The Instigator
Pro (for)
Anonymous
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
WrickItRalph
Con (against)
Winning
5 Points

It's Time For America To Pay Its Debt of Reparations

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
WrickItRalph
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/22/2019 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 847 times Debate No: 120963
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (29)
Votes (1)

 

Pro

As the title states, America need to pay its debt to the descendants of the people who built this country. There is absolutely no denying this because history is proof positive of who did all of the work in laying the foundation of this crooked country. America doesn't seem to have any problems with paying reparations to people of other countries so there's no excuse of holding back reparations for fellow Americans.

Even though I already know the answer to the question that I'm going to ask, I'd like to hear a rock-solid argument of "why do white people have a problem with supporting their fellow brothers & sisters? " This country is hellbent on trying to keep black people as a group for being a permanent underclass. If you can't bring a (Logical) argument then don't accept the challenge.
WrickItRalph

Con

My position will be:

Reparations will not solve any problems

The events in question date too far back to properly distribute them.

The money would be better spent on improving the current state of society in a broader sense.

Racial disparity cannot simply be bought away.

Lets cover your question first.

"why do white people have a problem with supporting their fellow brothers & sisters? "

So the short answer is, They don't. The long answer is, You just made a statement that applies to all white people. That makes the statement false. In fact, The very question itself assume a racist belief. Some people help people and some don't.

I'll address my points in the next round.
Debate Round No. 1

Pro

My opponent said that he'll address my points in the next round. You actually can't make a point because you don't have a logical argument. I specifically said to bring a (Logical) argument in which you have not and the racist-belief comment holds no weight what-so-ever so maybe you'd want to try a new angle. Now I'm going to breakdown your lack or argument.

I can basically end this one-sided debate by saying that Israel should've denied those reparations that it has been receiving since 1952. . . Better yet, Maybe the Native Americans shouldn't be getting their reparations either. As you stated earlier, "that dates too far back. " Did you not say that? You also said that reparations won't solve any problems. Sir, The definition of reparation means to repair. . . Did you know that 25% of Israeli families were living below the poverty line recently? Are you aware that Obama paid $12 million to these people and they're not even Americans? I don't even have to state what happened when they received the $12 million. Do you see the hypocrisy?

You said that "racial disparity can't be bought away. " So, Why is there racial disparity in the US? Better yet, Wasn't it whites who created/constructed the racial disparity in America?
WrickItRalph

Con

You said:
"You actually can't make a point because you don't have a logical argument"

Okay. So instead of producing logical counterpoints to my argument, You make a baseless claim that I'm not being logical and then make no attempt to prove it. I think we see who the real hypocrite is here.

You said:
"I don't even have to state what happened when they received the $12 million. Do you see the hypocrisy? "

No hypocrisy here. I don't think they should have gotten it either. My argument was that we improve the current state of affairs instead of tryin to throw bandages on everything.

You said:
"You said that "racial disparity can't be bought away. " So, Why is there racial disparity in the US? "

Hehe. Talk about being illogical. You just created a false dichotamy "Mr. Logic". It's not (Buy it away or racial disparity) It's (Buy it away or Don't Buy it away). The fact that racial disparity can't be bought away say nothing about what the real solution to the problem is. The reason we have racial disparity in the US, Is become we haven't perfected a proper solution. This actually proves my point. We've tried reparations and it doesn't work, So now we have more evidence for my claim. Thanks.

Lets unpack my previous claims.

Reparations will not solve any problems.
Cash injections are nice. They might even make things look good for a while, But if the system around the people being help is working against them, They'll eventually run out of money through the generations. So it's just a band aide. The system around us has to be improved. That's the only way.

The Events date too far back.
There is no way to pinpoint exactly which people were oppressed. Not every minority was born into poverty. In fact, The disparity has been shrinking more quickly as time goes on. This would indicate that the reparations are not necessary.

The money would be better spent.
Any economist will tell you that the best investment is the one that accrues value. Investing in band aids will yield a low accruement. Investing in changes to the system will yield accruement for generations to come.

Cannot be bought away.
I pose a question. If I give minorities a bunch of money, Does that stop discrimination? My answer is no. If yours is not, Then you'll have to pose a logical argument as to why. As long as there's discrimination, There will always be disparity.

I would suggest in the next round that you don't quibble of what your opponent says. You are not the arbiter of what counts as logic. If you want to dismiss my points, Do it by posing counterpoints or you will just make yourself look weak.

Your floor.
Debate Round No. 2

Pro

The very first thing my opponent said is "reparations will not solve any problems. " Did you not say that? If not, Then scroll back up a few notches to refresh your memory. That ridiculous statement alone is illogical sir.

Your next misstep claimed that I created a false dichotamy, But you haven't even realized that I'm actually quoting exactly what you stated which is"Racial disparity can not simply be bought away. " Once again. . . Did you not say that? If not, Then scroll back up to the fifth sentence of your first argument to refresh your memory. . . Since racial disparity can't be bought away then why would say that? Hmmm.

You said "the reason we have racial disparity in the US is because we haven't perfected a proper solution. " My question to you is "how can you create a proper solution when you haven't even identified the cause? " You seem to not understand cause & effect. . . Seems to me that you're tripping over your own words.

