The Instigator
Thiest_1998
Pro (for)
The Contender
Wizofoz
Con (against)

Noahs flood happened

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/3/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 1,116 times Debate No: 112269
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (40)
Votes (0)

 

Thiest_1998

Pro

Noahs flood happened and I have evidence that lines up with scripture if anyone believes they can refute it feel free to accept this challenge and start off by stating why you believe it didn't happen
Wizofoz

Con

If the flood happened, why have cultures with unbroken histories going back to before biblical times never heard of it?

Here is my friend AronRa on the subject-

https://youtu.be...

https://youtu.be...

https://youtu.be...
Debate Round No. 1
Thiest_1998

Pro

First point is that civilisations probably existed after the flood also I think the population could take a less than 150 years especially a small population a lot of what he says are assumptions for example he assume that the grow of a population is a constant also he likes to take info from websites and not the source which is the bible.

second video He was just talking about the supposed evolution of apes

third video I'm going to be totally honest with you I can't understand a what hes on about

I could show a video of a credited scientist show how the flood is a possibility or I can show you a documentary about the found ark and how it lines up with scripture short version
long version

I'll be looking forward to your response
Wizofoz

Con

Points on posted video- Turkey never "officially recognized" Noahs Ark, that is simply a falsehood. There is now no acknowledgement from ANY official body that any supposed find on Mt Ararat was the ark, and all so called evidence has been thoroughly debunked.

This a quote from Answers in Genesis- A creationist, apologetic site, regarding Ron Wyatt-

Are the claims true? If they are, such a staggeringly impressive list would mean that Ron Wyatt had been almost as miraculously assisted by God as the patriarch Moses. If, however, a careful examination of just one or two of these claims reveals them to be false, fanciful or fraudulent, the "divine leading" option evaporates, and it is clear that Christians are being seriously misled.[1]

So even other literalist Christians do not believe his claims.

Pro can "think" all he wants, but simple math shows that a population of six people, even if they bred at the maximum rate, as did their progeny, could not account for a fraction of the known world population in the years when know events (such as the building of the pyramids) occurred.

His claim is that "civilization occurred after the flood". That is a curious claim, as there is at least a thousand years of civilization recorded IN THE BIBLE previous to the flood.

Pro puts the flood at around 4000BC.

Civilizations existed at that time in China, South America ans Northern Africa. Cultures existed in just about every other part of the world, and left artifacts, paintings etc.

Pros contention is that all these civilizations were wiped out, then within a very small space of time, Noah s descendants ( having acquired the physical characteristics of the people who had previously inhabited those regions- paintings and statues of Chinese people from long before that period look- Chinese. Curious that Noahs descendants so quickly took ion those same characteristics), that they took up exactly the same culture as had been destroyed, and that no record or break in culture was noted.

This apparently happened in Australia, The Americas, Africa, Europe- It obviously and patently ridiculous.

Pro states we should respect the authority of the bible- the flood myth is perhaps the most stark example of why the bible fails in any way as a record of truth, as it clearly didn't happen.

Even as a allegory, it is an awful story of a tyrant commuting genocide out of rage- hardly an example to be emulated or worshiped,

A Global Flood would have left a myriad of different evidences. There would be clear Gene bottlenecks in species, a layer of unbelievable density of fossils in one thin layer, the extinction of many plant species (Noah didn't take two of every plant, did he?)- non of which exist.

It is a myth- it didn't happen.
Debate Round No. 2
Thiest_1998

Pro

"Points on posted video- Turkey never "officially recognized" Noahs Ark, that is simply a falsehood. There is now no acknowledgement from ANY official body that any supposed find on Mt Ararat was the ark, and all so called evidence has been thoroughly debunked" your words

My response

The Turkish government did acknowledge it Turgut "zal the Turkish prime minister at the time was right there in the video right next to Ron Wyatt in the video theres even a visitors centre next to the ark site that the Turkish government built also "how and who debunked it"?

This a quote from Answers in Genesis- A creationist, apologetic site, regarding Ron Wyatt (your words)

My response

Just because another creationist disagreed with it doesn't make it true not every creationist is going to agree with on every topic you have to consider their arguments with everyone elses e.g are their arguments consistent with the situation can it be debunked also if they said this where is the link to this post?

(Your words)
Are the claims true? If they are, such a staggeringly impressive list would mean that Ron Wyatt had been almost as miraculously assisted by God as the patriarch Moses. If, however, a careful examination of just one or two of these claims reveals them to be false, fanciful or fraudulent, the "divine leading" option evaporates, and it is clear that Christians are being seriously misled.[1]

My response

But wouldn't if they aren't what would be your response

(Your Words)

Pro can "think" all he wants, but simple math shows that a population of six people, even if they bred at the maximum rate, as did their progeny, could not account for a fraction of the known world population in the years when know events (such as the building of the pyramids) occurred.

My response

Actually 8 people also do the 'simple math' and show me that I'm wrong

( Your words)

His claim is that "civilization occurred after the flood". That is a curious claim, as there is at least a thousand years of civilization recorded IN THE BIBLE previous to the flood.

My response

Well restarted because everything had been previously destroyed, I don't remember saying there was no civilisation before the flood

(Your words)
Pro puts the flood at around 4000BC.

My response

4400BC Actually so that completely negates that argument btw I never said 4000 years.

(You said)

Pros contention is that all these civilizations were wiped out, then within a very small space of time, Noah s descendants ( having acquired the physical characteristics of the people who had previously inhabited those regions- paintings and statues of Chinese people from long before that period look- Chinese. Curious that Noahs descendants so quickly took ion those same characteristics), that they took up exactly the same culture as had been destroyed, and that no record or break in culture was noted.

