The Instigator
Mr_Popper
Con (against)
The Contender
Sonofcharl
Pro (for)

Minimum wage in a (completely) capitalist system

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Argument Due
We are waiting for Mr_Popper to post their argument for round #3. If you are Mr_Popper, login to see your options.
Time Remaining
01day02hours12minutes41seconds
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/11/2019 Category: Economics
Updated: 1 day ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 93 times Debate No: 120273
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

Mr_Popper

Con

I don't believe minimum wage should be implemented in a pure capitalist system because it goes against the point of capitalism. First, Let's define capitalism. The dictionary definition of capitalism is "an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, Rather than by the state. " Minimum wage contradicts this as it regulates how much a private owner can pay its employees. In a capitalist system, Why should the government decide how much you can pay those YOU employee? It seems so over controlling and unnecessary for them to be involved in such a thing. I could see fair payment becoming a concern, However, But naturally different jobs would warrant different pay and the value of money would naturally shift to account for any changes in average pay.

I would like to clarify I'm not saying this is relevant to any specific country like the United States, As the US isn't completely capitalist and has some government intervention. This is merely an argument about capitalism itself.
Sonofcharl

Pro

A stylised debate in which Con sets seemingly impossible parameters.
But on reflection the obvious flaw in the proposition is to be found in the word "completely".
A completely capitalist system would not consider a minimum wage. Wage control and other regulatory policies would be considered separately by autonomous institutions of government.

Any State requires governance in order to maintain social stability. Capitalism alone cannot maintain social order.
There also needs to be administrative, Legislative, And authoritative institutions.

Ultimately you are going to end up with a socially democratic type system, Embracing the principles of capitalism.
The alternative is most likely to be autocratic, Anti- capitalist, Pseudo-socialism with control over everything.

Realistically, Complete capitalism is impossible. Therefore Con's proposition can only be considered hypothetically.
And hypotheses are free to set their own parameters. Which realistically can only be discussed rather than opposed.

Probably the best we could hope for in a completely capitalist society is that philanthropy takes precedence over greed.
Debate Round No. 1
Mr_Popper

Con

I actually agree with you. Soon after I first submitted by opening argument, I realized that it would be difficult to discuss it as we're not talking about an actual existing country. I decided it could be more of a discussion about the concept of capitalism instead of a specific country, Although even then I'm not sure anyone could argue that the minimum wage fits capitalism.

We could talk about a specific country like the United States instead if you'd like.
Sonofcharl

Pro

Well.

I would say that the U. S. A. Fits the profile that I alluded to. A Socially Democratic System that embraces the principles of Capitalism.

Of course, Capitalism is relative to monetarism and in a capitalist society the supply of money is relative to ability and success.

Realistically we do not all share the same abilities nor the same abilities to achieve. As a species we are undoubtedly unequal and naturally hierarchical. This is obviously why socialism always fails and some form of hierarchical society always develops.

Ultimately there are only two real options:
1) The total subjugation of those that are not able to compete. With no regard for their existence or their survival.

2) Or a system where the high achievers are prepared to support low achievers to an agreed level, Commensurate with the needs of a reasonably comfortable existence. In a society where money is the chief deciding factor this can only be addressed through social intervention in one guise or another. Minimum wage being one option.

One would hope that The U. S. A. A society that often labels itself as the leader of the free world, Fits into the second of these two categories.

Of course. If we took a world wide view. We would obviously see that there are other social systems that do not fit neatly into these two main categories.
Debate Round No. 2
This round has not been posted yet.
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Mr_Popper 5 days ago
Mr_Popper
I agree with you for the most part. I haven't really researched the subject of minimum wage lowering/raising effects all that much, As I'm not necessarily arguing it should be removed in a country like America. I guess what I'm trying to say is that minimum wage goes against the idea of capitalism as a concept.
Posted by emsiblook 5 days ago
emsiblook
I don't know enough about the subject to accept, But surely we need to have a way in which we protect those at the bottom who are unable to find any job and thus have to settle for pennies? We have minimum wage because if we don't allow those people to thrive, We remove the opportunity for those people to climb up the ladder because they're so far down the bottom there's no chance for them.

This might be a problem particularly for monopolies, Who feel they can exploit workers because they're so big no one can say anything against it, Because we need their products. Everyone's buying them.
Posted by Athias 5 days ago
Athias
Interesting subject. I'll be paying intention should a contender accept the challenge.
This debate has 0 more rounds before the voting begins. If you want to receive email updates for this debate, click the Add to My Favorites link at the top of the page.