strip have happened had Israel not enforced a decade long blockade of Gaza? These events are the direct fault of Israel's mistreatment of Palestinians which then lead to protests which are then used to smear Palestinians for starting conflict. Secondly, Even if Israel reacted in self-defence that still doesn't justify what it does. For instance, You wouldn't kill someone for calling you a rude name. And that is a fair comparison of what Israel does. Their response is brutally disproportionate. For example, In the 2009 Gaza clashes, 1034 Palestinians were killed in drone strikes including 314 children in response to 9 Israeli casualties. Israel is guilty of disproportionate response in the cases of supposed "self-defence" which is often not the case. Therefore, Israel should still be held accountable for its actions.
kyleniel

Con

Israel has been attacked since it's inception. Palestine started it all. Also, Those attacks become more proportionate when you realize more Israelis would die from Palestinian attacks and that a good chunk of war casualties are accidents.
Debate Round No. 2
LoveRichardDawkins

Pro

Israel has been attacked once by Palestinian forces since its inception. That was in 1947. In the other cases such as the six day war and the Yom Kippur war they were attacked by foreign Arab countries. Furthermore, Israel was attacked by Palestinian forces because Israel stole Palestinian land. How would you like it if millions of migrants entered your country, Forced you off your land and then complained when you struck back? Israel was attacked by Palestine because it destroyed Palestine and threw Palestinians off their land. Palestinians did not "start it all" Israel "started it all" by effectively invading Palestine in the first place.

Once again, You are not seeing the nuance in this debate. Even if Israel is provoked that still does not justify Israel's response. As I said, Israeli responses are brutal and disproportionate and therefore are not justifies by the small provocation from Palestinians. Why does a car bomb in Jerusalem mean Israel has to bomb a hospital. Furthermore, Just claiming "accident" is not good enough. All sorts of people have accidents but that doesn't mean that they claim no responsibility for them. Manslaughter is officially when someone is reckless and an accident happens leaving someone dead. But we still send people to prison for manslaughter. Also, A lot of the time it's not an accident. In the recent shootings at the Gaza border are you seriously saying that all the weaponless children which were shot dead by Israeli soldiers were just accidents? Or did the soldiers know they were children but fired anyway because Palestinians are dehumanised and treated as second-class citizens in Israel? I don't find it convincing that all these cases of human rights abuses and war crimes are just accidents.

Finally, Someone in the comments mentioned that Israelis were once refugees and therefore Palestinians don't have more rights than them. I'm not saying that Palestinians should have more rights. I'm saying they don't have the basic rights which Israelis do. Plus, No-oen is doubting the millennia of persecution, Abuse and genocide which Jews faced. But just because one group of people are persecuted that doesn't mean that they have the right to persecute another group of people.

In conclusion, Israel cannot justify its disproportionate response to provocation, That in most cases, It is to blame for in the first place. Human rights do not just disappear during wars. And we should still hold Israel accountable for its actions even in the face of human conflict. I find Israel's treatment of the Palestinian people abhorrent and unacceptable. The international community needs to deal with this abuse with real consequences.
kyleniel

Con

Jews were forced out of the area, The Palestinians are there wrongfully. And again, Those are accidents and usual war casualties.
Debate Round No. 3
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by mosc 3 years ago
mosc
Goyim are not racist? LOL its called measure for measure.
Posted by LoveRichardDawkins 3 years ago
LoveRichardDawkins
So you"re basically a racist.
Posted by mosc 3 years ago
mosc
because sand niggar towel heads - losers all the way to allah achbar up the butt.
Posted by LoveRichardDawkins 3 years ago
LoveRichardDawkins
How are you winning? !
Posted by mosc 3 years ago
mosc
This notion of turning back the clock - total bunk. The Arabs rejected a 2 state solution in 1947, The chose war and lost that war. Now they exist as stateless refugees scattered across the Middle East. This bunk notion Israel has some obligation to recognize these Arab stateless refugees when no single Arab or Muslim country has agreed to repatriate these Arab refugee populations in their countries, That's just total bunk.
Posted by mosc 3 years ago
mosc
Bunk. Stateless Arab refugees have no more rights than did the stateless Jewish refugees which existed for over 2000 years prior to the victory over the Arabs in the 1948 Independence War.
Posted by canis 3 years ago
canis
The USA should be punished. The theritory did belong to someone else. Well still does. . .
Posted by AumOne 3 years ago
AumOne
I'm not so educated in the whole jew, Isreal front, But when I see this I get frustrated because whenever a country has a bad rep we blame the country as a whole but in reality, It's the 0. 2% but everyone takes the hit.

And this is exactly what the countries want? Because if people realized it's not the country it's the people running it and controlling manipulating brainwashing that is the problem.

one day we will drop our weapons collapse to the ground realizing that we are all trapped in this together.
Connect with one another and revolutionize because the connection is all we have.

-burn down the matrix-
Posted by LoveRichardDawkins 3 years ago
LoveRichardDawkins
You have not read anything I have said
Posted by Maryam_mosawy 3 years ago
Maryam_mosawy
So you're ignoring the fact that Israel has killed many innocent children and families, How dare you say that they deserve to live
Israel doesn't deserve to have equal rights, And they are the ones oppressing Palestine and they are the ones who stole a piece of their land just for themselves and you may say that might be selfish but seriously is there any country who is happy that half of their country is stolen? Israel has fought Palestine for hundreds of years and its time for them to realise what injustice they have brought upon the Arab society.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
LoveRichardDawkinskylenielTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use.