The Instigator
Dr.Franklin
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
WrickItRalph
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

Normal Behavior by boys is discriminated in schools

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision - Required
1,000 Characters Remaining
The Voting Period Ends In
03days17hours07minutes09seconds
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/14/2019 Category: Education
Updated: 6 days ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 200 times Debate No: 120831
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (15)
Votes (1)

 

Dr.Franklin

Pro

My position is above. Good luck to my opponent.
WrickItRalph

Con

I reject your claim on the grounds that there is no "normal" behavior for a boy that couldn't also be normal for a girl. I will make my case on the premise that any behavior that is prohibited of a boy is also prohibited of a girl.

Your floor.
Debate Round No. 1
Dr.Franklin

Pro

Professor Michael Thompson observed, Girl behavior is the standard in school, While boys are treated like being a defected girl. Its showing. Boys are far less likely to go to college, Get much fewer honors and get pretty crappy grades. For example, Boys score lower on reading tests not because their dumb but because they're just boys. Boys prefer action and comic books. However the books today in school clearly do not interest boys. Boys who are forced to read stories like Little House On a Prairie aren't happy. A study conducted by Ralph Fletcher concluded that classrooms like to use The Confessional Poet. Only stories that are full of emotion and have deep poetry are praised but boys tend to write about action, A monster devouring a city and competitions. A third grader made a drawing of a pirate battle and the boy got in trouble, However the dad was astonished that the teacher got him in trouble.

Boys are 5x more likely to get expelled from PRESCHOOL. In grades K-12 boys account for 70% of suspensions. Hardly a week goes by and you hear a story about how boys being boys are suspended. Jonathan Welsh, Age 7 was suspended because he made a pretend gun out of a pop-tart. At recess boys should be able to bring their competitive spirit, But recess has been lost by 50% and games like red rover, Tag and dodgeball are not allowed.
WrickItRalph

Con

Not to sound glib, But your argument is based entirely off prejudice thinking.

"Girl behavior is the standard in school"

There is no such thing as girl behavior, Unless you count menstruation and child birth. Are you saying that schools are making boys menstruate and have babies?

"Boys prefer action and comic books. "

False. This is a sexist statement. Kids like what they like. Some girls like action and comic books.

"Boys who are forced to read stories like Little House On a Prairie aren't happy"

False and furthermore, I read that book as a kid and loved it. Pioneers are cool. Once again, This all comes down to the fact that you think there are male and female behaviors. It's false and it's making you think like a sexist.

"Only stories that are full of emotion and have deep poetry are praised but boys tend to write about action, "

More prejudice. Boys are allowed to feel emotion and boys write about emotional things all the time.

"Jonathan Welsh, Age 7 was suspended because he made a pretend gun out of a pop-tart. "

While I don't necessarily agree with this suspension, The fact is that they suspended him based on policy, Not his gender. It's not discrimination if the rules apply to everyone. Boys being suspended isn't evidence of discrimination. You said yourself that boys statistically get suspended more, So calling it discrimination is just a red herring.

"At recess boys should be able to bring their competitive spirit, "

So should girls and what even is your point here?

Now that I've shown the robust absurdity of my opponent's argument. I would just like to point out the topic is pertaining to discrimination. My opponents argument has only pointed to policies that he thinks are discriminatory, But he's using discrimination to arrive at these conclusions. If there is discrimination, Then he needs to point to more than just some policies, He needs to show that the policy or the people enforcing them are singling out boys specifically by gender and just because the boys happened to break a rule that also applied to girls.

your floor.
Debate Round No. 2
Dr.Franklin

Pro

"But your argument is based entirely off prejudice thinking. " oh here we go, Mr genius here going to tell me how im sexist.

"There is no such thing as girl behavior, "

What? There are clear physiological differences in boys and girls.

Ok, You are denying science and actual statistics. There are defined differences in what girls and boys like, AND THATS OK, Whats not ok is schools only caring to girls and what they like and their mindset. Girls and boys are different, ACCEPT THAT FACT.

"Based on policy"
The policy is against boys imagination.

Again, Its showing. Boys get lower grades, Less bound to go to college and get less honors. You didn't rebuttal my points, You just said that im sexist and im absurd, But they are real boys who are affected by this.
WrickItRalph

Con

You said " oh here we go, Mr genius here going to tell me how im sexist. "

Was this suppose to be a rebuttal? Your behavior meets the textbook definition of sexism. You're attributing certain behaviors and desires to people based of their gender, Instead of basing them on their individuality. If you want people to stop calling you sexist, Then stop being sexist.

