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"Life" is LESS than 11,460 Years Old

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dtaylor971
 Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point Started: 11/23/2013 Category: Science Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period Viewed: 1,815 times Debate No: 41118
Debate Rounds (3)

18 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Sajoe 7 years ago
Admittedly this is my first debate and yes I was incorrectly using a formula to express a decay rate. I will examine your information and reply shortly.
Posted by Sajoe 7 years ago
Thank you Debaterpillar! I will take a look at it and try it out
Posted by Debaterpillar 7 years ago
@Sajoe: And just in case you're really interested in calculating it yourself as I suggested below, the decay rate for C-14 is approximately C = 0.000121 / years, meaning you just have to choose any number for your original sample N(t_0), then we randomly choose t_0 = 0 (setting our clocks to zero) and start the experiment.
Insert 0.000121 for C and any number of years for t, and you will see that N(5730 years) = N(0) * 0.5, just as N(11460 years) = N(0) * 0.25 .
Posted by Debaterpillar 7 years ago
@Sajoe:

Yes, the decay rate of C-14 is constant. But the rate of decay is not the same as the number of atoms decaying in a given period of time.
The equation to calculate the number N of atoms that haven't decayed after a given period of time t after a starting time of measurement t_0 is not N(t) = N(t_0) / t . Let's see why:

"the equation is A/5730=A(.5)"
This is revealed to be illogical already when looking at the units. 'A' has no unit, it's a number, say 1000. The unit of '5730 years' is years. Your result will thus have the unit '1/years'. But obviously after 5730 years you don't have any number of '1/years' carbon atoms. You have 500 carbon atoms. The unit 'years' does not appear.

Why is this so?

You are using an incorrect formula. This is obvious from inferring after 11460 years there must be 0 atoms left, and that this would translate into A/11460 = 0. Multiply both sides of the equation with 11460 and you get A=0, meaning that your equation can only be true, if your sample has been zero right from the beginning. Do you see the logical inconsistency?

The correct formula is N(t) = N(t_0) * exp( - C * (t - t_0) ) with C the constant decay rate. This is how the decay rate is actually defined.
Insert 5730 years for t and t_0 = 0, you get N(5730 years) = N(0) * 0.5, meaning after 5730 only half of the C-14 Atoms are left. If you then calculate N(11460 years), you get N(0) * 0.25. Seriously, try it.
Posted by Sajoe 7 years ago
Except that EVERY time you reset and restart the decay clock you are breaking the Laws of Physics and arbitrarily changing a constant! The sample IS NOT NEW every time it is halfed! Therefore the original start time MUST be used and that is when the organism dies!

The illogic that EVERY half WILL be NEW and therefore take 5730 years to decay is astounding!

Once the organism dies, the ENTIRE amount of C14 begins to decay AT THE SAME RATE. It does not matter how many times one cuts it in half it is ALL still part of the original sample!

Organism A dies the CONSTANT decay rate clock starts and the equation is A/5730=A(.5)
Then you change sample A to a NEW sample B: B/5730=B(.5). As a scientist you KNOW samples A and B are not the same. A is NOT B. Correct? Where did sample B come from? Did sample B come from organism A? NO, it did not! Sample B is NEW! The sample A from organism A is now useless because the entire sample is now 5730 years old from the time organism A died. Since logically sample B is not from organism A, just what is it that is being measured? A/5730=B(.5), B/5730=C(.5), C/5730=D(.5), D/5730=E(.5)
That is NOT mathematically or logically sound!

One cannot substitute A because of the CONSTANT. Sample A MUST remain IN the equation until it is 0. Once sample A from organism A is zero, THEN you can switch to sample B, presumably from organism B!

A/11,460=0
Posted by iamanatheistandthisiswhy 7 years ago
Okay do you know about exponential decay and growth. A rate of decay is an exponential decay. This means it approaches zero but never reaches zero.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Yes I understand radioactive decay very well. I think you don"t that is why I have tried to explain to you twice that half of half is a quarter.
Posted by Sajoe 7 years ago
It CANNOT be a "new" sample! Do you not understand how C14 works in the life cycle?

