The Instigator
Hezikiah
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
bigdave
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Looney Tunes is at it again

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/21/2020 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 294 times Debate No: 125481
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (14)
Votes (0)

 

Hezikiah

Pro

Donald Trump believes that when you stop Covid-19 testing, The cases and deaths will simply disappear
bigdave

Con

I am taking this challenge as I believe that PRO has misconstrued the news. Pro's position is a multiplex. CON will disassemble it into two arguments. #1 Donald Trump believes that when you stop Covid-19 testing, The cases will simply disappear and #2 Donald Trump believes that when you stop Covid-19 testing, The deaths will simply disappear.

On #1 "Donald Trump believes that when you stop Covid-19 testing, The cases will simply disappear"

While it is impossible to delve into the President's "beliefs", We can look at the clinical mechanics involved in how the USA reports the number of cases. Today it is the total of all persons hospitalized with COVID symptoms but not tested yet assumed to be positive, PLUS the number of persons tested positive and hospitalized PLUS the number of persons tested positive but not hospitalized, PLUS the number of persons largely self diagnosed with reported symptoms but not tested. If we label these groups 1, 2, 3, And 4 we can see that:

Group 1 is not tested
Group 2 is tested
Group 3 is tested
Group 4 is not tested

Note that this grouping is not in official use. It is being used in this debate only.

Groups 1 and 2 are hospitalized and will not be included in this argument. Group 4 is not tested ( as of this date ) and may or may not report to health officials and will not be included. Thus we are left with Group 3 ( the number of persons tested positive but not hospitalized ).

If testing of Group 3 is stopped, Would the number of cases decrease? It appears that Group 3 would become Group 4 and the reporting to officials would naturally decrease. This is similar to the mechanics of seasonal flu. Many persons get the flu, But are neither hospitalized, Nor reported to the Public Health officials. Thus many persons who have reason to think they have COVID may simply self quarantine and may or may not report to health officials.

I have found sources where Trump has said that that if we were to reduce the rate of testing, The number of confirmed cases would be a subset of the current reported population. That seems logical, Although I fail to see any positive result that would occur. I know that Belgium is reporting cases based on suspicion ( if it might be COVID, It is reported as COVID whether tested or not ). Germany on the other hand ONLY reports positive results a being COVID. Belgium has the highest rate of COVID deaths in the world, While Germany has among the lowest in the EU.

On #2 " Donald Trump believes that when you stop Covid-19 testing, The deaths will simply disappear. "

I can find NO verification that he made this claim. I will await Pro presenting a source that Trump ever made this claim.
Debate Round No. 1
Hezikiah

Pro

I share your thoughts in your profile. . . I BELIEVE WHAT I BELIEVE

". You have every right to dissect words as much as you want. But that doesn't change the fact Trump is a very sick person. It shows whenever he opens his mouth.
bigdave

Con

This website is called "Debate. Org". Any reasonable person would expect that debate would take place here. Pro has instigated a "debate" and has placed it in the general category of "debates". Any reasonable person would expect that debate would take place here. Pro is now departing from the debate format to wit "a debate is a regulated discussion of a proposition. . . . Between two matched sides" ( Merriam Webster) (#1). Pro has put forth a "proposition" as " Donald Trump believes that when you stop Covid-19 testing, The cases and deaths will simply disappear". That is the proposition that CON is debating.

CON has shown that if testing stops, The number of cases will decrease. As to "simply disappearing" that is usually what happens in a pandemic. From The Atlantic. . . . . "the virus [ will probably do ] what past flu pandemics have done: It burns through the world and leaves behind enough immune survivors that it eventually struggles to find viable hosts. This [ is called the ] "herd immunity" scenario. . . . . " ( #2) In other words, It "simply disappears"

Thus it is shown that the dissected proposition "Donald Trump believes that when you stop Covid-19 testing, The cases will simply disappear" is proven to be a reasonable "belief" and congruent with epidemiological theory. CON will concede that there seems to be no objective reason to stop testing. However within the context of the debate, The belief stands as accurate.

On the second dissected proposition. . . " Donald Trump believes that when you stop Covid-19 testing, The deaths will simply disappear. " CON can not find any indication that Trump said this. CON has asked Pro to provide a source for that statement, But has not seen a response.

Now in round 2 Pro states ". You have every right to dissect words as much as you want. But that doesn't change the fact Trump is a very sick person. It shows whenever he opens his mouth. " CON will dissect this statement below.

A. . . ". You have every right to dissect words as much as you want. "
B. . . ". But that doesn't change the fact Trump is a very sick person. . "
and C, , , " It shows whenever he opens his mouth"

On A. . . ". You have every right to dissect words as much as you want. " CON responds that Pro's original proposition is a multiplex, Composed of 2 different statements, As shown in round #1. To debate this multiplex, It needs to be reduced to its components. CON did this.

On B. . ". But that doesn't change the fact Trump is a very sick person. . ", CON sees this as an opinion, Lacking in citation. CON asks Pro for evidence supporting this opinion.

