The Instigator
Pro (for)
Anonymous
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Sonofcharl
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

Old testament truth, New testament made up for love of money and power

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Sonofcharl
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/13/2019 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 519 times Debate No: 119873
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (1)

 

Pro

Why can we not get all different beliefs together to find out the truth, Example Jews, The Jews for Jesus, Catholics, J W, Christians, New Born Christians, Islamic, Etc. .
The reasons why I want us to debate without arguments is to see why mankind has gone so wrong why do we all believe so different. Example the Old testament teachers us about the spiritual God (The Creator) and how God tells his story from the beginning of time and how it will end, About pagan's, How we put up tree's and decorated them, We make statues and idols and yet we still do this.
If you go to Isaiah mostly there teaches us that there is no other god, God says he will not give his glory to another.
God servant (the Messiah as we know it) will come to bring back Jacob (Israel) we will become righteous, It will not be like when he took Moses by the hand out of Egypt out of bondage (slavery), The Messiah will be like Moses and from the root of Jesse, (King David) the Messiah will not open his mouth, He will not preach in the streets, You will not even know he is the Messiah only when you realize that he is the Messiah (God's servant) will you be ashamed of what we have done of how we have sinned against God wishes. The Messiah will stand as a banner for the people to bring back rightness not die for anyone else sins, We are all accountable for our own sins.
My questions or arguments to Jesus followers is if Jesus is the only son of God, Then we are all just wasting time and effort, Firstly Ephraim was God's first born.
Secondly: Jesus is not the Messiah, He did preach in the streets, He also said that he is He.
Thirdly: Jesus followers are claiming that he is a god, Why would God send himself down to earth, And get himself crucified and then pray to himself and ask why have you forsaken me it doesn't make any sense at all.
Fourthly: Jesus performed miracles, He walked on water, Made the blind see and lame man walk, Deaf hear. He feed a lot of people on a loaf of bread, He turned water into wine. My argument on this if God liked miracles surely he would have corrected the mistakes we made in the beginning oh let remember what happened when Eve gave the apple to Adam, (the tree of knowledge).
5. In Moses time God gave the commandment's to Moses and the law, The Bible states that we will become corrupted when Moses dies. Point take true, Noah was off the Ark properly and Moses wasn't down the mountain properly when mankind was creating another god, Moses time then sins of the fathers will fall on the third and fourth generation, But now if you go to Jeremiah 31, And you will see that you will die for your own sins. Also Bible states curse is the man that make flesh his strength was Jesus made of flesh? Jesus followers are saying that he died for my sins, I must say if that is true, Jesus is going straight to hell with no passing begin.
6. If Jesus followers are so right why is it not that you don't tear up the old testament and ignore the Original God's word.

I get cross when people tell me that Jesus is a god, They run my God down and say he killed all these people in the Old Testament, I merely believe God was telling he servants and trying to warn the that disaster is going to happen, It's like now today's life God I think given the scientist enough knowledge to tell people to leave, The people that stay behind and get killed its their problem don't you think?

I was raised a catholic, And I had to go to confession to a priest, Which in turn goes to the bishop, And then to the pope, I not sure if the pope ever got the message because he is meant to tell Jesus.
Now at my older age I realized that is all just all for money and power, On trying to find the truth, I myself almost walked away from God the Creator, Until I got knowledge of Daniel prophecy and understanding that this is not the anti Christ as been claimed to be, Daniel prophecy is Jesus.
This is the reason why I would like all different beliefs to see and we can discuss it in a proper manner, Not degrading anyone, Race, Sex any of mankind, Lets talk about it and see maybe I am seeing thing in a different light, Than you.
Now days I don't believe in a religion, But believe in OUR God, I do not go to a church to be lied to for the love of money, One talks about been communist i think Jesus law is communist.
As for the Jews that believe in God the Creator only, You are correct in that way, But please I am asking why don't you see the physical changes, And you also don't do your Passover in the correct manner, You take all leaven foods out your house and give it to the Rabbi, After the Passover you go buy it back from the Rabbi, What is the meaning of the Passover, The Bible even the Torah, Tells you that you must give all your leaven food to someone that does not believe in the Passover.
Well i can go on about a lot, But i think we need to start by seeing what is the truth and start returning back to God of Creations.
The Bible states that if we don't return to God the Creator, God will attach our coast lands, Bring fire that no man can put out, Make our water dry our fish stink,
I don't want to live like that and I am sure you don't want to.
The people that say God the Creator was cruel, Let me tell you that you are the cruel mankind that your creator made you and everything on this earth, And yet you walked away from God, Claiming another god, You insisted on having another god, I sure that's the reason why he sent your Jesus.
Only parent's that have disobeying children will register what i mean, We spend all our life trying to correct your children not to error, And walk the good path in life, And yet what do they do, They will do exactly the opposite. Has God not trying to teach us and wants to be proud of all his children, And yet what do we do the same as what our children do to us.
Sonofcharl

Con

Has Pro ever considered that perhaps humans created God in their own image, Rather than the opposite. Especially with regard to the popular Middle Eastern deities. After all, The Bible and it's derivatives were all written by humans and not written by gods.

