The Instigator
Negotiate
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
winter22
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Men are oppressed in today's society.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/28/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,040 times Debate No: 109865
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

Negotiate

Pro

In this brief debate, I wish to respectfully debate how men are being oppressed in today's society. During this debate, we will follow Collins Dictionary's definition of the word 'oppressed'- "People who are oppressed are treated cruelly or are prevented from having the same opportunities, freedom, and benefits as others." This debate will consist of a mere three rounds; the first being devoted to acceptance and addressing your claim, the second being devoted to evidence and support, and with the final round being the conclusion to our arguments.

I will take pro, as I believe that men are- according to the definition above- oppressed in society today. My claim is that men are oppressed in several ways today's society-
one being their suicide rate, for example.

I'm happy to debate with anyone who's willing, no requirements. Feel free to leave me a comment or message in the meantime. Thanks everyone! Looking forward to this debate with you.
winter22

Con

I will respectfully debate right back with you. I will also follow that definition of oppressed.

I am first off a little confused about your claim, I feel like it is worded a little weirdly. But in any case, I will try my best in this debate and show my claim.

My Claim: In today's society some think that in a twist of fate, men are actually oppressed rather than women, who are currently fighting for their rights within many countries, yet women are much more oppressed than men are in today's world.

Good luck, hope to have a nice and respectful debate.
Debate Round No. 1
Negotiate

Pro

As far as I can see, you are very respectful and professional during debates- so to me, you are an excellent contender! It doesn't even seem that you are biased in any way ( or at least it isn't distinctive).

I apologize for my confusing claim. As I reread it I can tell that it is very confusing and doesn't match with what I had indented on saying. Please, allow me to rewrite my claim for the purpose of clarity- My claim is that men have been oppressed for a variety of reasons. One reason for example, is the female-men ratio in college and universities- taking away the academic opportunities for men.

*NOTE: these take on a list format, and are more notes instead of sentences, if that's alright with everyone.

*My reasons:
1. Men are academically oppressed- which can lower their chances of finding a job without meeting proper education requirements, for example.
- the male-female ratio in universities and colleges is significantly uneven. Daniel Borzelleca, a contributor for Forbes, writes that "On a national scale, public universities had the most even division between male and female students, with a male-female ratio of 43.6"56.4. While that difference is substantial, it still is smaller than private not-for-profit institutions (42.5-57.5) or all private schools (40.7-59.3)."
- the men's ( ages 15-24) high school dropout rate of over 4 years (2009-2012) is statistically different compared with woman's high school dropout rate as shown in Table 3 of the NCES "Trends in High School Dropout and Completion Rates in the United States: 1972"2012, Compendium Report."
- "boys take the lion"s share (70%) of D"s and failing grades," according to Collegestats.org's "9 SIGNS WE HAVE A 'BOY CRISIS'".

2. Men are oppressed when it comes to crime
- "Adult men make up about 80% of prison inmates, but boys are incarcerated at an even higher ratio compared to girls at the juvenile level. They are sentenced to juvenile detention facilities five times more than their female counterparts," according to Collegestats.org.
- "A fact that goes hand-in-hand with boys" high rate of incarceration is that they are up to five times more likely to die by homicide (as in 2004) and up to seven times more likely to die in a gun-related death than girls. These are the boys who got out of juvenile detention or managed to never be sent there and who raised their risk factors through certain high-risk behaviors, as laid out by the Department of Health and Human Services," according to Collegestats.org

3. Men are oppressed in the workplace- while many believe that wages are different between men and women, other issues have been addressed that disenvow this claim- rather supporting men's oppression instead.
- "the days they worked, employed men worked 52 minutes more than employed women. This difference partly reflects women's greater likelihood of working part time. However, even among full-time workers (those usually working 35 hours or more per week), men worked longer than women"8.4 hours compared with 7.8 hours," according to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics ( US BLS).
- this hints at the debunking of the idea that women are paid less, because statistics clearly state that it's an issue of HOURS WORKED, rather than wages gaps
- as for how this relates to men's oppression in the workplace, work is often said to cause stress and anxiety. With logic one may conclude that the more hours worked, the more stress and anxiety may result- which can be a heavy burden psychologically.
- according to data collected by the US BLS, the unemployment rate in 2017 for men has been as high as 4.8, with the most significant differences between men and women being in October and March of 2017, with .3 difference during each month. Between men and women, men have had the highest unemployment rate- 8/12 months ( 3/12 being ties, and 1 month of women having the highest unemployment rate.)

