The Instigator
Smooosh
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
anti_ethnocentric
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

People who get home loans are welfare babies!

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/24/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,164 times Debate No: 116697
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (26)
Votes (0)

 

Smooosh

Pro

Please apply in the comments.
anti_ethnocentric

Con

I would like to first off thank my opponent for granting me the opportunity to debate this topic. As a homeowner for over 20 years I find my opponents view a belittling of the millions of Americans across our great Nation who with hard work and devotion pursue ownership of a home. I will incinerate with the least amount of time and argumentation my opponent preposterous stance.
Debate Round No. 1
Smooosh

Pro

https://en. M. Wikipedia. Org/wiki/Mortgage_industry_of_the_United_States. The US "mortgage industry" is not a legitimate private business endeavor, It requires government assistance for it to work. Our commitment to promote home ownership is directly tied to our ever accumulating national debt. Home loans are not a risky investment, They're a BAD investment. It doesn't make sense for a private lender to tie up hundreds of thousands of dollars for thirty years, Only to get back chump change. Before the stock market crash in 1929, Banks were weary about home loans. Most home loans were 3 to 7 year loans, Which made it very difficult to fit the criteria to be qualified for a home loan. Back then, Homeowner loan recipients just paid the minimum balance in the hope that they could save up enough money to make the final payment which was a large sum because all the interest had accrued up till then. It was known as the "bullet payment". After the crash of '29 (which, One could argue was caused by a housing bubble), Privately owned banks ceased to lend for homeowners. In an effort to promote home ownership, The FDR administration created government programs to help private banks be competitive in the housing market (Finnie Mea, Fannie Mae, And Freddie Mac). This initiative was part of FDRs new deal, Or "alphabet soup" agenda.

When you receive a home loan today, The federal government steps in and gives the bank the amount of your loan, So the bank will have the equity to continue making other loans, But they make the banks liable for delinquent loans. For the federal government to be able to raise the revenue to do that, They sell bonds. It's a common misconception to think that the US debt to China is caused by a trade deficit, But this is not true. Although we do have a trade deficit with China, This does not cause our ever accumulating national debt, It just means the US imports more goods than it exports. Our national debt to China, And any other foreign country, And our own federal government, Is in the form of bonds. Https://www. Thebalance. Com/u-s-debt-to-china-how-much-does-it-own-3306355. Our commitment to promote home ownership causes our national debt to increase.

In 2007 the housing bubble burst and people with homeloans were "under water". This means that they were paying more for their monthly payments than what their house was worth. Jobs were lost all around the country which exacerbated the situation which in turn, Caused more people to become delinquent with their loans. It came to a point where the federal government had to begin to pardon people for not being able to make their payments. The housing crises was directly caused by our artificial housing market, And their is no garauntee that it won't happen again. It is my firm belief that their should be NO housing market. If privately owned banks don't want to make loans without government assistance, Than that's not my problem. If homeownership ceases to exist, Except for the those who can afford a home outright, Than so be it. I challenge my opponent to prove that the constitution guarantees homeloans for the middle class, Or middle class wanabees. The US is the only country on earth that subsidizes housing for the middle class. It has only proven to be a burden on taxpayers and has caused an economic meltdown (it's probably caused more than one economic meltdown).

The homeloan initiatives started by the FDR administration actually causes housing prices to increase. The demand for homeownership goes up when more people are able to obtain a loan for a home. An increase in demand, Causes an increase in price. If the homeownership initiatives were cut from the budget and people were no longer able to get loans, The demand for homes would decrease, Which would cause a drastic drop in home prices. Cutting those programs would cause taxes to go down. It would also curb urban sprawl. As an American taxpayer, I consider the burden of homeloan subsidies to be even less ethical than welfare programs for the disabled because disabled citizens actually need government assistance, But nobody needs a house to survive, You can get by with an apartment like the rest of us!

