The Instigator
metalfan101
Pro (for)
The Contender
LuciferWept
Con (against)

Israel vs Palestine

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/7/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 789 times Debate No: 100674
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

metalfan101

Pro

I support israel because they are the only democratic country in the middle east that supports democratic values. Palestine does not support democratic and on top of that, Israel is dealing with enemies from all sides that want to see their country destroyed. Israel has dealt with rocket attacks coming from Gaza, and Hamas terrorists inciting Palestinians to stab innocent Israelis, and tells their own civilians on national TV to go where Israelis fire rockets so they can be used as human shields. Israel on the other hand goes above and beyond to protect Israelis and even Palestinian civilians unlike their own government, which is why I'm supporting Israel.
LuciferWept

Con

The establishment of Israel was little more than an emotionally charged political reaction to the Holocaust. It took absolutely no account of the Palestinians who were already in the region; Palestinians who had been granted statehood as payment for helping to defeat the Ottomans in the First World War. The establishment of Israel has only served to rally Sunni Arabs around the Wahhabi or Salafist banners. It has granted reason for Nations like Iran and Egypt to militarize and set themselves in opposition to the West. The American policy with regards to Israel has brought on more problems, such as the invasion of Iraq and the subsequent rise of ISIS.

To exist as an organic Nation one has to be established from within, not from without. Thus Israel can only be considered to be an artificial Nation. It's standing as a democratic republic comes at the expense of those already there. This would be acceptable if the Israelis had moved there and set up on their own; but they did not. Instead Israel is little more than a puppet state for the West which has embroiled its allies into more wars than is worth.
Debate Round No. 1
metalfan101

Pro

To start by addressing your first point Palestinians were in the region first, in fact Palestinians were the arabs are not native to Palestine they were native to Arabia. "Judaism the Hebrew language, and the jewish people were established in the Holy Land for thousands of years" before Islam became on the rise. It is the Arab people who were settlers which included Arab immigration in the 19th and 20th centuries. In fact Palestine was not originally an Arab country, when an Arab- American historian testified against partition before the Angelo- American Committee in 1946 he said " There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not." Even when the First Congress of Muslim- Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinians for the Paris Peace Conference they adopted the following resolution "We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic, and geo- graphical bonds" So if Palestinians really settled in Palestine first, wouldn't they have been an Arab country? A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria. For your second argument where is the evidence that Israel is ralling Sunni Arabs around the Wahhabi or Salafist banners? Addressing your next point The Syrians were attempting to destroy the state of Israel along with the Egyptians who starting attacking Israel first. Nasser said, "he full restoration of the rights of the Palestinian people. In other words, we aim at the destruction of the state of Israel. The immediate aim: perfection of Arab military might. The national aim: the eradication of Israel." On May 22, Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran to all Israeli shipping and all ships bound for Eilat. This blockade cut off Israel's only supply route with Asia and stopped the flow of oil from its main supplier, Iran. On October 6, 1973"Yom Kippur, the holiest day in the Jewish calendar"Egypt and Syria opened a coordinated surprise attack against Israel. The equivalent of the total forces of NATO in Europe was mobilized on Israel"s borders. 2 On the Golan Heights, approximately 180 Israeli tanks faced an onslaught of 1,400 Syrian tanks. Along the Suez Canal, fewer than 500 Israeli defenders were attacked by 80,000 Egyptians.
To address your last point that Israel didn't build the state on their own, but they did the Jewish people have maintained ties to their historic homeland for more than 3,700 years. Even after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem and the beginning of the exile, Jewish life in the Land of Israel continued and often flourished. Large communities were reestablished in Jerusalem and Tiberias by the ninth century. In the 11th century, Jewish communities grew in Rafah, Gaza, Ashkelon, Jaffa and Caesarea. The Crusaders massacred many Jews during the 12th century, but the community rebounded in the next two centuries as large numbers of rabbis and Jewish pilgrims immigrated to Jerusalem and the Galilee. Prominent rabbis established communities in Safed, Jerusalem and elsewhere during the next 300 years. By the early 19th century " years before the birth of the modern Zionist movement " more than 10,000 Jews lived throughout what is today Israel. The 78 years of nation-building, beginning in 1870, was gave rise to the reestablished of the Jewish State.
LuciferWept

Con

The Jewish people were not "established in the Holy Land for thousands of years" as you claim. In the year 132CE the Jewish people revolted against their rulers in Rome. The war, led by Simon bar Kochba, lasted three years and resulted in the Jewish Diaspora. "Following the battle of Bethar, there were a few small skirmishes in the Judean Desert Caves, but the war was essentially over and Judean independence was lost. The Romans plowed Jerusalem with a yoke of oxen. Jews were sold into slavery and many were transported to Egypt. Judean settlements were not rebuilt. Jerusalem was turned into a pagan city called Aelia Capitolina and the Jews were forbidden to live there. They were permitted to enter only on the 9th of Av to mourn their losses in the revolt. Hadrian changed the country’s name from Judea to Syria Palestina." [1] The myths found in the Torah/Bible is nice, but it has no bearing on history.

However, if we follow your logic, than white Americans must ALL return to England, black Americans to Nigeria, Mexicans back to Spain, the non-Gallic French back to Germany, and the descandants of the Canaanites back to Israel, for they were established long before the Hebrew invaded as toldin the Book of Joshua.

I'm not really sure about what calling Palestine southern Syria means for anything, other than that the region called Israel should belong to Syria.

My evidence that the existence of Israel is causing a surge in Wahhabism and Salafism is demonstrated by ISIS, Al-Qaeda, and the overall hostility such groups show towards Western countries based on their support for Israel. "...if the Americans' aims behind these wars are religious and economic, the aim is also to serve the Jews' petty state and divert attention from its occupation of Jerusalem and murder of Muslims there." -Usama bin Laden.[2] you asked me for evidence, now I ask you, substantiate your claims with sources.

As for your final argument, that Jews built the Israeli state, it is still not evidenced at al. All you point out is that Jews lived there, under the government of Ottomans. This is simply people living somewhere, not building a State.

The ancient Jewish state ceased to exist after Pompey the Great conquered them.[3] The nation was scattered by Vespasian in 135, as said above. This is the end of the Jews' claim to the region.

Taking your claim of 1870, that's more than a millenium. History changed things.

Sources
1) http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...
2) https://en.wikipedia.org...
3) http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com...
Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by maver1ck911 1 year ago
maver1ck911
I love a good propaganda food fight with PLOS and ISRAELIS
Posted by FanboyMctroll 1 year ago
FanboyMctroll
I don't think the fighting will ever stop, it's like two bitter neighbors that will bicker and fight and make up for a bit and then keep launching things at each other over the fence.

I see no resolution in my lifetime to this conflict. I guess some people were just meant to fight forever
Posted by cackless 1 year ago
cackless
Hi! Just wanted to say how stupid this concept is! Israel is the main source of ISIS and has been at war with there neighbors! Guess who started those wars! Israel
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