The Instigator
LucciDamus
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Jocrazyboy
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Mankind would be better off with out a god

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/1/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,553 times Debate No: 117174
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (23)
Votes (0)

 

LucciDamus

Pro

I argue that even though there is a lot of good that come from people who believe in a higher being, There is still more damage done to humanity by faith based religions that have no true grounding in nature than not
Jocrazyboy

Con

This argument has a simular basis as saying that the USA would be better off without a government or the world better off than with an supreme God who are both fair and good to us. God gave us choice and from this we have created are own human condition, So it's more fair to suggest that "Mankind would be better off without a Mankind. " If you can find a single verse in the Bible were God shows hate to mankind and tell me where you found it I will be beyond impressed. Thank you for your time.
Debate Round No. 1
LucciDamus

Pro

I apreciate that let me rephrase so we aren't confused by semantics

Would mankind be better off, As in, Govern its people better or form more effective governments with out the idea that a higher being dictates the consequence to our actions.

I am proposing that with out this idea, Similar to santa clause, We a forced to look more inward and answer tougher everyday questions with in our self.

Besides, Too many gov used the idea of a higher being to manipulate masses into giving them manly power becuase of an idea that only benefited said governemnets.

If heaven or hail is real then yes there is a need for said being but on earth wouldnt we be more independeny, Honest and loving of nature with out seeking faiths that are god based?
Jocrazyboy

Con

To start, When I used the government as an example it was reassembling authority not structure or formation. And I do agree that we hear story's and are minds processes whether we believe and what we accept of that belief. We each find are own supportive reasoning for what we believe. Example: The second law of thermodynamics says that empathy increases with time, There for in a closed system like the universe having a beginning will eventually come to an end. Quantum Physics says that something outside the closed system had to have began the closed system, Which could only be a God since the big bang or any meteor are also closed systems since they weren't there in the beginning. This is my reasoning for God being a viable creator. You also asked why most questions and faiths that are God based. I used to wonder this question myself. Why so many different Gods? I believe are soul was created with the ability to know that there is something of a God or supreme being out there. Thanks.
Debate Round No. 2
LucciDamus

Pro

Again, What about the belief in god, A superior being, Is more beneficial than self growth and self truth in each individual soley based on the nature surrounding us.

If god is simply the spark of the big bang, Then that makes even harder to explain morality, Inteligence or even intention. Science says life started from single cell organism, So are bacteria our god in a sense?

The laws of science are not created to explain but to ask, If we are in a closed system, If entropy always increases. The law of science is in repeating the results, Not the conclusion. If u can repeat something and recieve the expected result, The data is law, Why or how is not.

We can ask the question what would mankind be like with out gov because the people in gov are people. We have seen situations like that in the past. God we have not.

If we were never tricked into takin gold to temples to buy heaven we would have never developed into a greedy consuming sick species.
Jocrazyboy

Con

The true nature around us is of much complex and is very carefully designed by a creator. God had nothing to do with the big bang. The big bang has always been a human source used to explain a creation that they want separated by God. Science doesn't always say that life started from a single organism. Since they still cannot find the "missing link" to what they call Evolution, Nor does God relate to evolution in any way. God said in Genesis that he created each animal in its kind not to change but to stay. You also said, "The laws of science are not created to explain but to ask. " Well then why do people prove them? Why do people even try to prove them if they are to ask? They are not to ask science, But to confirm science. I also get what you mean when you say that entropy in not a conclusion. It's a repeating number. So all we have to do is make it ten X then take one X away, And that's how we get are conclusion. Mankind needs a God otherwise we would be an army without a leader.
Debate Round No. 3
LucciDamus

Pro

Please revisit the question. Youre providing any ideas why mankind is better you are just saying we are with no reasons why.

1. Places where god is not present live more closely to nature, Build less, Destruct the earth less and judge others less.

2. What about an indivuduals ability to challenge themselves. If i never knew of a god, What would make me a good person. My experiences would and my ability to admit to myself when i am being greedy or selfish.

3. I argue that if u raise 3 children to believe their actions are the only thing that affects their life and then raise a separate 3 to believe somthing else is judging there actions, I garuntee the 1st group does more good for society.

Because they dont depend on a belief but rather the fact that if u hit someone u get hit back and if you dont work you dont eat. The other group will praying and judging while the 1st is understanding and providing solutions that people can understand
Jocrazyboy

Con

In question number one you just restated the human condition not God's. Then you went on to say that they destruct. Still that is of the human condition, Even then you go on to say that God goes on to people to judge people. All of it is the human condition! God is not a cause of it, In fact he goes on the repel it. Half of the book of James (the brother of Jesus) talks of how we shouldn't judge others. People aren't good! That's what we call the condition. Since we are all impure, We have all sinned. How do you blame your brother for you shooting someone after he left ten years ago to move to China! Then when you talk of three boys who's actions are the "only" thing that effect their life (not a God), Then would they care about their life if there is not point! God's Bible would instruct the other three boys how to live life. The Bible says the opposite you say. That if you do not work you will not eat, To not judge, To not take revenge. God only effects humanity positively. Thank you
Debate Round No. 4
LucciDamus

Pro

I am not denying that, I know many people feel that way. But why?

The human condition is the human condition but how does a belief in god helps that condition. Yes people are judegemental by nature but the point is does a god idea help or hender.

In a world we are all born with downfalls why are we teaching our children happiness comes from anywhere but whats around us.

You are not adressing the example of the 3 boys for example. 3 boys who grow up in church act good because god gave them thr plan to. The other 3 are good becuase they just want to be. No need for a god or a religion. They just want to smile and see everyone else smiling.