This is my opponents first debate on this site, And I thank him for accepting my debate as his first challenge. Good luck to you
anti_ethnocentric

Con

Thanks Smooosh for your prompt response and for pointing out a historical succession of events that have transpired
within the mortgage industry. I would like to get back to the topic of " People who get home loans are welfare babies " If we may.
Let's start by pointing two simple steps to a mortgage loan process. ( This process isn't Rocket Science )
1. Apply for a Mortgage. A few things have changed since the real estate meltdown a few years ago. For purchase transactions, Real estate agents will first want to know if you can get a loan. In the old days, Financial institutions were doling out money to anyone with a heartbeat. Unfortunately, Soft lending standards helped fuel an eventual rash of foreclosures. Suffice it to say, Conditions on the ground have changed since then. Today, The best way to approach a real estate agent is with a lender pre-approval in hand. It shows that you"re ready and able to buy.
Employment
Name of current employer, Phone and street address
Length of time at current employer
Position/title
Salary including overtime, Bonuses or commissions
Income
Two years of W-2s
Profit & Loss statement if self-employed
Pensions, Social Security
Child support
Alimony
Assets
Bank accounts (savings, Checking, Brokerage accounts)
Real property
Investments (stocks, Bonds, Retirement accounts)
Proceeds from sale of current home
Gifted funds from relatives (e. G. Down payment gift for FHA loan)
2. House shopping. Most likely you have a wife or a girl friend. They usually handle this aspect. If you live in an apartment most likely you don't have neither one in which case you shouldn't even be bothered with owning a home.
There are programs available through certain organizations that provide assistance to 1st home buyers, Veterans and
certain disadvantaged groups. Candidates who apply undergo a series of seminars and eligibility process before being approved. At the end of it all being said and done. The mortgagor is responsible for all monthly payments. No Agency in Government, Religious, Political, Secret society nor Interplanetary is going to pay your mortgage. Thus my point people who get home loans aren't Welfare Babies.
Debate Round No. 2
Smooosh

Pro

I think my opponent is trying to make the case that since nobody will help you pay your home loan, Then that means you're not a welfare baby. I remain unconvinced. Does my opponent deny that most home loans since the great depression are made available through government subsidies? These loans require some form of public investment. Home loans can be streched out over a 30 or even 40 year period as opposed to the 3 to 7 years that private banks used to do, This is made possible by other peoples investment in your loan, Including taxpayer investment. Those who meet the criteria to be qualified for a home loan can do so because of these programs, Those who don't meet the requirements for a home loan still will have some of their taxes taken to help fund programs that they themselves cannot benefit from. Just as someone who does not meet the criteria for welfare, They will still have some taxes taken away to fund a government program that does not benefit them.

Let talk about these stringent requirements that are needed to secure a home loan. Just a couple months ago, Congress eased banking laws that were put in place just after the housing bubble burst (Oh how easily we forget the lessons of the past). Https://www. Wsj. Com/articles/how-congress-rolled-back-banking-rules-in-a-rare-bipartisan-deal-1527030512. It happened in 87, It happened in 07, Now the pendulum has turned back toward easing banking loan rules, And that's the first domino in line to fall, Leading us on a path to more economic hardship. Before those crashes, Anybody with a face could get a loan. Who's to say that banks will not continue to prod lawmakers to convince them to roll back bank lending rules even more? After the next market crash, Who's to say those banks won't tuck their tails between their legs and give congress the poor puppy dog eyes and say, We need a bailout? I think my opponent was trying to elude to the fact that home loans aren't so easy to get because certain requirements are needed. I find that argument to be a smidge complacent. Maybe right now it's difficult, But as history has shown, Lending rules are not anchored. Just sit back and watch how much easier these loans will become to get, And be horrified at how quickly everyone will forget the lessons of the past.