And on C. . . " It shows whenever he opens his mouth" Again CON sees this as an opinion, Lacking in citation. CON asks Pro for evidence supporting this opinion.

CON has shown that the verified Trump statement ( " Donald Trump believes that when you stop Covid-19 testing, The cases will simply disappear" ) is a reasonable belief and squares with epidemiological theory, Even if that belief has no practical application. With testing, Or without testing, Covid will probably "disappear.

CON is still asking Pro for citations for:

AA, , , , Trump making the statement taken as #2 above " Donald Trump believes that when you stop Covid-19 testing, The deaths will simply disappear. "

BB. . . "". Trump is a very sick person. . " taken as B above. CON sees this as an opinion, Lacking in citation

And CC. . . . " It shows whenever he opens his mouth" taken as C above. Again CON sees this as an opinion, Lacking in citation.

So is Pro going to debate, Or just make accusations without merit?

(#1). . . Https://www. Merriam-webster. Com/dictionary/debate
(#2). . . Https://www. Theatlantic. Com/health/archive/2020/03/how-will-coronavirus-end/608719/
Debate Round No. 2
Hezikiah

Pro

You can argue until Hell Freezes Over but it doesn't change the fact that Trump is mentally deranged
bigdave

Con

This "debate" or whatever this actually is, Was submitted by Pro under the title "Looney Tunes is at it again".

In round 1 Pro makes the proposition "Donald Trump believes that when you stop Covid-19 testing, The cases and deaths will simply disappear" This then is taken as the debate. . . . . EVALUATE THE VERACITY OF THE CLAIM " when you stop Covid-19 testing, The cases and deaths will simply disappear"

CON dissected the proposition into two parts. . . . . . #1 "Donald Trump believes that when you stop Covid-19 testing, The cases will simply disappear" and #2 " Donald Trump believes that when you stop Covid-19 testing, The deaths will simply disappear. "
On part #1 CON has shown that :

A. . . . . With fewer tests, There will be fewer cases reported to the World Health Organization.
B. . . . The virus will, According to epidemiological theory, Act like every other virus and "simply disappear"

Thus it is shown that Part #1 "when you stop Covid-19 testing, The cases will simply disappear" is TRUE, Even though it lacks any practical benefit it terms of national health.

On Part #2, "Donald Trump believes that when you stop Covid-19 testing, The deaths will simply disappear. " CON can find no verification that Trump ever said this. CON asked pro to provide a source and Pro responded " You have every right to dissect words as much as you want. But that doesn't change the fact Trump is a very sick person. It shows whenever he opens his mouth. " CON does not see any merit to this comment within the context of this debate.

Further CON asked Pro to expand on several points. Pro failed to do so.

Here is the list:

CON asked Pro for citations for:

AA, , , , Trump making the statement taken as #2 above " Donald Trump believes that when you stop Covid-19 testing, The deaths will simply disappear. "

BB. . . "". Trump is a very sick person. . " taken as B above. CON sees this as an opinion, Lacking in citation

And CC. . . . " It shows whenever he opens his mouth" taken as C above. Again CON sees this as an opinion, Lacking in citation.

Pro failed to expand on these points

Pro failed to defend his proposition.

Pro has failed to prove his proposition.

So was this intended by Pro as a to debate, Or just a forum to make accusations without merit?

Vote based on the merit of debate, And not on preconceived opinion.

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 3
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Hezikiah 2 months ago
Hezikiah
BSFacts. . . It was fun having you here. I hope you are enjoying your afterlife
Posted by FactsAreAllThatMatters 2 months ago
FactsAreAllThatMatters
Sadly, I am unable to vote on debates yet, As I have not competed in three or more. Once I have, I will most likely make voting a frequent practice.
Posted by Hezikiah 2 months ago
Hezikiah
BSFacts"

You have been on this website for all of 1 day. I doubt you will remain here very long
Posted by Hezikiah 2 months ago
Hezikiah
" But you must have something else to do with your life than to sit here and sound like a small, Petulant child. "

Endless BS from BSFacts
Posted by bigdave 2 months ago
bigdave
Factsareall. . . . I hope you consider voting on this debate
Posted by FactsAreAllThatMatters 2 months ago
FactsAreAllThatMatters
I understand that I should not "poke the troll", But you must have something else to do with your life than to sit here and sound like a small, Petulant child. I mean really, This is just sad. Grow up a little. The fact that I am obviously more mature than you is just depressing.
Posted by bigdave 2 months ago
bigdave
Hezikiah. . . You are long on opinion, Yet short on answers. Think about that. Also this site is for adults.
Posted by Hezikiah 3 months ago
Hezikiah
" Why are you even on this site? "

Littletroll strikes again
Posted by bigdave 3 months ago
bigdave
Hezikiah. . . . . Why are you even on this site?
Posted by Hezikiah 3 months ago
Hezikiah
Littetroll is so excited about the debate vote
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