The Instigator
omar2345
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
W0LV3NBANE
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

New Vegas is the best fallout in the series

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/19/2019 Category: Games
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 943 times Debate No: 119959
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (0)

 

omar2345

Pro

Best: Positives outweighs the negatives (Postive or negatives can include: gameplay, Story, Mechanics etc)

What is a fallout game?
Most concerete thing I found that was true about all of them was "Fallout is a series of post-apocalyptic computer role-playing games"

I would like my opponent to start while also having a game in mind to compete.




W0LV3NBANE

Con

As you have mentioned, Defining a fallout game is hard, Due to the varied nature of the series. However, I beleive I have found a solution. If we can't define what a fallout game is, We can at least define what a fallout game is not. Which leads me to fallout 76. Wheter you beleive that game was mediocre of awful, The general consensus on the internet is that its not a great example of a fallout game. Here are some complaints.
1) It does not remotely resemble a RPG
2) Its a glitchy mess that's was rushed out the door
3) It ignores the lore of the series.

I feel new vegas hits these 3 points beat for beat.

1) It does not resemble a RPG
Alright, Fallout new vegas's gameplay is fun (when it works, More on that later). But and RPG? Rpg themselves have a lose definitions. Fallout New vegas in my opinon is fun shooter set in a relatively open world with RPG elements. This however, Is its own debatable subject.

2) Its a glitchy mess that was rushed out the door. Fallout new vegas was pitched, Developed and released in about two years. The development team had about several diffrent plans for the game, None of which came into fruition. Do to the timetable they were forced to release it in its current state. Since then, Multiple reports have come in of the game crashing, You can perform simple glitches to get infinite money and infinite XP, People frequently found their character stuck and unable to move, The list goes on.

3) Why does vault-tec have such little influence over the new vegas world? All we really get is a vault or two across the Mojave. To me at least, This takes away the feeling of the fallout series.

So what is the best fallout game? Personally, I'm split between 2 and 3. Although I think New Vegas is more fun, I personally beleive that fallout 2 is the most fallout fallout game. Im short on time so goodbye.
Debate Round No. 1
omar2345

Pro

I think I did make it clear here "I would like my opponent to start while also having a game in mind to compete. ". You did give 2 and 3 which are two games which is not a singular game. Hopefully you would give arguments for why that game is a better Fallout game in the next Round instead of stating why New Vegas isn't. Even if I grant you that New Vegas has those problems it still does not make your game the best.

Fallout New Vegas gives more customisation and rpg elements than any other.
Going by the first link provided. You do gain experiece by completing quests, Crafting and murdering which generates enough to level up assign levels to the player's preferred choices.

Granted New Vegas does not have clearly defined classes in the game but nor do any other in the franchise. The argument I will make is that the amount of customisation it gives to the player allows the player to choose many different pathways which all lead to different types of endings. The second link shows choices that the player has made which resulted in an effect. Note also that every single different NPC can be changed in another playthrough. Lets take Lily for example. You can either never complete the companion quest or choose from 3 different doses of medicine (Use it, Use it sparringly or don't use it all). This has in game effects which changes the way the character Lily speaks towards the player and the ending cutscence will show you what you chose. This is not mentioning the other NPC's that can determine a different outcome but would pick one and save others for later if I have mention it.

Haven't heard of a job system (allows the player to change classes or respec late in the game) and I am glad that New Vegas does not have it. I don't think Fallout 3 or 2 has it either so there is going to be no contention there.

New Vegas does allow the character to choose from different abilities depending on if they meet the stat requirements. Fallout 3 and 2 do the same and if Con has a contention like 2 is more meaningful or something like that than I will also address this.

New Vegas does have some form of (evolving attacks) but indirectly. Yes you damage does increase but it depends on the perk you gain and the enemy you are shooting. One perk which is the third link is the bug stomper. With 50 bugs killed you do more damage to them. From my knowledge Fallout 3 does not have that nor does Fallout 2 which is a positive for New Vegas. This is because rewarding the player for consectively killing the same enemy is good. Reason is it gives the player more damage and more of a feel that they are actually improving as they become more acustomed to the game. Bug stomper reinforces the players increase time and knowledge of killing enemies.

Equipment based progression is found throughout all the games and if Con has a contention then I would also state my side as well.

Limbs damage are a thing in 2, 3 and New Vegas which provides a status effect. Whether it be lowered perception or just slow walking speed. Will provide a comment if Con does wish to state 2 or 3 to be better in that regard same goes for status buffs which would be things like hats and glasses which increase the players perception if they have the right perks.

Karma is thing in all of the games and if Con has an argument then I will also give mine.

Since fallout is a role-playing game I will leave it at that and give more arguments later. I will also wait until the next Round to rebut since then we both have equal Rounds to rebut.

Source:
https://tvtropes. Org/pmwiki/pmwiki. Php/Main/RPGElements
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=E80uavRuhLQ
http://fallout. Wikia. Com/wiki/Bug_Stomper


W0LV3NBANE

Con

"I would like my opponent to start while also having a game in mind to compete. "
My sincerest apologies. There was intended to be more to my opening argument but I was forced to finish my argument prematurely. However, I do have a contender for the best Fallout game in the series. Due to the fact that I was unable to present my case in the previous argument I will present here. Fallout 2 is the best game in the franchise up until this point.

