The Instigator
FanboyMctroll
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Ettina
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Mental illness is no excuse for being a criminal

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/5/2018 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,973 times Debate No: 118465
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (19)
Votes (0)

 

FanboyMctroll

Pro

Too many times I see criminals get off on the offence of "found not guilty by reason of insanity" This is an absolute BS excuse for what a person did.

Everyone is responsible for their actions, I don't care if you are autistic, Schizophrenic, Bi-polar, Delusional, Paranoid or whatever other fvcked up mental illness you have, It doesn't excuse you from committing crimes.

The mentally ill should be tried the same way as any other sane criminal. I don't care if you are mentally ill, That is no excuse for committing crimes. It's still you, Don't use the excuse, Well I was insane at the time so I butchered that person or decapitated someone and ate their tongue.

There should be no insane defense, You commit a crime you do the time, You kill someone and you are mentally ill, You still get the needle!
Ettina

Con

I suppose I'll take this one.

I do not believe in the death penalty for anyone, But that's a separate debate. So, I'd rather debate the merits of jail sentences for crimes committed due to mental illness.

The purpose of a jail sentence is threefold:

a) to protect the public while the offender is in jail

b) to serve as a deterrent to others in a similar situation to the offender

c) if not a life sentence, To convince the offender not to do the same thing again in the future once they get out

The brain is an organ like any other, And it, Too, Can malfunction. In some cases, This results in someone who genuinely did not make a free moral choice regarding whether or not to commit a crime.

For example, A person experiencing a psychotic episode might genuinely believe that pushing her children out of a window several stories up was the only way to save them from eternal torment. (This is an actual case I read about. ) In a case like that, The moral decision that she believed she was making (kill her children quickly or let them suffer eternal torment) was very different from the real moral implications of her decision, And she would have made a very different choice if her perception of reality was not distorted.

In a case like that, The only benefit of jail time would be to protect the public, And the public can be just as protected if she is instead in a high-security mental hospital (which is where she ended up). It won't serve as a deterrent to anyone in a similar situation, Because someone who is suffering from acute psychosis is not going to make a rational cost-benefits analysis - they quite simply are not capable of doing so. It also won't make her any less likely to do the thing in the future, For the same reason. The only thing that will make her less likely to murder someone in the future is getting her psychotic symptoms under control with medication.

A question - have you ever played a video game or watched a movie or TV show featuring a good guy getting mind controlled? Would you consider that character responsible for their actions under the effects of mind control? After all, It's still them doing that thing, Even though they didn't choose to do so.
Debate Round No. 1
FanboyMctroll

Pro

FanboyMctroll forfeited this round.
Ettina

Con

Ettina forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
FanboyMctroll

Pro

Let's continue this debate after some DDO forfeit issues last round

Further to your point about mental illness, I agree with you that a mentally ill person should be locked up to protect the public, The problem is our parole board is a JOKE, And these people get back out there again, And how many times are we going to use the excuse of mental illness for crimes being committed. The mentally ill on average get out of jail 1/2 the times faster than a felon who does not have mental illness. We give the mentally ill medication and treat them as if nothing happened. The problem with that is, You can't expect to have the mentally ill person take their medication on their own, Many have side effects to psychosis medication and eventually stop taking it and revert back to the mental illness that landed them in jail in the first place.

Just read the Greyhound bus incident in Canada, I would attach the link but DDO crashes when I try to attach links. This freak got off with mental illness in court after decapitating a guy and eating his tongue and now he is walking around on the streets 5 years later. The guy should have been guillotined for the crime, Not fed meds and excused.

The mentally ill should be treated the same way as any other criminal, You kill someone, You get the needle. Not the excuse well you are ill, Can I use that excuse next time I have a cold? "well I was ill with a runny nose and fever so I was irritated and killed someone, I think I should be given Tylenol and a 6 months sentence for murder your honor"

as for the good guy being mind controlled, I DON'T CARE, You do the crime, You do the time, It's still YOU, Don't use the excuse well I was mind controlled, First off, That doesn't exist, Second, Every criminal uses that excuse and third of all someone has to pay for the crime, Victims families need justice and you did it. Don't blame aliens or some other mind controller, It's still you!

Case closed, The mentally ill ARE GUILTY, And should be turned into pig feed
Ettina

Con

You don't understand the concept of an analogy? I'm well aware that mind control isn't real.

I wonder if this analogy will be more understandable to you. Awhile back, A woman threw her baby off of the Capilano bridge in North Vancouver. Luckily, The baby suffered only minor injuries, But she could easily have been much more seriously hurt or even killed. She apparently did this because she found her baby difficult to look after and didn't want her anymore.

I think we can both agree that she is a terrible person who deserves serious punishment. But what about another woman who is standing on the bridge, Holding a baby, And then faints and drops the baby accidentally? It's still her hands that dropped the baby. Do you think she deserves the same punishment as that woman who deliberately threw her baby?

