The Instigator
Wyattcodered
Pro (for)
The Contender
persianimmortal
Con (against)

LGBt people should be treated as the same in faith

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/15/2017 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 521 times Debate No: 99916
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

Wyattcodered

Pro

This is not a debate but a discussion between myself and Persianimmortal. I have been studying religion heavy for a good five years now my dad is a Pastor and my mom works for the church have always asked my parents lots of Religious questions since I was fithteen. But this question I believe my dad has wrong in what God's plan is for his LGBT people. I will like to start this out by saying he treats everyone the same as said in Ephesians 2:10 "For we are God"s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago."
Also in Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus"
But I think its best said by peter" So Peter opened his mouth and said: "Truly I understand that God shows no partiality..."

So if God shows no partiality then how is he angry about certain people what he created in his own image. But when it comes to Homosexuality God seems to put a whole author look on.
"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." Leviticus 20 :13
Also in 1 Corinthians 6 9-11
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

I have kept this quote while so you can see what the chapter of this section of the bible was about. But I mainly picked this verse since the Bible spells out Homosexually and that it is Sexually immoral. But this is where I differ from my dad and some Christians on this issue. A lot of times as we are thought that the bible is the way it is and everything is written as is. But as my studies in the bible through interviews and collage courses I believe god does change his mind as the world changes. And his ten commandments are what His true values are. I will let my fellow friend in to have his points. And next round I will be talking about why God and evidence that God changes his mind.

https://www.openbible.info.........
https://www.openbible.info.........
http://www.biblica.com.........
persianimmortal

Con

I would like to thank the Pro side for starting this discussion and I will commence by introducing myself then my view on homosexuality as a whole and then comments on the respective verses in the Bible.

I, too, have been a student of religion for about a good 4 years and I have dedicated my time to the daunting task of objectively comparing religions in order to draw the conclusion that they are all from the same source of light, the One True and Unchallenged God. As a Baha'i, I am not aligned with LGBT actions at all but I do not have anything against the homosexuals themselves because in the end they are flowers of this massive garden. In addition to this, I don't believe they will go to hell or heaven as a spiritually geographical location as most people think, because nobody is predetermined to even end up in such places. I believe that we all go back to God and the hell and heaven that are in the major world religions, are the states of an individual's soul based on the actions they do on this Earth according to the Law they abide by. I hope that this clarifies my stance and I look forward to a great discussion.

I would like to start by saying that Man's physical existence on this earth is a period during which the moral exercise of his free will is tried and tested in order to prepare his soul for the life beyond this one, and we must welcome affliction and tribulations as opportunities for improvement in our eternal selves. The homosexuals are not the only segment of human society laboring at this daily task -- every human being is beset by such inner promptings as pride, greed, selfishness, lustful heterosexual or homosexual desires, to name a few which must be overcome, and we must overcome them if we are to fulfill the purpose of our human existence.
So basically, the recognition of the Manifestation of God is but the beginning of a process of growth and as we become more deepened in the Teachings and strive to follow His principles, we gradually approach and understand the perfect pattern of growth which is presented to us by God's Messenger.
Now this leads into recognizing what the God has prescribed for us in the Bible and how we as humans should act as per the Command of God.

The Bible is consistent throughout both Old and New Testaments in confirming that homosexuality is evidently a sin.
Genesis 19:1–13
Leviticus 18:22; 20:13
Romans 1:26–27
1 Cor 6:9;
Jude 1:7
1 Thes 4:5

But the sinful nature of homosexuality presented in the Old Testament still stands in the New Testament because Christ said that He did come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it (Matt 5:17). This just proves that God’s standards of holiness did not change with the coming of Jesus, because God does not change for He is Eternal (Malachi 3:6; Hebrews 13:8). As the a continuing revelation of God’s interaction with humanity, the New Testament confirms and sets the standard to humanity should abide by. The New Testament, in Romans 1:26 says that homosexuality is a “shameful lust”, a “shameful act,” and as Romans 1:27 puts it, an abandonment of “natural relations”. In 1 Corinthians 6:9 it is a clear “wrongdoing”, and it couldn't be as clear than what is stated in Jude 1:7 when it calls such an act a “sexual immorality and perversion”. Homosexuality is, according to 1 Timothy 1:10, “contrary to the sound doctrine” and it bars people from the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9).
So the Bible could not be clearer that homosexuality is a sin against God but does this mean that homosexuals are to be judged the same way how the people in the Bible were judged? The thing is, the Bible records the punishment of the ignorant ones and tells us that this is the outcome of ignoring the Commandments of God, the Almighty. But the fate of homosexuals are never predetermined nor do we have the right to give final judgments on those who partake in such actions. Our jobs are to guide the stray sheep, back to the flock of God because as I stated before, the recognition of the Manifestation of God is the first step of a process of growth and as we become more deepened in the Teachings and strive to follow His principles, we gradually approach and understand the perfect pattern of growth which is presented to us by God's Messenger.