Let's examine the cause: Racial disparity (the system) in America was constructed by whites to hinder black people's progression. You can't expect one group of people to catch up when the other group has a 400 year head start. Whites caused the issue & anyone who immigrates to the US & benefits will have to pay. One-time cash payout? Did the fake Jews or the Natives get a one-time cash payout? It's going to take generation to reach that trillion-dollar mark. This includes liquid capital, Land, Grants & tax exemption.
Pinpointing the people is easy. Any black (immigrant) who came after the Civil Rights Act opened the doors do not qualify. . . Where the money is dispersed & how it's spent won't include your authority. You just worry about all of the freebies that whites have received because we all know who's the biggest welfare case in history.
WrickItRalph

Con

You said:
"That ridiculous statement alone is illogical sir. "

You can't just claim it's illogical, You have to explain why it's illogical or it stands.

You obviously don't know what a false dichotomy is.
I said "racial disparity can't be bought away. "
Then you said: "So, Why is there racial disparity in the US? "
This question is implying that racial disparity wouldn't exist if it could be bought away. Which in logic language amounts to:
A or B

A=Racial disparity can't be bought away
B=There is no racial disparity in the US.

This is not a true dichotomy because the terms are not mutually exclusive. A true dichotomy looks like this:
A or Not A
A= Racial disparity can't be bought away.
Not A= Racial disparity cannot be bought away.

You said:
"How can you create a proper solution when you haven't even identified the cause? "

In this hypothetical situation, We couldn't, Which means that your solution would be wrong as well.
In the real world, We do know the cause, But your solution has been proven by virtue of demonstration that it doesn't work.
You're the one with the burden of proof here. It's your claim.

You think pinpointing the right time is easy. But you've shown no evidence. You just posited your opinion on when the best starting point would be. That's vacuous. Even if you could find a good starting point, You'd still have to prove that you claim is true. Which you haven't.

Oh, So you refused to answer my question! I'll pose it again.
"If I give minorities a bunch of money, Does that stop discrimination? "

Just in case you decide to answer, I'll just answer it for you and if you refuse then at least people will have seen it. The answer is no it does not, Because people's bigotry is not contingent upon one's pocket book (Unless it's a classist. )

Your floor. Try not to leak your blood all over it.
Debate Round No. 3

Pro

Before I conclude this debate, My opponent hasn't made any logical sense what-so-ever. Case In Point: He said that "the reason for racial disparity in the US is because we haven't perfected a proper solution. " That statement alone destroys his entire rambling argument. . . You asked "If I give minorities a bunch of money, Does that stop discrimination? " Dude, Your questions are pretty much ignorant & rhetorical. What you don't seem to understand is that bigotry is taught from a young age.

All of this false dichotomy nonsense is nothing more than Semantics. Sir, Either way you spin it, There would be No racial disparity if people weren't practicing racism. Semantics like (can't) & (can not) is a deflection tactic.

The Topic At Hand: The fake Jews receive billion from the US on an annual basis for no logical reason. Japan bombed Pearl Harbor but Japanese-Americans received reparations for being in those internment camps. The Natives get land, Tax breaks, Grants, Cash payouts and casinos.

No other racial group of people has built a country via slavery, Went through the injustice of Jim Crow laws, Suffered through the Black Codes, Has been stripped of their heritage/language, Has been purposely targeted by race warrior police officers and has had their neighborhoods Redlined or purposely destroyed. . .

The bigotry of white people is 100% hypocritical because whites are the ones who created, Practiced and benefited from the injustice, Which can't be refuted. Black people never received free land via the Headright System & Homestead Act, Never received the benefits of the G. I. Bill despite fighting in every American war, Never discriminated against someone over skin complexion and has never received a free lifestyle for doing absolutely nothing. . . But whites are the same people who will say that "You Need To Pull Yourselves Up by Your Bootstraps. "

So, The next time you people travel through a random neighborhood that isn't ideal, Just no that Black people didn't get 50 acres of land per every adult for free. Blacks didn't get another 50 acres of land per ownership of every slave, Which speaks volumes. Thanks for the discussion
WrickItRalph

Con

So I guess you never had any intentions of actually bringing proofs to the debate. Makes me wonder what's in that suitcase of yours.

You called my question rhetorical and then refused to answer it for the second time. It's cool I know the answer and so do you. That's why you keep dodging it. You know that your proposition is just a band aide and you probably have some ulterior motive for advocating for it, Because it's clear to me that it's not to stop racial disparity. If that was the case, You would care more about discrimination and less about handouts. You seem quick to want to give away money but you don't want to talk about racism.

My opponent said "nothing more than Semantics" Oh my. Semantics are important. All you're saying here is that the details don't matter. Who cares if it doesn't work! Just give them the money right? That's a weak argument.

I don't care how many reparations have been handed out. That doesn't mean that it worked or that it was the right decision. Sometimes it's right and sometimes it's not. In this case, There are better ways to deal with it. I'm not even convinced that reparations are good at all except in cases of restitution involving measurable property damage.