You said "What? There are clear physiological differences in boys and girls"

Yes, Physiological, Aka, Their bodies. Their bodies have nothing to do with general behaviors. Any behavior that a boy displays could also be displayed by a girl. The policies enacted in schools are aimed towards negative behaviors. It doesn't matter which gender displays these behaviors. It's only discrimination of there's a double standard. A boy got in trouble for making a gun out of pop tart, But the school would punish the girl for the same thing, So it's not discrimination.

You said "You are denying science and actual statistics. There are defined differences in what girls and boys like"

I am not denying science. There is nothing in science that claims that boys and girls necessarily like different things. You're just spouting off your prejudices and claiming them as science.

You said "The policy is against boys imagination"

That's a bold assertion. Every boy has a different imagination, So you cannot make an objective statement concerning their imagination, Unless the policy actually states verbatim that it does as much, Which it doesn't.

You said "Again, Its showing. Boys get lower grades, Less bound to go to college and get less honors. "

So what? Boys get lower grades. That doesn't prove anything, You're not showing any correlation to the two, I rebutted this in my last response and yet you claim I haven't. If you want to assert this point, Then you have to give me either data or a logical argument between the correlation, And you've given me neither.

I just want to reiterate that we're talking about discrimination here. That means your feelings on the matter don't mean anything. You need to show that people are specifically setting a double standard and you have not shown that. The rules in schools apply equally to both genders, So it's not discrimination.

Your Floor.
Debate Round No. 3
Dr.Franklin

Pro

A study by a top professor concluded that yes, Girls and boys are different in many ways. Thats ok and saying that doesn't make you sexist. Also Physiological differences do not equal the body. Yes, Even though a girl can display some boys behavior, There brain is fundamentally different. How can you deny this? Boys and girls share some different interest and thats ok.

The Zero Tolerance Policy is the exact policy that are against boys. You say thats it a BOLD assertion, But how? Do boys share some different qualities of interest, Sure, But they have the same brain.

I gave you an example. Reading tests. Boys score lower because books commonly chosen by the schools are not interested in the eyes of boys. I did show examples of boys getting discriminated more, But you write it off as sexism and BOLD assertions.

German and French customs are different, Am I racist for saying that?
WrickItRalph

Con

You're just not getting it.

You said. "A study by a top professor concluded that yes, Girls and boys are different in many ways"

What study? You didn't link a source nor did you name the study. Anybody can just say that there's a study. Here, I'll do it right now just to show how absurd this is: "A study by a top professor concluded that Dr. Franklin is wrong" You see how silly this is? You didn't even try to make logic out of it. You just asserted it.

You said. "Also Physiological differences do not equal the body. "

Oh dear, Physiological MEANS pertaining to the body. Please look this word up before you keep using it the wrong way.

You said. "The Zero Tolerance Policy is the exact policy that are against boys. "

Once again, That's a bold assertion. The policies do not mention boys specifically and they only denote behaviors. Behaviors are not linked to genders. It's like you refuse to justify your claims.

You said "I gave you an example. Reading tests"

You're missing the point. I don't need proof of test scores. I need proof of discrimination being correlated to the test scores. There are a million reasons why there test scores could be lower. Including physiology for all we know. You don't get to claim it's from discrimination unless you rule out the other possibilities.

You said "German and French customs are different, Am I racist for saying that? "

Yes you are. Customs are not specific to a nationality. They're specific to groups of people regardless. It's not a French custom, It's a custom of SOME people in France. By attributing it to their national identity, You're being prejudice.

In closing. You simply did not provide enough evidence. You wanted to prove discrimination, And you made a bunch of claims, But you didn't connect any of the claims to discrimination and some of your claims didn't have justification. I believe that I have provided sufficient rebuttals and counterproofs to show that the policies are not related to genders so there simply isn't any correlation.

Good debate.
Debate Round No. 4
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by WrickItRalph 5 days ago
WrickItRalph
I'm not saying it to be insulting. You have a genuine problem with how you think about prejudice and I'm trying to point out the absurdity of it to help your mind grow.

