The Instigator
Debater2018
Pro (for)
The Contender
luanism
Con (against)

Neither the Old nor New Testament address the LGBT issue

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/1/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 410 times Debate No: 116175
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
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Debater2018

Pro

There are 2 sections in the Old Testament that are referred to by those who have been misled into believing that they teach against the lgbt community.
The first is the Sodom/Gomorrah destruction of Genesis chapter 18. However, today we possess the knowledge that the area in question was destroyed over 1000 years before Abraham was born. It was destroyed by a disintegrating asteroid approx. 3400 B.C. The story may have been inspired by many of the resulting salt pillars in the basin that from a distance, resemble standing human statues.
The 2nd section of the Old Testament that so many have been led to believe that address this issue is the book of Leviticus chapters 18 and 20.
The way a number of key ancient Hebrew words have been mistranslated into the English language, has helped to create hostility against the lgbt community for many, many, years. The key words in Leviticus 18,20 will be opened in the 1st Affirmative.
The New Testament scripture of 1st Corinthians 6:9 with the 2 key Koine Greek words , will be shown to have been deliberately mistranslated. Last, the section of Romans chapter 1 where many have been taught condemns the lgbt, will be shown to be addressing something else that all are capable of.
luanism

Con

What's your point? lol
Debate Round No. 1
Debater2018

Pro

Since the Sodom and Gomorrah destruction story is so often referred to as to how God feels about the lgbt community, I think it best to start here.

It is now known that this area was the scene of the aftermath called Kofel's Imact Event of June 29th 3123 B.C. According to the article in Phs.Org March 31st 2008 the asteroid started out being over 1 km in diameter. It became a fireball 5 km wide over the Levant, Sinai, and northern Egypt. This fireball or (plume) was of such superheat that it destroyed the area in question.

The reasoning for the story, according to some scholars I have read, was due to the antagonistic feelings between the nomadic tribes vs the city dwellers. The city dwellers we're not as hospitable to the nomads as the nomads were to others according to the article from bibleresources.americanbible.org
In effort to counter this, those who hold the literalist position, say that Jesus used the destruction of these two cities for illustration. However, Jesus also used a number of other Old Testament stories for illustration that we know are made of 'alternative facts'.

The second 'weapon' of the Old Testament that many have been wrongly led to believe how God feels about the lgbt community, is the Law of Moses. Namely, a number of verses in Leviticus chapters 18 and 20.
Before beginning here, it would help tremendously if the viewers of this debate would read carefully these two chapters, especially near to the end of each.

The way these two chapters were translated into English, the casual reader may tend to gloss over them and assume they are addressing private sins. This is not correct, as the ending to these chapters state that the reason the Canaanites were being purged from the land was because they were committing these acts. Since private sins have been, and still are, committed in every community on earth, this rules 'private sins' out.
Since the first word that literalist turn to in the Law of Moses when discussing lgbt issues is 'abomination' this is the word we shall start with. There are actually 3 ancient Hebrew words translated into 1 English word. The most used of the 3 and the most severe is TOWEBAH. I will be using Strong's Exaustive Concordance and Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament for my sources.
TOWEBAH- made impure and illicit by decrees of religion, things belonging to the worship of idols, and of idols themselves.
Notice how unrepulsive this definition seems to be to us. Nothing like we thought. However, to God, this is the most terrible of definitions. This is the Hebrew word found throughout all of the book of Leviticus. Now the word so many casual readers assumed was in it's place was SHIQQUWTS- filthy, idolatrous, disgusting. This word is only in a few places in the Old Testament and like TOWEBAH is not referring to the subject at hand.
To show that TOWEBAH is used publicly in these two chapters, the writings give us the meaning in the word Uncover GALAH- to make nude (espec. in a disgraceful sense); by impl. to exile (captives being usually stripped) into captivity.
The only other Hebrew word translated into English as Uncover in Leviticus is found in Lev.10:6 PARA- uncover not your heads. It means 'to expose'.
The second word that tells us this is a public event is the one of 3 Hebrew words translated into English as Nakedness ERVAH- nudity, lot. (espec. the pudenda) nakedness, shame, unclean.
If nakedness was to be a private event we would see in Leviticus 18 and 20 the word EYROM- nudity, nakedness. Or the word MAAR- nude place, pudenda, vacant space.
There is a curious word that also reveals a public manner and it is found in Leviticus 18:23 it is the word Stand (AMAD) This word is sandwiched in between, 'to serve, to minister to' and 'to confide in, to stand by, to defend' It is in the role of priestly duties. Here is the scripture- Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman STAND before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