You said:
"No other racial group of people has built a country via slavery, "

That's actually quite false. Slavery was practiced almost universally for most of human history. All types of races enslaved other races and built nations on them and sometimes enslaved their own people. You're so wrong on this it's embarrassing for you.

So much wrong with this one. You say "the bigotry of white people" which is a bigoted statement itself. Ironic. You also to go on to say that black people have never been racist. That's just false. Any individual can be racist regardless of their color and the very act of saying a black person can't be racist is also racist

The irony of this debate has not been lost on me. I have a bigot telling me to give a group of people a bunch of money for bigoted reasons who doesn't care about racism or racial disparity. My opponent spends the whole debate insisting that I must use logic and that I am not using logic, But his entire argument is based on emotional appeals, Appeals to tradition, And whataboutism. His only real attempt at an argument was to say we should do it because we did it with other people. Which is like saying you want a cookie because your brother got one, Ignoring the fact neither of you ate your dinner and nobody should have gotten a cookie in the first place.

In closing. I would suggest that you think more productively if you want to fight racism. Although I don't think that's your goal.

Good debate.
Debate Round No. 4
29 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by WrickItRalph 3 years ago
WrickItRalph
You didn't call them holocaust survivors last time. You called them fake jews.
Posted by screenjack 3 years ago
screenjack
Well at least now you're being specific. I read an article on Obama giving money to Jewish holocaust survivors. Nowhere in that article did it say they were fake Jews. So how are you making this claim that people are faking being Jews? And to prove how easy it is to source something here is the article. Https://www. Timesofisrael. Com/obama-administration-earmarks-12m-for-holocaust-survivors/
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
I'll say it once again. . . Obama gave $12 million to Jewish holocaust survivors during his last year in office. How much simpler can I break it down than that? Should I explain how to type this into a search engine? It doesn't get more obvious than that.
Posted by WrickItRalph 3 years ago
WrickItRalph
@mairj. You keep saying it's so obvious and people are just playing dumb. Maybe it's only obvious to you and people are being justifiably incredulous because you're not providing evidence? My scenario seems more likely. If it's so obvious, Then it should take you no effort to prove it to us so show us the proof or you're just making face noise.
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
Well, I guess those $12 million that Obama earmarked was just a personal gift. Playing dumb on a public forum is making you look ridiculous. It's kind of hard to miss this since it's plastered all over Google & Bing but make sure to come back & tell me what it says. . . ". I'll wait.
Posted by screenjack 3 years ago
screenjack
Yes because I did paste it into google and I have not found a single article claiming that Fake Jews have received reparations from the U. S. In fact most of the articles I find are about Jews getting reparations from France. So prove your claim. Which fake Jews have received reparations? What organization was responsible? Which country was paying the reparations? I'm sure there are literally millions of reparation claims. It's a debate, There is no reason not to be specific. Also, I wouldn't point out a claim you make unless I thought it was false or intentionally misleading. I'm literally giving you a chance to prove what you're saying is true and not just conjecture. I mean I could just call you a liar and a deceiver but I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. That's why I ask for sources. That's why I always try to post at least one source. Https://www. Google. Com/search? Q=the+fake+Jews+receive+reparations+annually+from+the+US&rlz=1C1CHZL_enUS754US754&oq=the+fake+Jews+receive+reparations+annually+from+the+US&aqs=chrome. . 69i57j69i64. 678j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 ----- For instance this is my google search.
Posted by WrickItRalph 3 years ago
WrickItRalph
I'm with @mairj on this one. If someone makes a basic statement, I think it's easy for the viewer to look it up. You could literally paste what he said into google and figure it out. If it was something really complicated or number heavy, Then I would say sources should be used.
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
So if I tell you that the fake Jews receive reparations annually from the US, Am I really suppose to hold your hand and guide you to the source?
Posted by screenjack 3 years ago
screenjack
Pointing out how which definition you use can change the course of an argument makes a good amount of sense to me. Also, You're the only person on this site that actively calls me a troll. Presumably because you don't like to prove things, Source things, Or make honest claims.
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
@omar2345 The fact of the matter is that a group of people was purposely targeted, Discriminated, Slaved and murdered under one system that justified its brutality. No other race of people has gone through what Black people have gone through and that can't be refuted. If America can spend trillions on fighting pointless wars, Pay billions to the people of foreign countries who experienced hardships and pay hundreds of millions to native people on an annual basis, Black people shouldn't be left out. If the shoe was on the other foot, I'm 100% sure you people would be singing a completely different tune.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by cfossedal 3 years ago
cfossedal
AnonymousWrickItRalphTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: HAHAHAHAHA! Oh, my goodness! I was just rolling over laughing at this debate from the opening title all the way to the end! I haven't read anything so funny in a while now! And it's such a looney-tunes show, the way mairj23 (Wil E. Coyote) keeps getting his arguments squashed by WrickItRalph (Roadrunner). I think I bust a gut when Wil E. actually said: "All of this false dichotomy nonsense is nothing more than Semantics." He probably doesn't know what either of those things are! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Blood all over the road, Wil E.! Meep-meep!

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use.