Do me a favor. I want you to go look up the definition of prejudice. I then want you to really really think about your positions and, If you do, You will realize that your positions are prejudice.
Posted by WrickItRalph 5 days ago
WrickItRalph
No, You just don't understand prejudice well enough.
Posted by Dr.Franklin 5 days ago
Dr.Franklin
If you actually think im sexist, You are ridiculous
Posted by Dr.Franklin 5 days ago
Dr.Franklin
"The fact that you would cite a woman as an authority in an attempt to justify your logic is also sexist. "
I was using that to demonstrate that even women agree that women have different interests than boys.
Posted by WrickItRalph 5 days ago
WrickItRalph
@Franklin. Okay I will. If a woman shares your identical view on the subject, Then that woman is sexist. The fact that you would cite a woman as an authority in an attempt to justify your logic is also sexist.
Posted by Country-of-dummies 5 days ago
Country-of-dummies
Okay, I know this is going to sound pretty radical here, But bear with me. I actually agree with Dr. Franklin here in ways that were not mentioned in the debate. I know fighting is considered bad and against society's moral code, But back in the good-old-days, Boys fought each other, Instead of blowing each other's face off or slitting each other's throat. I personally think that fist fighting and wrestling each other is much better than becoming seriously violent, To the extreme of using a weapon. In the criminal justice field, That I am in, I talked to a cop who is the father of 3 boys. One of his boys had an issue at school with another boy. The cop's son did not defend himself, And was getting beaten up every day. Finally, The cop told his son, DEFEND yourself, And he will stop, But before you do, Give the brat a warning. Tell him that if he does not stop, You are going to knock the living daylights out of him. Long story short, The cop's kid knocked the daylights out of the brat, And it never happened again. The school went bonkers, But sometimes, A boy has to do what boy has to do. Schools do indeed want boys to act more like girls, Because girls are less violent. I understand what the schools are trying to do, But regardless what policies society puts in place. . . BOYS will be BOYS. Also, It is not sexist to say there is differences between boys and girls, I know that might be shocking, But it is true. STUPID SOCIETY is the one who tells people that they are wrong for being "male" or "female. " You can cover up your body parts all you want, But you are still a girl or a boy, There are only 2 options. (unless you are born bi-sexual or something like that. . . There are always one or two exceptions). But society has taken it upon themselves to firmly remove gender altogether. NOT WORKING SOCIETY. . . !
Posted by Dr.Franklin 5 days ago
Dr.Franklin
All of my information came from a woman so go call her sexist
Posted by WrickItRalph 6 days ago
WrickItRalph
@Leaning. Thanks for the vote. Your critiques led me to the conclusion that I should address cultural and psychological implications related with behavior in the future in addition to my current arguments. I see why that could put you in a tie position. I won't address them now, Because I want the debate to be organic. :)
Posted by Leaning 6 days ago
Leaning
-further more prove his argument that schools are actually discriminating against boys or this so called boyish behavior.

If you feel my vote was not explained enough, Just let me know and I'll add on to it. On a personal note I did like Little House on the Prairie, My family owned the series and a number of other books. As for school reading, Eh, Is annoying at times. I think that might be more due to language arts teachers being more tuned to 'fine 'arts let's say than being gender biased. It's also annoying to be 'forced to read something. I got Cs in school, Not because I'm a boy, But because I was lazy (I think). My eldest brother got all A's and was Valedictorian. Mainly because my parents made him study and because he was intelligent and tried himself.

I don't think that Pros argument is hopeless (Though I still disagree with it). But I do think he could improve the way he makes it. Some examples for instance could be schools that are separated into boys or girls schools. The way that teachers and students act is different. But even that can be argued against as culture or other reasons I'm thinking.
Posted by Dr.Franklin 1 week ago
Dr.Franklin
ok, These were just for boys because they score lower on tests and are discriminated more
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Leaning 6 days ago
Leaning
Dr.FranklinWrickItRalphTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Con makes some good points I think that boy or girl, people are still individuals. That it's more certain behaviors are disallowed in school for reason of school disliking the behavior, than disliking boys. Pro would have to prove first with his arguments that definitive boyish behavior exists. He does 'partially, which is why I changed my agree to tied. I don't agree that he successfully argued boys biological differences cause the amount of behavior change the school regulates though. But it does remind me that there 'are cultural differences between boys and girls. And 'some minor behavior ones. Pretty sure I've read somewhere that girls mature faster than boys or something. But that's not really enough for me to care or think that boys are disadvantaged. Nor is culture enough for me to think that girls cannot like pants or fights or action. Or boys wear dresses (Though culturally I'd find that a bit odd). Pro argument biggest weakness is need to first prove boy behavior exists and-