My first point is the sheer amount of replay-ability. What other game can play as a too stupid to talk child murderer and a chainsaw weilding scientoligist along with everything in between. And unlike some other rpgs, Your stats actually effect your character. Put only one point into intelligence? Congratulation! Your character is now a Neanderthal. This vast variety of customization provides the most replay-ability in the entire series. Slightly off topic, But I did not approve how fallout new vegas booted you out after completing the main story. In fallout 3 it made sense, Because spoilers.

My second point is the lore and worldbuilding. Fallout 2 has one of the most interesting worlds in any rpg. It also builds on the world of its predeccesor. Your character is a direct descendant of the first games character, Giving a sense of continuity to the series. Overall, How the game expands on its predecessor with more information on what remains of the United States Government was fantastic. It had unforgettable characters. The dialogue was incredible. New Vegas had incredible dialogue as well, I'm not trying to bash new vegas, But its amazing how fallout 2's dialogue still holds up today.

My third point is the setting. Fallout 2 had a phenomenal post apocalyptic setting, Back in the day that post apocalyptic settings weren't as popular (when even Nintendo has a post apocalyptic setting, You know there is a problem). It was also fairly varied. The strip in new vegas is basically just a remaster of Fallout 2's new reno. So much of new vegas was just desert.

Concerning your argument.
"Hopefully you would give arguments for why that game is a better Fallout game in the next Round instead of stating why New Vegas isn't. "
The resolution was that fallout new vegas was the best in the franchise. All I have to do is prove that new vegas is NOT the best game in the franchise. I don't technically have to pick any one game at all.

You also provided a lot of reasons you beleive that New Vegas qualifies as a RPG. Most of these are solid points that I cannot rebut. Perhaps I'm missing something, But you have not provided any evidence that proves fallout new vegas is BETTER then the others. Unfortunatly, None of your links worked. I was able to acsess the first one by searching it out, But the actual links themselves did not work. I will go off what you wrote. Your first point, You gain levels. You do that in all the other fallout games. I wasn't able to see all the possible different choices, But fallout 2 also had hundreds of meaninful choices. If you kill enough people, Other characters will fear you. As I said earlier if you make your intelligence too low your character devolves into a babbling fool that all the other characters can't really comprehend. Your one choice at the beginning to assign stats to other places results in thousands of lines of new dialogue you never would have gotten earlier.

The only thing you have presented that fallout 2 does not have is bug stomping. However, A similar perk called animal control can be gotten in fallout 3. Not important, Just a fun fact

In conclusion, You have only rebutted one of my earlier points, Have not proved that new vegas is the best game, And I spent too much time writing this out. I look forward to your response
Debate Round No. 2
omar2345

Pro

Okay. Guess I win. Would like to know why you conceded.
W0LV3NBANE

Con

Man the website is glitching out.
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@squeakly54n6

The world building is limited to the game it was. A isometric like strategy game. New Vegas is a 3D first and third person RPG.
New Vegas has more dialogue options.
More places to explore.
More customisation in terms of skills, Weapons, Armour etc.
New Vegas also improved on companions giving them a quest line and rewarding the player for completing it for a companion. Some vary depending on how you completed it.
It also has voice acting.
I can list more but New Vegas does have more options to have better world building.
I don't know too much about characters but personally I preferred, Caesar and the NCR then the Enclave. I liked Mr House more than the village you start off in. I could list DLC characters but I don't think it is fair since Fallout 2 did not have any expansions and I can't compare them to a Fallout 2 counterpart in terms of content.
Posted by squeakly54n6 3 years ago
squeakly54n6
While I do think that fallout new Vegas was fantastic, I do not think it was the best in the series. In my personal opinion fallout 1 and 2 had better world building and characters than any of the 3d fallout's. I also prefer turn based strategy games as opposed to first person shooters but that's just me.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@W0LV3NBANE

This is really annoying. Somehow when you posted your Round 3. It deleted mine then asked me for my Round 3 again which deleted your Round 3 and then for some reason this time both of our arguments went through.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
"I'm not sure.
My end is looking fine.
I conceded because I could not argue with your points. You proved to be the better debater. "
Look at what it says on my Round 3
Posted by W0LV3NBANE 3 years ago
W0LV3NBANE
I'm not sure.
My end is looking fine.
I conceded because I could not argue with your points. You proved to be the better debater.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@W0LV3NBANE

For some reason when you included your Round 3. My Round 3 was deleted and asked me to upload my Round 3 again.
Even though for you to add your Round 3 I need to add mine but for some reason it deleted mine, You somehow posted argument and then I had to post my Round 3 again.
What is this?
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@W0LV3NBANE

What happened to my argument?
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
"But I did not approve how fallout new vegas booted you out after completing the main story"
Finally realised what you meant here.
My response it is a good thing the game ending when it shows the ending. Reason it is not an ending if you can still doing stuff in the Mojave. For this reason I enjoy the game ending when ending starts to play. That is a much better ending than just exiting when you are done with it. By that time you would forget about the choices you made or too busy trying to do everything you missed.

Basically an ending is an ending. If the game still goes on it is not an ending.
Which is a reason why I disliked Fallout 4. You have completed the main story and yet the game has not ended. The only way to end it is to exit out. Only Fallout 1, 2, And New Vegas have ended the game when the ending cutscene starts. Fallout 3 does not count since Broken Steel DLC allows the player to continue after completing the main quest.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
We don't actually have equal Rounds to rebut. Forget what I said there as well.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
Forget my earlier comment.
The link is there it is just that the argument changed.
DDO realised we did not ruin your links by putting spaces in them so we are going to do it now.
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