4. Men are oppressed socially- it seems to me that more and more videos and discussions address how men are socially oppressed through harassment and exclusion from social groups consisting of woman
- "Kelvin O, PsyD, was one of 12 men in a class of 70 in the clinical psychology graduate program at Alliant International University in Los Angeles. "Sometimes I felt like my voice wasn't really heard," he says. Being one of the few men in his program also made him feel socially isolated. "There were girls' nights and girls' outings," he says. Naturally, he wasn't invited. "I kind of felt left out at times," he says, adding that he probably missed out on some networking opportunities," according to Cassandra Willyard's "Men: A growing minority?" She writes in this cover story anecdotes from men in the Psychology field, explaining through their own quotes about their story in a graduate program.
- during a political meeting, a congresswoman in question states to the man questioning her about "sexism and misogyny" that "she will not be lectured by this man" and "if you want to see a misogynist look in the mirror."
- this relates to the issue of social oppression because this congresswoman was harassing a man who, did not seem to purposely offend her but instead, question her- the purpose of the meeting. Her response with fighting back was more so harassment than a mature and professional response that should be expected from a political leader. A video of the meeting is located in my sources.

Because this is such a dense topic full of different perspectives, I realize it can be very hard for everyone to find and write well-backed claims, and with such a short time-frame ( obviously my fault, my apologies) and short character cap ( once again, my fault [ geeze! I'm on a roll!]) it is understandable. Either way, what matters is that the person debating cares about the topic and cares to put the effort into supporting your beliefs on the topic. So in that case, I'm looking forward to your points! Thanks for the read everyone!

If you have any questions feel free to cover them in your turn, or message me. I'm always happy to get feedback and will try and respond as soon as possible.

Sources ( please, excuse my poor organization) -
#1) male-female ratio
https://www.forbes.com...
#1) men & woman drop out rates
https://nces.ed.gov...
#1, 2) Collegestats.org
https://collegestats.org...
#3) US BLS
https://www.bls.gov...
https://www.bls.gov...
#4) congress meeting

#4) "Men: A growing minority?"
http://www.apa.org...
winter22

Con

To start off, I am female so most people assume I am a feminist, they are partially right. I do not believe in all the feminists who believe that women are above men now, no no I believe that everyone and I mean everyone is equal. Were we all put on this earth? Yes, and we all serve to be a part of history. So I am not really biased, I just think everyone is equal and I am interested in seeing your side.

It is perfectly fine, sometimes things do not come out exactly the way we want them to, I get that. If you do not mind, I normally do my claims in paragraph form, I find it easier.

I firmly believe in the rights of everyone, and equality. But the scientific fact of the matter is that things are never going to be equal between men and women. Some things are always going to be different about us, like our physical structures and brain structure. These things that I am talking about currently may not seem relevant, so let me explain.

I originally went with a claim challenging just men being oppressed and not being treated equal, but after doing a bit of research I decided to tweak my claim a little bit if that"s all right. I am still con- against what your claim is. But now I am not for women being more oppressed than men. My new claim is: Women continue to fight for women"s rights/equality, now men are too, but the answer is just that it will simply never be perfectly equal. Basically, my stance here is that there should be no point in saying that one gender is more oppressed than the other, make sense? If not message me and I can explain more. I am still fighting against the fact that men are oppressed but I am also solving another problem by saying that people should not be comparing the genders.

So men and women have a lot in common right, but we have even more that is not in common. Gender, body structure, and even different brain structures. Nothing will ever be completely equal between men and women, let me tell you why.

So one main reason why it will never be completely equal is that of our brain structures being different. Nirao Shah was one of the first to really go into studying the differences in women"s and men"s brains in 1998. He centered his studies on mating, parenting, and aggression and the differences that the sexes had. At this time many people believed that when someone observed sex-associated differences it was because the people were influenced by culture, but really these are instincts needed to survive that are practically instinct. Here I am not saying that one gender is better than the other, but just that both sexes minds are so different.

Studies show that women"s reading comprehension skills, as well as writing abilities, exceed that of men on average. They also tend to do better than men on tests of fine-motor coordination as well as speed. Women also have a bigger hippocampus which is associated with memory and learning. I think that this really shows that your evidence of "men have fewer numbers in universities than females" is true BECAUSE(emphasis not yelling) of how our brains are different and won"t be equal. This means that men are not really being oppressed here, just that their brain works differently and hence means that they might not all get into the best schools. But women are also more likely to get clinical depression in life, meaning that they do have more accounts of it than men, in this case, men are not being oppressed it is just simply the fact that females are more likely to get it. (SOURCE: https://stanmed.stanford.edu... )