Old testament, New Testament. Nonsense or truth? Who knows?
Archaic theory is what it is and all theories will eventually become archaic theories. Unless we can acquire unequivocal proof.

Proofless Indoctrination systems, Perpetuate belief in myth based theory and myth based theory is easy to understand. Tales of wise old men with beards who can magically make things happen are simple images that require limited intellect.
Whereas attempting to convey an understanding of the known complexities of universal law and structure to a mass audience with variable levels of intellect would be an impossible task. Especially as the target audience for indoctrination are the very young.

Pro was raised under the Catholic indoctrination system and I was not religiously indoctrinated and therein lies one difference between us. Pro's young brain was programmed with an archaic theory which they came to accept with a blind faith and without the need for real proof. I was taught to be open minded and not to accept things without question, Consequently my approach to theory and philosophy is as variable today as it always have been. Pro's approach to their God is as rigorous as it probably always has been.

Of course: Wealth and power go hand in hand with indoctrination systems, Whether they be religious systems or any other philosophically or theoretically based social system. The greater the target audience the greater the rewards.
Debate Round No. 1

Pro

To: W0LV3NBANE thanks for your comment I would like to say that I think you understand of what I am trying to say, I am merely trying to show that the Old Testament is proof of the truth, As what is written is happened and is happening. You see I do believe that Jesus is really although his name should be Immanuel, Not sure of how they came to the name of Jesus. With great persistence, I got to understanding of my wisdom, I am not trying at all to argue all I am trying to see is why is it not that we should all believe the same. I am aware that we will all see things in a difference point of view. I would like to ask questions and would like your honest opinion, You see someone has commented on properly how I was raised as a catholic, And didn't know any better, We lived to a system. This is not about the Catholics or any other religion, So if you are prepared to debate, Yes would like to start off with Daniel firstly, As when I understood Daniel, I re-read the Bible and it's now starts making sense.
Sonofcharl

Con

You say this is not about religion. So what is it all about?
And Jesus and Immanuel were not any ones name, But corruptions of the Hebrew and clearly two separate ideas.
Pro themselves, Attempts to re-interpret the biblical myth and further corrupt the original Hebrew tales.

The New Testament was a continuation of the Old Testament tradition of mixing real people, Places and events with religious pseudo scientific theory.
So why does Pro think that one should be any more believable than the other?

Yes: The biblical tales make sense. In so much as they are what they are. Inaccurate, Naive, Archaic assumptions.
The human race as since moved on somewhat in their understanding of the Universe.
So why do people like Pro continue to wallow in the past mythologies? Because they have been conditioned to do so.

And why do we continue to indoctrinate ourselves with these false realities? Because as Pro themselves admits there is still tremendous wealth and power to be gained from doing so.

And I understood Daniel, But I was able to distinguish fact from fiction.
Debate Round No. 2

Pro

Hi, Just to say its no use to argue or stating ones opinion or even trying to see if people can try and see what the truth can be.
So I am going to state this, God the Creator is real, Clearly you have never gone for a walk in the mountains, Or gone to the sea, And seen that amazing creation that no mankind can create. People just believe in garbage and still pay for the lies and deception you been told.
lets get to the Scientist etc. This is bull dust, Man has never been to the moon, You pay to see a rock for the earth (who is making money? )
There is no such thing as Dinosaurs, Its man made bones that are put together, To the liking of ones mad mind. And again you pay to go and see it.
Bushman painting, Well that another story, If you had painting on a wall and it rain continually surely it will wear off, How is the overhangs formed from a mountain, And again you pay to see it plus you must have a guide so that they can see if you going to test if its really. Who so clear now?
Global warming is the biggest load of rubbish been told, Scientist tell you that you are destroying the earth by plastic etc. . Why the Hell do you make the plastic re-cycle etc? . And you want to know why people are so sickly now days, You are putting all your terrible chemical in the re-cycling, From a major big plastic tank or plastic bottles you re-cycle the items into the packaging for where your food is storied, Germs germs
To stay on the Global warming if we all did what the world leaders want us to do, Please world leaders you stop sending out rockets, And fighting your fellow friends, Why don't you as world leaders get into a boxing ring and fight it out, Whoever still standing must rule, You kill off your country fellow men that give you your bread and butter.
If Donald Trump can say that he doesn't believe that man went to the moon and now sending a man to the moon to see if there was a man on the moon, Well doesn't that explain everything.
I not a fan of Donald Trump, I think he is a man of war, But I agree with him about global warming, When Hurricane Michael hit, What did he say, No mankind can do this. Well the Man is correct, Give the Man a Bells.
Volcano erupts in Hawaii, Scientist can't get their head over this, (Is the volcano's the fire that no man can quench? )

