The Instigator
Leaning
Pro (for)
The Contender
chrixtian
Con (against)

Patriotism

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/23/2021 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 179 times Debate No: 127682
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (0)
Votes (0)

 

Leaning

Pro

I assert,
Humans have a tendency to live in groups, Societies, Clumps.
I reason,
It seems to me common sense, To advocate valuing and working towards the 'good of the group to which one belongs.
Seems to me common sense that a number of people would 'value, Those they see as 'their people.

I'd argue that in such group identity, Many rules of game theory an individual might apply to themselves, Apply similarly.
For example, Living by respecting other groups, Helping them when one can, Out of the expectation of reciprocity.
But 'keeping what one views as their own, Not being taken advantage of.
chrixtian

Con

I agree in part, That being that tribalism is the biggest reason for our success as a species. I heard once that "our ability to work together is what separates us from other animals". I think it's intrinsic to our very core. That being said I've lost faith in our ability to work together as a collective species. I feel today we are far more isolated & alienated from ourselves and those around us. I feel we've lost touch with our roots (Particularly in western & capitalistic societies). Mind you I can't define what exactly those "roots" are. I feel tribalism is rooted within us, I feel it's part of what makes us human. I think it boils down to trust. If I don't trust the guy next to me then I can't work towards the same goal as him/her.
Debate Round No. 1
Leaning

Pro

Sure, I'd agree that tribalism is well fit to humans, Maybe just well a fit to social animals.
Wolves hunting together, Birds of a feather flying together, Pods of whales swimming together.

'Just against nature and dumb animals, Tribalism has value.
Has value in building trust and trade for resources far off.

There was a theory, Suggested in the 1990's called Dunbars Number, Which suggested a 'limit, To the number of people we can maintain a stable social relationship with,
Thus to my mind, Explaining people's attachment to 'other identifiers. For example traditions, Political methods, Values.

I'll admit a 'problem, When we attach ourselves so strongly to other people and certain values, Is that human 'greed occurs.
Plunder, So to speak.
Easily seen in individual humans we call criminals,
Often 'justified in history with groups, But maybe we can outgrow that in time. Sure are a lot of laws against unjust wars, Still working on it though.

Another problem is conflict of values, But if people can agree on more than they disagree with, Or agree to let each others tribes values stay in their own lane. 'Also workable I'd argue.

I'd argue that patriotism, Tribalism helps to fulfill human needs. Specifically,
Maslow's hierarchy of needs
Physiological
Safety
Belongingness and Love
Esteem
Self-actualization

Not much to mind about sports fans, School pride, Territorialism, Patriotism to a country, I'd argue.
So long as one isn't rioting at the stadium or assaulting another country for greed.

Sources, Just Google Wikipedia for Dunbar's Number or Maslow's Hierarchy.

You say,
You've "lost faith in our ability to work together as a collective species. "
And "feel today we are far more isolated & alienated from ourselves and those around us"

But seems to me that there's 'slightly less war and advantage taking in the world today.
Not as 'much colonialism, More trade between countries.
I agree the internet might have an isolating effect on a person and their immediate real life community.
That 'maybe, Nihilism and loss of traditions might become an issue. But also maybe we create new traditions and values.
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Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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