As for your evidence of men are oppressed when it comes to crime, I have found some evidence to prove why this is (which also adds more to why we should not consider one more oppressed than the other in some things that cannot be helped). In some of the same studies done by Niroa Shuh, they found out that men are more likely to become drug-dependant and alcohol dependent. First becoming dependant on these drugs often happens in high school, when teenagers have parties with alcohol and drugs. This means that they may get caught more (in the drug area at least) and be sent off to jail more. Men in this sense are really not being oppressed, they are just scientifically more likely to be going to jail. And while they get into gun-related deaths, they might have been under the influence. (SOURCE: https://stanmed.stanford.edu... )

As for the work-related problems of men being oppressed I already sort of addressed. Even if men do tend to work more than women do during the work week, they tend not to have as much focus so they might not get as much done. This isn"t the case for all men and frankly, scientific research doesn"t have anything to prove why the genders should not be paid equally.

Men being oppressed in social situations has happened for a long time. That is mostly thanks to the media, social media, and games. Men are seen as dumb, obnoxious, and one-minded. When really that is not true for the majority of men on this earth. Media is the problem here about them being oppressed. Scientific facts have nothing to say about this, men are not always all of these traits, and these thoughts are created by media.

Because I said a lot there and changed my claim a little, it can be confusing. If you are confused simply message me, I check about three times a day. So a recap - I am still fighting to prove that men are not really oppressed, but I am also trying to prove at this point that both genders are not going to be perfectly equal because of differences. So I believe that people should consider that no one is perfect, no gender is perfect, so one is not more oppressed than the other.

Sorry, that was a lot, I had a lot to get out. As always if I am confusing you, leave a comment or drop a message.
Until next round Negotiate, good luck
Debate Round No. 2
Negotiate

Pro

Not a problem! Yours is definitely cleaner and more organized! Hopefully this conclusion doesn't seem rude- It is not my intention,

Before I conclude my half of the debate, I want to go back to some of your points. First of all, I'm a little concerned that the claim was off from the subject matter- men's oppression. While I realize that you are well-aware of this, I'm not quite sure how to debate with a claim that doesn't perfectly fit within the debate question. Aside from this, I discovered a couple points she made that I would like to cover.

1) Just because our brains are different is not an excuse for these numbers. These differences in brains between genders is not prohibiting change. While these brain differences can't be fixed, the numbers certainly can be helped through academic attention . In fact, when you look into today's treatment of young boys in school settings you will find that they are mistreated academically. Proof? This is a video by Christina Hoff Sommers called the "War on Boys" that covers exactly this.

2) As I tried to talk about during my second round, how much you earn is NOT based on pay but on hours. Proof? The Equal Pay Law of 1963. The Equal Pay Law of 1963 states: "(1) No employer having employees subject to any provisions of this section shall discriminate, within any establishment in which such employees are employed, between employees on the basis of sex by paying wages to employees in such establishment at a rate less than the rate at which he pays wages to employees of the opposite sex in such establishment for equal work on jobs the performance of which requires equal skill, effort, and responsibility, and which are performed under similar working conditions, except where such payment is made pursuant to (i) a seniority system; (ii) a merit system; (iii) a system which measures earnings by quantity or quality of production; or (iv) a differential based on any other factor other than sex." Logically, as an employer, I would rather equally pay my staff than pay potentially millions in lawsuits as I would have have broken the law in that case.
https://www.eeoc.gov...

3) As for your point on men becoming drug dependent- it goes back to the idea of how men are oppressed socially. According to M.Farouk Radwan, people drink alcohol for several reasons; "mood regulation, to let others see them differently, and to prove something & protect their beliefs." In my mind at least, these are socially-related issues. While I realize that this is universal between genders, it still applies to men. If men are walking into parties as teenagers, a critical time for them to find their identities, believing that they need to drink to "prove something and let others see them differently," to me we could consider that oppression, if we know why the teen wanted to drink.
https://www.2knowmyself.com...

In conclusion, I believe that men are oppressed socially, academically, in the workplace, etc. To be specific, men are oppressed through their amount of hours worked, their academic treatments, their association with crime, etc.

Thanks for the debate and good luck! You did awesome for your first debate- meanwhile I hope I was at least sufficient.
winter22

Con

I am sure that your conclusion does not seem rude, again you are just stating your side.

I am sorry about my claim changing a bit, I am glad that you were able to address some of my points though.

Thank you for the debate as well, it is good to know that you think I did well in my first debate. Thank you for debating with me.
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by WOLF.J 3 years ago
WOLF.J
its 50-50 in terms of oppression, both genders love-hate each other on n off
No votes have been placed for this debate.

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