The US has an excellent credit rating. US bonds are considered to be a solid investment. If we don't keep our credit intact, Taxes will soar. Using our system of bonds wisely is of utmost importance. Investment in our infrastructure by selling bonds is a very good idea because interest can be made, That interest eases the amount of money taxpayers must spend to invest in things we need to invest in, I. E. Infrastructure, Our education system, And healthcare. A lower credit rating will permeate negatively in every aspect of public interest, And put added economic stress on all taxpayers. Our commitment to subsidize home loans puts an added burden on our credit rating.

I am happy to hear that my opponent is doing well with his pursuit to own a home, But one thing we've learned in the last stock market crash was that nobodies jobs are truly secure during an economic downturn. Leave us not forget that in the few years that followed the housing market crises, The idea of a recession proof business was laughable. We all want to know that our jobs are secure, But we can't always count on that. When jobs are being lost up and down the board, People are going to miss payments on their home loans, It's inevitable. It doesn't make them bad people, And they can't necessarily be blamed, But sometimes it can't be helped. When our commitment to pay out on the bonds that the US has sold can't be met, Taxes will either go up to try and pay those bonds, Or taxes will go up because we can't rely on using bonds for public investment. During economic strife, The last thing we wanna hear is, It's gonna get worse because taxes are going up.

The economic stress that subsidized home loans put on taxpayers, Our credit rating, And our general public interest is not sustainable. People who get home loans ARE welfare babies!
anti_ethnocentric

Con

Below is a statement made by my opponent ; such statement is located in the comment section of this debate. "anti_ethnocentric, I will send you the challenge. You will see it in your profile, Just accept it. To clarify what I mean by "welfare baby", It's someone who is using government assistance to buy thier house. I mean no disrespect to anyone who has a home loan, As I have many friends who've done that. I also grew up on welfare, So technically, I am a welfare baby. The point of this debate, Is to shed light on where our national debt really comes from! . The point of this debate, Is to shed light on where our national debt really comes from! ".
As you are all aware my Opponent created this debate " People who get home loans are welfare babies! ". . .
My closing remarks. My opponent a self declared Welfare recipient, Who most likely have a Welfare mind set on Economics. Want to put the blame of our National debt on Individuals who apply for Home Loans. Any 3rd grader knows too well that National Debt is "The debt of the government; the amount of borrowing by the government to meet expenditures exceeding tax revenues. ".
I'm not going to give a 10, 000 word Economic Decalogue. But would like to just close by stating " People who get Home Loans are not Welfare Babies " you section 8 suck up leach!
Debate Round No. 3
26 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by anti_ethnocentric 3 years ago
anti_ethnocentric
HaydenCR I already did
Posted by HaydenCR 3 years ago
HaydenCR
Aye @anti-ethnocentric, Reply to my proposal
Posted by anti_ethnocentric 3 years ago
anti_ethnocentric
Reading is not the issue is your lack of coherence. Do you fact check the content of what you copy before you paste it? Do you at least have the ability of reading a 10 page article and summarizing it? You compromise your intellectual integrity by not doing so.
Posted by Smooosh 3 years ago
Smooosh
Sorry if my economics confuse you, Try reading it slower.
Posted by Smooosh 3 years ago
Smooosh
My bad. It seems the link I posted in the second paragraph isn't highlighted. Oooooooooooooopssss.
Posted by anti_ethnocentric 3 years ago
anti_ethnocentric
Smooosh I'm waiting on your response . I would like to hear your rhetorical argumentation on defending your views. I hope that in the process you recognize the futility of your belief/opinion/view/ .
Posted by canis 3 years ago
canis
Well..Never. And then ask the person on a program..
90 % of the populations welfare depends on trickle, (drippel) down to have progress. 10% of the populations welfare depends on minimum trickle down.
Posted by canis 3 years ago
canis
When was the upper 10 (5) % hurt without welfare programs ?
Posted by Smooosh 3 years ago
Smooosh
I agree with you canis, that the US has become a welfare state. I disagree that without welafare programs, the lower 90% would be hurt.
No votes have been placed for this debate.

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