The Instigator
YeshuaBought
Pro (for)
The Contender
Merdeci
Con (against)

Please watch: Is Yeshua/Jesus the God of the Old Testament?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/13/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 420 times Debate No: 113857
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

Merdeci

Con

First of all, I would like my opponent to give her own arguments as to why Jesus is the God of the OT. Or she can type the arguments from the video put forth.


I shall argue that Jesus is not the God of the OT, in fact Jesus never directly claimed to be God. I challenge my opponent to give me one quote from Jesus that says otherwise. Not only did Jesus never claim to be God, these following three sayings of Jesus will clearly show that Jesus was not the God of the Bible at all.


1. Matthew 24:36
'No one knows about that day or hour, not even the Son, but the Father only.'

Here Jesus makes a distinction between what he knows and what the Father knows.

2. John 5:30 By myself, I can do nothing: I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who has sent me.

Jesus says, “by myself, I can do nothing.” This doesn't sound like a God to me.

3. John 14:28

The Father is greater than I.

Another strong statement that proves that Jesus is not God.


Another 90 verses of Jesus that clearly proves he is not God can be shown here: http://www.thedeenshow.com...
Debate Round No. 1
YeshuaBought

Pro

That was my introductory evidence, ddid you watch? I have to prove my claims. I am visually disabled, so textual evidence hurts my eyes, but for you, I find some. This: https://www.biblegateway.com...
and this: https://www.biblegateway.com... are prophetic depictions of the suffering God in human flesh. John 8:58: 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
"I am" comes from the Greek ego ami from the hebrew YHWH. It is the name of God. When Jesus said "I AM He" to those there to arrest Him, they hit the ground. Let's look at John 1: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. 19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? 20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. 21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. 22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? 23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. 24 And they which were sent were of the Pharisees. 25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet? 26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; 27 he it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe"s latchet I am not worthy to unloose. 28 These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing. 29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. 30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me. 31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God. 35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples; 36 and looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God! 37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus. 38 Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou? 39 He saith unto them, Come and see. They came and saw where he dwelt, and abode with him that day: for it was about the tenth hour. 40 One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter"s brother. 41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ. 42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone. 43 The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee, and findeth Philip, and saith unto him, Follow me. 44 Now Philip was of Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter. 45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph. 46 And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see. 47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! 48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee. 49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel. 50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these. 51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
I know I used New Testament evidence, but wait: https://www.biblegateway.com...
Merdeci

Con

My opponent gave some quotes from the bible which apparently proves Jesus is the God of the Bible. They are misunderstood and I shall refute them. Furthermore, my opponent has yet not refuted any of my quotes which clearly show that Jesus was not God, please keep this in mind.


John 8:58: 58

My opponent argue that this verse states that Jesus said he was the “I am” (i.e., the Yahweh of the Old Testament), so he must be God. That argument is not correct. Saying “I am” does not make a person God. C. K. Barrett writes:

'Ego eimi [“I am”] does not identify Jesus with God, but it does draw attention to him in the strongest possible terms. “I am the one—the one you must look at, and listen to, if you would know God.”

Furthermore, the phrase “I am” occurs many other times in the New Testament (Mark 13:6; Luke 21:8; John 13:19; 18:5, 6 and 8.)


John 1: 1

My opponent quoted a long verse, from John 1: 1 to 1: 51. First of all, this is not Jesus speaking at all. So how does this verse prove the divinity of Jesus, my opponent does not explain that. John 1:1 does not prove anything, it is not Jesus speaking, and the Gospel of John itself shows Jesus is not God from the very words of Jesus himself.
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Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by dukeofpanda 3 years ago
dukeofpanda
I agree with MesserMessesUpEverything completely about what you have done.

If you'd like I'd still debate you, but I'm not going to watch the video and instead I would just give an opening argument why you are wrong.

You can use arguments from the video, but I'd like if you could type them up, otherwise it seems like you are trying to skirt the character limit of the debate.
Posted by MesserMessesUpEverything 3 years ago
MesserMessesUpEverything
You want someone to take an hour out of their day to try and summarize "your" augment from a video, then from their own? Why not make it not only easier for your opponent but also the voters and summarize your point? No one is going to spend that much time, voter or not. It just seems lazy to post an hour long video and say, "Here is my augment."
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