My response

I never said that people started to speak different languages and gain different characteristics at the Tower of babel but also if you have an explanation for how there are so many different characteristics and languages I would like to hear it.

(You said)

Pro states we should respect the authority of the bible- the flood myth is perhaps the most stark example of why the bible fails in any way as a record of truth, as it clearly didn't happen

My response

I never said we should respect the authority of the bible and you claim it clearly never happened but yet there are so many fossils and petrified animals and trees all over the world in the most peculiar places for example petrified clams on top of mt everest

http://practicalapologetics.blogspot.com...

https://answersingenesis.org...

(You said)

Even as a allegory, it is an awful story of a tyrant commuting genocide out of rage- hardly an example to be emulated or worshiped.

My response

Yes he killed many people as do soldiers and executioners in USA but its the reasoning behind it and who they're doing it to the bible says
Genesis 6:5

And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

God destroyed a planet full of wickedness and as a side note I've observed nowadays when people do evil things alot of people say out loud they would love for them to be executed so in fairness he gave a dose of justice.

(You said)

A Global Flood would have left a myriad of different evidences. There would be clear Gene bottlenecks in species, a layer of unbelievable density of fossils in one thin layer, the extinction of many plant species (Noah didn't take two of every plant, did he?)- non of which exist.

My response

The fact that the fossils are layered speaks volumes itself for example when water is flowing through mud it automatically sets it into layers you can see this for yourself by getting a jar filling it with some dirt and some water shaking it up and you can see it automatically sets into layers its called stratification just because we can have bottle-neck genes doesn't mean animals also do.

Thank you for your response this round was so much fun I look forward to your next argument.
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
40 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by mosc 3 years ago
mosc
Prove that 10 flies can stand upon the head of a pin. This absurd declaration for proof only reveals the hubris of a fool. The idea that the Bible exists as a book of history, any brain dead zomby who buys this none sense - go by a bridge in the Sahara desert.
Posted by Thiest_1998 3 years ago
Thiest_1998
@ Im_Intelligent

To prove you're not a fence sitting athiest why don't you debate me?
Posted by Thiest_1998 3 years ago
Thiest_1998
@ Im_Intelligent

What evidence from 10,000 bc
Because China was the civilisation was in question
Posted by Thiest_1998 3 years ago
Thiest_1998
Because he loves his creation and doesn't want them to live a life full of wicked deeds but if they choose to rebel, there is a penalty for that they can choose to avoid it or accept because an Ark would give people a chance and time to repent unlike a spontaneous miracle
Posted by Thiest_1998 3 years ago
Thiest_1998
@ Im_Intelligent so because no peer review paper has been made on it makes i untrue even though it has a mountain of evidence backing it up, and no other country got involved probably because it happened in Turkey and probably because no other country was notified of the discovery.

Where's your proof that it didn't happen, I gave mine that it did

I don't know but do keep in mind that the boat was built before the flood and we have no idea what kind of technology they had access to also to keep in mind after the flood the whole world was destroyed so civilisation and technology took a hard reset.

Key word there estimates not exact numbers in this debate we talk facts things that have been proven not estimates.

Are you implying that these animals appeared in their habitat and what evidence would there be that they travelled?

Yes but the Methuselah tree isn't alive if it can't grow in height or leaves its not alive also
Genesis 7:21-22
21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

Trees have neither nostrils nor the breath of life.

It's in the ocean

Because the survived

Its possible I don't fully understand or can explain it
Posted by Im_Intelligent 3 years ago
Im_Intelligent
also since you are still using terms like "fence sitter atheist" that suggests you have barely bothered to read what i have typed.

"learn to love a little within your replies?" > this coming from the same person calling me and those alike "opinionated, bias, juvenile, over educated idiots" you hypocrite.
Posted by Im_Intelligent 3 years ago
Im_Intelligent
2far4u2CharlesDarwin

"Are you that bitter with hatred of all that think different to you"

im not filled with hatred, and it doesn't matter if i agree or disagree, he needs to provide sufficient evidence and justification that his claim is true.

also calling me bitter and hatred doesn't solve the following problems i listed with Noah's flood.
Posted by canis 3 years ago
canis
Remember your pills.. And start building a boat. We could have 9000000 mm of rain some day. it happend before... Amen...
Posted by 2far4u2CharlesDarwin 3 years ago
2far4u2CharlesDarwin
"Birds of a feather flock together"

When are you and all of these atheist fence-sitters that lean to the left or the right whenever it suites themselves going to learn to love a little within your replies? Are you that bitter with hatred of all that think different to you "birds of a feather flock together"? If all thought like you and your "Birds of a feather flock together" we would still be in the trees.

As I am just disappointed not hate filled and bitter as birds of a feather flock together still seem to be, is that the diseased mind of an atheist I have referred to in this kangaroo court of atheists as any religious individuals with any shred of comprehension soon realises that this no more than a slinging match upon the tree of monkeys.
Posted by Im_Intelligent 3 years ago
Im_Intelligent
and we have evidence of humans partaking in agricultural activity as early as 10,000 BC

and there are quite a bit more civilizations and cultures we can look at sir "so why focus on China, even if civilizations started popping up in china 4000 years ago, how is that proof of the ark? what evidence do you have that correlates to it having any relation to ark claims? or is just convenient for you to assume that.

evidence of Civilization appearing in China 4000 years ago is evidence of Civilization appearing in China 4000 years ago.

you still have to go the extra mile and provide evidence for how this relates to a global flood with insufficient evidence of ever happening, and if all you can provide is supposed findings of the ark to support the idea of a flood of this magnitude, especially as recent as 4400 years ago, than there would be a crap load more evidence than just a damn boat, even if we did find it.
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