With this information we must conclude that these two chapters of Leviticus are addressing a public religious event. We have no other writings detailing what went on in these worship services. We know that they had priests and priestesses. From archeology we confirmed the Bible's account of infant sacrifice. We know only that their rituals included clothing exchange between the sexes in keeping of the commandments of their deities. (Deut.22:5)

We find no evidence of God finding the lgbt community to be TOWEBAH.

In the New Testament we are taken to 1Corinthians 6:9 which reads- Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? "Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor Effeminate, nor Abusers of Themselves With Mankind......." The word that the Apostle Paul coined for these 'abusers is ARSENOKOITES. This word was not known in the Greek speaking world. It is a play off of the Leviticus passage 18:22. This word is a two-part word arseno-male, koites-bedder. "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind; it is TOWEBAH (abomination). This would not have been understood by the non-Jewish Christians. However, it would have been to the former Jews who were now Christian. The answer why Paul would have coined two words from a passage from the Law of Moses can be found by the word TOWEBAH. This is a ceremonial worship condemnation word. If the Apostle were referring to homosexual men, there was a word the Greeks used to refer to them. Same with homosexual women.
With the word Effeminate (MALAKOS) again we have a deliberate mistranslation. This word was used in writings before the 1st century to refer to males who through soft living, lost their masculinity. I will bring more on this (along with the sources) in my next affirmative. Also, the then current titles for the homosexual men and women that was at Paul's disposal to have been used in 1Cor.6;9

Romans 1:18-28 is often thought to be a condemnation of the lgbt community by God. Especially verses 26,27 "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use to that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet."
To accurately capture the scene that would be pictured in our minds of this section of scripture, we must remember that the pagan temples in the 1st century were very,very plentiful. Homosexuality was thought to be more noble than sex with a female. The only condemnation from the early church was that the Roman soldiers were being excessive by rounding up herds of young boys to have sex with. This was in writing by Justin Martyr.
Paul here, having been from Tarsus, would have been well schooled in Plato's works. I will in my next Affirmative, show the similarity between what Plato wrote concerning lust, and what Paul here wrote about the same in regards to the orgies he witnessed daily in the Greek communities.

As we can determine, the lgbt community does not fit the participants of Romans 1:18-28

In all these passages of scripture thought to be weapons against the lgbt community, if one is objective, it is clear that they are not.
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Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by TrenchWarfare737 3 years ago
TrenchWarfare737
Jesus cleared it all up, just read what He said without being a hater.
Posted by Sonofcharl 3 years ago
Sonofcharl
Are you being serious Debater2018?

The New Testament was written approximately 1900 years ago and the Old testament was put together some time in the first millennium B.C. Whereas the L.G.B.T. agenda is very much a present day concept. It is therefore highly unlikely that L.G.B.T issues would have been discussed in either the New or Old Testaments.

Me. I thought that an L.G.B.T. was a Classic British Sports Car.
Posted by luanism 3 years ago
luanism
I'm confused as well lol
Posted by 32doni32nido32 3 years ago
32doni32nido32
I knew about the mistranslations, but had never heard about the Sodom and Gomorrah being destroyed by an asteroid.

I'm not sure what you were trying to get at with the Romans passage though. It left me confused.
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