As long as an organism is living it is absorbing C14. Once that organism dies the quantity of C14 becomes fixed. NO NEW C14 can be added and the decay rate clock begins counting down! Once that clock starts it cannot be stopped, slowed down or even sped up! As you yourself just stated the decay rate is constant!

So please explain to me how a fixed finite C14 sample amount with a constant decay rate, suddenly becomes "new"?

That IS THE ILLOGIC being used incorrectly by mathematical geniuses trying to pretend they are also logical geniuses!

The math MUST also be logical! Otherwise the results are pure gibberish!

While the formula being used is "mathematically" sound, it is absolutely illogical and therefore, if I may, gibberish!

Technically speaking that formula states that ANY substance, when measured that way, becomes, "infinite"! Last I checked, the only "infinite" is God!

The correct AND logical formula for a fixed finite C14 sample amount with a CONSTANT decay rate is:

X/2t=0
Posted by Sajoe 7 years ago
It CANNOT be a "new" sample! Do you not understand how C14 works in the life cycle?

As long as an organism is living it is absorbing C14. Once that organism dies the quantity of C14 becomes fixed. NO NEW C14 can be added and the decay rate clock begins counting down! Once that clock starts it cannot be stopped, slowed down or even sped up! As you yourself just stated the decay rate is constant!

So please explain to me how a fixed finite C14 sample amount with a constant decay rate, suddenly becomes "new"?

That IS THE ILLOGIC being used incorrectly by mathematical geniuses trying to pretend they are also logical geniuses!

The math MUST also be logical! Otherwise the results are pure gibberish!

While the formula being used is "mathematically" sound, it is absolutely illogical and therefore, if I may, gibberish!

Technically speaking that formula states that ANY substance, when measured that way, becomes, "infinite"! Last I checked, the only "infinite" is God!

The correct AND logical formula for a fixed finite C14 sample amount with a CONSTANT decay rate is:

X/2t=0
Posted by Sajoe 7 years ago
It CANNOT be a "new" sample! Do you not understand how C14 works in the life cycle?

As long as an organism is living it is absorbing C14. Once that organism dies the quantity of C14 becomes fixed. NO NEW C14 can be added and the decay rate clock begins counting down! Once that clock starts it cannot be stopped, slowed down or even sped up! As you yourself just stated the decay rate is constant!

So please explain to me how a fixed finite C14 sample amount with a constant decay rate, suddenly becomes "new"?

That IS THE ILLOGIC being used incorrectly by mathematical geniuses trying to pretend they are also logical geniuses!

The math MUST also be logical! Otherwise the results are pure gibberish!

While the formula being used is "mathematically" sound, it is absolutely illogical and therefore, if I may, gibberish!

Technically speaking that formula states that ANY substance, when measured that way, becomes, "infinite"! Last I checked, the only "infinite" is God!

The correct AND logical formula for a fixed finite C14 sample amount with a CONSTANT decay rate is:

X/2t=0
Posted by Sajoe 7 years ago
It CANNOT be a "new" sample! Do you not understand how C14 works in the life cycle?

As long as an organism is living it is absorbing C14. Once that organism dies the quantity of C14 becomes fixed. NO NEW C14 can be added and the decay rate clock begins counting down! Once that clock starts it cannot be stopped, slowed down or even sped up! As you yourself just stated the decay rate is constant!

So please explain to me how a fixed finite C14 sample amount with a constant decay rate, suddenly becomes "new"?

That IS THE ILLOGIC being used incorrectly by mathematical geniuses trying to pretend they are also logical geniuses!

The math MUST also be logical! Otherwise the results are pure gibberish!

While the formula being used is "mathematically" sound, it is absolutely illogical and therefore, if I may, gibberish!

Technically speaking that formula states that ANY substance, when measured that way, becomes, "infinite"! Last I checked, the only "infinite" is God!

The correct AND logical formula for a fixed finite C14 sample amount with a CONSTANT decay rate is:

X/2t=0
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