Or how about another analogy? There was a little boy, About 3 years old, Whose mother gave him a gun, Showed him how to pull the trigger, And told him it would be a fun game if he pointed it at his father and pulled the trigger. The boy then shot and killed his father. Do you think he should be punished the same as an adult who shoots and kills someone?

Incidentally, In terms of protecting the public, The research shows that all else being equal, A convicted criminal with a diagnosis of schizophrenia or a related condition is less likely to ever do it again than someone without that diagnosis.

You mentioned that the guy who beheaded someone on the bus is walking free right now. Were you aware that, Close to a decade after he got free, He has never committed any crimes since? Last I heard, He's been on his meds for a decade and is doing great, Except for the crippling guilt.

Not everyone with schizophrenia goes off their meds, And I strongly suspect someone who seriously injured or killed someone while psychotic is a lot less likely to want to go off their meds than someone who just acted weirdly and had trouble functioning. I know I certainly would be more willing to put up with side effects if the alternative could be someone's death. Plus, People who've been declared not guilty by reason of insanity aren't just released without supervision once they get their mental illness under control.

You don't seem to believe in the concept of mental illness. But just because you refuse to believe something doesn't change the reality. Mental illness exists, And it can make you do things you would never do if you were in your right mind. I know people personally who have done things because of a mental illness that they'd never have done otherwise, Though luckily no one was hurt. They're not bad people who are making up an excuse, They are good people struggling with something that happened to them that they couldn't control.
Debate Round No. 3
19 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by alitar 3 years ago
alitar
Actually some criminals never reoffend and deserve a second chance. Second you provide to facts to prove that mental illness should be a defense for a crime. Third, Pleading mental illness doesn't let you go free! You get sent to an insane asylum.
Posted by FanboyMctroll 3 years ago
FanboyMctroll
Block19, Don't tell me you are the bleeding heart parole board "everyone deserves a second chance" "people change" type lame individual?

Wake up and smell the crap people feed you, People don't change, Dirt bags and meth heads don't change, Stop making excuses for people.

You do the crime, You do the time

Stop being a bleeding heart liberal!
Posted by Block19 3 years ago
Block19
That is exactly the kind of baseless nonsensical dribble i have come to expect from you Fanboy.
Posted by FanboyMctroll 3 years ago
FanboyMctroll
There is no such thing as a person unfit to stand trial. Everyone should be subject to a lynching if they murder someone, I don't care if they have schizophrenia, Autism, Bi-polar, Dissociative personality or whatever other fvcked up excuse they want to use.

You do the crime, You serve the time, Being mentally retarded is no excuse for committing crimes.

Parole is a waste of time anyways, Criminals will always be criminals, There is no way of rehabilitating a criminal degenerate, They don't change, Just keep them locked up for life or execute them.

Everyone has a choice before committing a crime
Posted by Block19 3 years ago
Block19
It looks like you are that ignorant, The court dismissing a case because a person is unfit to serve trail is not the same as a parole board letting a person out on parole, And it is certainly not the same as just being set free.
Posted by FanboyMctroll 3 years ago
FanboyMctroll
@ Block19, It happens everyday, The parole board releases violent criminals after their time is served, And guess what in 6 months they are back in jail again.

There is a nutjob in Canada who decapitated a guy on a Grayhound bus, Then ate his tongue and guess what? He is free 5 years later, Look it up, Grayhound bus decapitation

I can't attach links or my posts crash on DDO
Posted by FanboyMctroll 3 years ago
FanboyMctroll
Illness is no excuse for committing crimes, That's like me saying "well I had that darn migraine so I had to kill the person in front of me because they were making too much noise' so I'm innocent because I was ill with a migraine. PLEASE

I don't care if you are ill, It's still you committing the crime, You do the crime, You do the time, NO EXCUSE
Posted by Ettina 3 years ago
Ettina
Fanboy McTroll doesn't seem like they are really capable of reasoned debate. I haven't seen any actual logic, Just insults and repetition of opinion. Why is it that people who like to use 'retard' as an insult so often seem to lack intelligence themselves?

However you may wish to deny it, The reality of the matter is that the brain is an organ and it can get sick just like any other organ. It makes no sense to punish someone for showing symptoms of an illness, Even if their symptoms cause harm to someone else.
Posted by Block19 3 years ago
Block19
Are you really that ignorant that you think a court will let a person who has been deemed a potential threat go free, Just because they don't think he is sane enough to be fairly convicted? You really have no idea how courts work do you?
Posted by FanboyMctroll 3 years ago
FanboyMctroll
Both, Don't use the excuse of your retardedness to get away with committing any type of crime. It's still you whether you are mental or not
No votes have been placed for this debate.

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