The Instigator
Jesusismysavior
Pro (for)
The Contender
Con (against)
Anonymous

Mary was sinless

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/16/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 568 times Debate No: 115605
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

Jesusismysavior

Pro

Mary was sinless for her entire life.

Con

No, Mary was not sinless her entire life. I'll post an opening statement after my opponent does. I'm assuming standard rules apply, correct?
Debate Round No. 1
Jesusismysavior

Pro

I'm assuming my opponent will use Romans 3:23 "all have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God." and 1 John 1:8 "If any man says he has no sin he is a lair and the truth is not in him.". Even more Mary said it for herself right? Luke 1:47 "My soul rejoices in God my savior". The Catholic Church actually agrees that Mary was "saved". Indeed Mary needed a savior. However, Mary was "saved" from sin in an excellent way. She was given the grace to be "saved" completely from sin so that she never committed even the slightest transgressions. We know this can be the case because in Jude 1:24-25 the verses express this type of salvation. Think of it this way, falling into sin is like a man approaching unaware a deep ditch. If he falls into the ditch, he needs someone to help him out or "save" him. But if someone were to warn him of the danger ahead, preventing the man from falling into the ditch at all, he would be "saved" from falling in the first place. Likewise, Mary was saved from sin by receiving grace to be preserved from it. But she was still saved. What about Romans 3:23 and 1 John 1:8? Wouldn't "all" and "any man" include Mary? At first this may seem reasonable. But if you were to think this way then you would list Jesus Christ in the "all have sinned" category. No faithful Christian would dare say that. Thus, to take Romans 3:23 and 1 John 1:8 in a literal sense would apply "all" and "any man" to Jesus as well. Now, we know Jesus was an exception to Romans 3:23 and 1 John 1:8 because Hebrews 4:15 tells us so. But are there any other exceptions to this rule? Yes, millions of them. Both Romans 3:23 and 1 John 1:8 deal with personal sin rather than original sin, that we have all sinned personally and not that we have all had the stain of original sin. We know Romans 3:23 deals with personal sin because of the context verses 10-14 "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands, no one seeks for God. All have turned aside, together they have gone wrong; no one does good, not even one. Their throat is an open grave. They use their tongues to deceive. The venom of asps is under their lips. Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness." Original sin is not something we do, it is something we've inherited. Romans 3 deals with personal sin because it speaks of sins committed by the sinner. With this in mind, consider this: Has a 2 year old or a baby in the womb ever committed a personal sin? No. To sin a person has to know the act he is about to perform is sinful while freely engaging his will in carrying it out. Without the proper power to enable them to sin, children before the age of accountability and anyone who does not have the use of his intellect and will cannot sin. We also know Romans 3 deals with personal sin not original because Romans 5 deals with original sin. 1 John 1:8 obviously refers to personal sin because in the very next verse, 1 John 1:9, John says "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins..." We don't confess original sin; we confess personal sins. Therefore there are and have been millions of exceptions to Romans 3:23 and 1 John 1:8. Still, How do we know Mary is and exception to "all have sinned"? Luke 1:28-30 "And the angel Gabriel came to Mary and said, 'Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!' But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be. And the angel said to her,'Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God." According to Mary, this was no common greeting as she was "greeting troubled at the saying and considered in her mind 'what sort of greeting this might be". What was so uncommon for Mary to react this way? According to biblical scholars such as Pope John Paul II, the angel did more than greet Mary. The angel actually communicated a new name or title to her. In Greek, the greeting was "Kaire, Kekaritomene", or "Hail full of grace." When one greeted another with kaire in the Bible, a name or title would be found in the immediate context. Example-"Hail, king of the Jews" in John 19:3. St. Luke uses the perfect passive participle, kerkaritomene, as his "name" for Mary. This word literally means "she who has been graced" in a completed sense. The verbal adjective "graced" is not just describing a simple past action. Greek has another tense for that. The perfect tense is used to indicate that an action has been completed in the past resulting in a present state of being. "Full of grace" is Mary's name. We are not completed in grace and in a permanent sense, Philippians 3:8-12. But according to the angel, Mary is completed in grace. We sin not because of grace but because of a lack of grace, or a lack of our cooperation with grace. This greeting by the angel is one clue into the unique character and calling of the Mother of God. Only Mary is given the name "full of grace" in the perfect tense, indicating that this permanent state of Mary was completed. I may go into the reason why Mary is the "Ark of the New Covenant" and why she is the "New Eve" in my next round.
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Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
Masterful
Her lie begun to spiral out of control very rapidly as her son believed he was the son of God and ended up getting nailed to the cross for being a public nuisance.
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
Masterful
Mary had a baby with another man, lied and claimed a magical force impregnated her. She sinned.
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