So in conclusion, Homosexuality is not the cause of a society’s decline, but it is a symptom of it and then it transforms into a catalyst; it is the result of people making themselves the final authorities and redefining the word liberty as the action of "doing anything one wants" rather than seeing the liberty in living the life God has ordained for us. A prayer in the Baha'i Faith that shows us our purpose to recognize Him, is as follows:

I bear witness, O my God, that Thou hast created me to know Thee and to worship Thee. I testify, at this moment, to my powerlessness and to Thy might, to my poverty and to Thy wealth. There is none other God but Thee, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting.

Lemme know what you think.
Debate Round No. 1
Wyattcodered

Pro

I have read the two comments so far in this "Debate" and my augment is not that God or Faiths will just change there mind because they are forced to or for lack of better works to keep up with the trends main point was just to show the Christian faith in particular and what the Bible and Gods word says differ .I was trying through evidence to show how the Christian churches have seem to loosen on their stance of gays. The church of England in 2012 has voted to have women priests and gay couples to marry, while the Baptist seem to still hold their stance on Gays just as the bible has. God gave his people free will including the pastors who study and interpret is word. Just like the game of telephone its hard to get the same massage past the same exact way. Just by looking and not even studying or overseeing the Christian churches they all have their own thoughts on what God says through his words. Simply what I was trying to say was God's word on this "issue" has weakened through time, popular culture, science, and media around the churches.

If God truly treats his people as equals it would not make much since to treat LGBT people different. The Catholic Church believes that you can be Gay but you must not marry or have a realiship. In a way I think this claim is simply proven by just saying God wanted his people to fell and advocate love. Basically what I can see happening is the culture of today is out proffering what the exact words of the bible are saying. If you take the bible word for word like my quotes above they seem harsh and un-forgiving to the LGBT community. Certain Baptist perch that Gods word is the exact words and can not been changed or interpreted in author way. So if you take a quote where God is angry at gay people then you must be angry at the gay people. I am not saying that every Baptist church is this way I just have noticed that in all other denominations it seems more present.

While in the Catholic church it seems the fables of the Bible are taken and thought of and interpreted by the priest. Catholics are very stern maybe even more then Baptist. I have read servile articles what say maybe by 2050 the Catholic church would allow gay marriage but that seems In likely studying the patterns of the Catholic church. A example of this contraceptives the catholic church says ( https://www.catholic.com...). The Catholic church believes in natural family planning where no contraceptives are used in sex with your loved on through science and patterns of the "wife". Even though science shows that STI'S are way more likely when not wearing a condom for the man and birth control for the women. I am not saying that the Catholic faith is stupid.....just showing that the Catholic faith seems to stick to their values of these certain issues. Any person what is Religious and or studies realign really respects the Faith sticking to your values.

Simply the Christian faith must ether accept this issue as a church or not accept the issue as a church. Lets face it its hard enough to be religious in a society where its concisely being attacked. Having a faith what does not change doesn't make since to me.
. As a human suspicious we need to gather around the LGBT community and earn their respect treating them as one. As a person of a certain faith this should be even more of mission regardless of what your church decides. It hurts me when I study patterns in religion and notice that the certain faith is doing the same thing they did years before the LGBT communities of fighting against other religions we are fighting adgenist a struggling group naming them selves LGBT. Sorry I know I bounced all over the place but I needed to get out these points
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Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by persianimmortal 1 year ago
persianimmortal
You stated that, no religion says that such practices are morally right and contributes towards the growth.

Well that's what we are discussing and I agree with you that no religion says they are morally right, they merely state the consequences the participants of such immoral actions, will endure. I would like to encourage you to read the response I provided and take a look at the references that are quoted from the Bible.
Posted by YasarAliKhan 1 year ago
YasarAliKhan
this LGBT concept is totally wrong and it is not considered the same by the society as well . but if we talk about the americas because it is one of the places where it is mostly seen and supported also.According tyo me no religion says that such practices are morally right and contributes towards the growth,development, welfare and peace in the society and on the top of that it results in the gender/sexual unstability in society.
According to me such practices should be stopped as according to my perspective these proceeds towards harmful consequences for the whole world .
Posted by YasarAliKhan 1 year ago
YasarAliKhan
I as an Individual and as a part of the majority community around the globe strongly oppose the statement the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transponder people should be treated the same in faith. The PRO should understand if a new trend is emerging somewhere out of the box, it doesn't mean that its morally, socially, culturally right/correct or faithful.
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