So to the people who don't believe that The God of creations exist, Clearly you just been mis-lead by Christianity or Jesus followers, And also Scientist bull dust. There is no such thing as the big bang theory as American tell you.
Question to the American: Whats has happened to your Aliens that been guarded by FBI, CIA etc. . ? Or is this also a lie?
The FBI could not even catch a 17 year old children from killing children at a school and was informed of this how the hell are you guys going to capture an Alien?
To the people who really believe that Jesus has died for your sins, That's because you rather pay your priest or preacher to lie to you, You just too damn lazy to pick up your Bible and read for yourself, You need to get understanding of your wisdom, No need to go to any church and you not meant to walk around preaching. Question for Jesus people: You say that Jesus died for your sins, Is this the reason why you are so wicked and evil? I actually feel for Jesus he going to Hell a trillion time over for your uneducated minds. The preacher's of Jesus how dare you tell your money giving fellow poor people, That My God was wrong, I hope that you will all get your day at judgement.
To The Jews, The Jews for God of creation: Start correcting the errors of our for fathers, Stop doing things in vain, God is watching all of us.
To the Jews for Jesus, It does tell us in Daniel, That when the Holy people for by the slain, That's when we know we at the bitter end. I was very upset when I heard that you have Jews for Jesus, I must have missed out on 30 years of my life.
To the Jesus followers: Jesus changed the time, Jesus changed the Holy covenant, He had no desire for woman. He has expelled himself above the God of Creations. To the NON BELIEVERS THIS IS IN DANIEL. Look it up nana's.
When woman encircle men, When you dig up the bones of your kings and put it on the face of the earth for the birds to eat. (is this not whats happening? )

I am not going to even try and debate with people without knowledge. Its like is saw a sign that Albert Einstein has meant to say, Better a great Imagination than knowledge, Well I guess he didn't have must knowledge, Was He really that intelligent?

Anyway this is what is real to me, Their is ONLY ONE GOD the Creator, I think he sent Jesus to earth because you all insisted on another god, , I am trying to remember the things of the old, I personally believe that The Old Testament was written for Me. I often think of why nobody else cannot see it, But then realized people are gullible and prefer to believe in lies and pay for lies.

Well I do hope that MY GOD comes soon for Judgement day, Because this is beyond mankind.

If anyone wants to debate in a proper manner will do so, Otherwise not interested we all entitled to our own opinions, And I really don't like it when someone tells me that their is no God.

Just to say this: There is three country that are going to fall very hard soon, It's already starting USA, France and UK
Sonofcharl

Con

My dear Pro.

Gullible is as gullible does and hope is uncertainty.

And I am simply saying that there might or might not be a God. Because I have no way of proving the unproveable.

Blind faith in archaic man made mythology, Is what it is.

Pro is as selectively certain of their beliefs as the are selectively uncertain.
I would suggest that Pro is actually not as steadfast in their knowledge as the would care to admit.

If there is a God and God is all. Then surely God is all sensible.

Amen.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Akhenaten 2 years ago
Akhenaten
All religion is just an avenue of control and power. Thus, Both Old and new testaments are both equally foul books.
Posted by W0LV3NBANE 3 years ago
W0LV3NBANE
Since the oppoment does not seem to want to debate that the new testament is flawed but rather all testaments are flawed, If you want a proper debate on the topic you suggested I find this a interesting subject and would like to debate it with you.
Posted by AmericanDebator1776 3 years ago
AmericanDebator1776
My biblical knowledge is very lacking in comparison to yours so I feel I will not take on such a debate but the old testament seems to be one of a very conservative nature as it speaks of how woman should not be the authority of man, How homosexuals are wrong and how an eye for an eye is a philosophy of good but it seems to be this message is merely one of hate in many aspects. As Gandhi said "an eye for an eye only makes the whole world go blind. "
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
AnonymousSonofcharlTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro did not rebut Con's arguments instead dismisses them. Unfair on Con and bad conduct in general. It was a debate about the old testament being truth. Con was saying it wasn't. Pro disregarded it and went to addressing people in the comment section and not even bother rebutting. My favourite argument by Con: "Because I have no way of proving the unproveable."

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