So if all of what you say is so true that you can ignore the question "why do we need god to be happy. " Then i ask this, Why am i so happy?

I never believed in god but i judge myself and do many good and bad things just because i am human. I dont lie ateal or cheat not because god says not too but because wen someone lies to me i dont like it.
Jocrazyboy

Con

To answer your first question on how the belief in God helps the human condition, Well the lord gives us instructions in Deuteronomy of how to control the condition in ten simple commandments. So the answer is yes, He does idea to help and guide us. Then you ask of downfalls. I was always thought happiness comes from the inside, Not of what is around us. "Why am I so happy? " Because the fruit of the spirit is not happiness. Anyone can be happy, And anyone can be sad. It's a natural human characteristic. "Do many good and bad things just because i'm human. " What is good? What is bad? Only this could come from a universal morality! God has formed this morality, And has created it to bring peace to humanity. People naturally know when someone did something wrong. No one gets slapped for no reason and has to thing twice before knowing what they did was wrong. Without God there would be no eternity, No stable morality, And everyone would have a reason to judge someone else. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 5
23 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 11 through 20 records.
Posted by Jocrazyboy 3 years ago
Jocrazyboy
Then so, I explained why it had to be true
Posted by canis 3 years ago
canis
"The first four words in the Bible are "In the beginning God" God was there in the beginning. "
Well that is a book. . .
"Quantum Physics says that something outside the closed system had to have began the closed system, Which could only be a God "
What began the god?

Is it a choise if you believe in pink invisible elephants. . ? No. You can just not imagine a world without. . . Are you better off without? . . Depends on what you imagine the invisible elephants do. . .
Posted by Jocrazyboy 3 years ago
Jocrazyboy
The first four words in the Bible are "In the beginning God" God was there in the beginning. He had to or else he would be a closed system and eventually end, But because God is eternal, He will always exist. If God is a closed system then something had to have created God, Which would be useless for that being. So God was there in the beginning and will be there in the end. Nice question! :D
Posted by canis 3 years ago
canis
"Quantum Physics says that something outside the closed system had to have began the closed system, Which could only be a God "
What began the god?

Is it a choise if you believe in pink invisible elephants. . ? No. You can just not imagine a world without. . . Are you better off without? . . Depends on what you imagine the invisible elephants do. . .
Posted by Jocrazyboy 3 years ago
Jocrazyboy
I do like the Pink elephants, That's pretty funny, And this is prob my best debate yet. So thank you guys for supporting! :)
Posted by Jocrazyboy 3 years ago
Jocrazyboy
Lol, Backwardseden I just proved Gods existence with the laws a nature. Right after you just said, "YOUR god in which you cannot even prove exists. " Then also the question isn't if God is real or not. Please try to stay on topic. Also instead of pulling out the negatives of God that we already know try to pull out the positives and crush them. That's how you win.
Posted by LucciDamus 3 years ago
LucciDamus
You can vote on the arguments already made instead of making you own @everyone
Posted by canis 3 years ago
canis
Is it a choise if you believe in pink invisible elephants. . ? No. You can just not imagine a world without. . . Are you better off without? . . Depends on what you imagine the invisible elephants do. . .
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
god's love? I'm sorry. I totally forgot. Here's something for you. . . YOUR god according to you created the known universe - correct? Well that's a "yes". OK great. Now there are an estimated 125 billion galaxies in the known universe. K? And it is known that at each center of each galaxy are supermassive black holes where light cannot escape. Yep That's just at the centers of galaxies. Imagine how many more black holes exist. There haven't even been 125 billion people ---ever--- to inhabit planet earth. And yet man is supposed to be, Oh gee, I forgot the terminology and I really don't feel like looking it up. . . Yeah in other words, Your god point blank loves black holes BY FAR more than man. Kinda tells you where YOUR god's thinking cap and true "love" is. Save yourself the misery and don't bother replying.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@Jocrazyboy - Trying to squirm out of it doesn't help you son. So you in being impressed that YOUR god in which you cannot even prove exists, You freely admit he hates man, Impressed or not. Strange, But isn't hating the entire human race, Its deliberate genocide really, Namely the great flood, Which never happened, In which you MUST believe in otherwise you don't believe in your god, The wiping out of EVERY LIVING THING (saving two of each species doesn't count, Sorry) which certainly included murdering innocent babies still suckling on their mothers nipples, Children and pregnant mothers (abortions in which you CHRISTIANS are so against - don't worry though there's no such a thing as a christian) ah yes that's what you call moral. So indeed its you that is immoral and completely insane.
"And it grieved him to his heart. " Who here doesn't grieve regrets? " Well since this segment is referring to god, Well your god is supposed to be perfect. There's no regrets. This god of yours would have known his future before his choices were already made IF your god is a god and omnipotent. In other words he would have known he would have committed his multiple genocides and then other homicides for no reason at all thus killing 2, 821, 364 in his bible and showing no morality, Like you, BEFORE it was going to be happening thus no regrets would be required. Now since god already knows his choices before they are to be made, It means he has no free will. So do yah really think man has free will as you tried, But failed miserably to argue in my other debate? Oh and btw, The christ and or NT loophole doesn't work at all because this god of YOURS never appointed this christ of YOURS to be god's holy sidekick anywhere in YOUR bible. Christ the egotist appointed himself. Sorry. Christ is not god. According to the bible he is the son of god. BIG DIFFERENCE. Btw, The NT is a lot worse than the OT with the concept of hell, Suffering is a good thing, The end of the world, Etc
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