The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
EJR925
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Proof that the god of the bible DOES NOT EXIST unless you believe in pure hate and evil

Do you like this debate?NoYes-1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/28/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,207 times Debate No: 118744
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (48)
Votes (0)

 

backwardseden

Pro

Well it happened again folks. . . Just a few hours ago a deranged lunatic in Pittsburg, Pa went on a killing spree in a jewish synagog and murdered 11 with his water pistol. If the god of the bible is kind, Caring and loving, In which he is clearly not, He would have ---never--- created this person Robert Bowers, 46, Much less to yell "All Jews must die! " before opening fire and thus murder the innocent. Isn't this a wonderful country we live in?

Don't even think about bringing in the idiotic "free will" issue in because if the christian god exists, In which there is 0% proof that he does, He gives the power, The free will every single time, No exceptions, None, To the evildoer for the first swing of the bat and the victims are ---always--- are made to suffer under the bile of the thumbscrew.

Even worse this so-called neanderthal god must love to watch those that will grieve for the rest of their lives over this and other incidents like these that keep recurring, Just as god must want it to be. If not, Then he'd change it. Nah this sniveling wetback god who once again in which nobody can prove exists clearly loves suffering and pain.

Prove that the christian god is worthy of ANYTHING other than the horrific. Nonintelligent responses will rightly be nullified, Insults will perhaps begin and this debate will be over.
dsjpk5 will not be allowed to vote in the voting process.
EJR925

Con

I will be taking the position that it is highly probable that the Christian God exists. Pro seems to stand on the points of evil, Suffering etc. Which is a common force to drive people away or against theism (which is understandable until examining evidence and/or reasons). I will acknowledge that I am not capable of answering ALL questions neither will my opponent because of our limited knowledge. But I will do the best I can. Due to the limits of the debate standards (I realize you have the cap of characters usage but the website doesn't allow more which prevents me from putting information on here, Well at least a lot). I will give evidential arguments for a theistic God, New Testament, And Jesus Christ because I am a Christian. The burden of proof is on me to defend Christianity. The burden of proof of pro is to prove that it is utterly impossible for God to exist and/or Christianity to be true.

My case for God: Leibnizian Cosmological Argument
PREMISE 1: Anything that exists has an explanation of its existence, Either in the necessity of its own nature or in an external explanation [a version of PSR]. If we deny that everything which exists has an explanation then it would undermine the notion of science. This premise shouldn"t be very controversial.
PREMISE 2: The universe has an explanation for its existence, And that explanation is grounded in a necessary being. For the universe to be necessary it must be: eternal (lasting forever, Cannot fail to exist) and changeless (be as it is in all possible worlds)
The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle could see that different measurements on particles could have been performed by an observer resulting in different outcomes. This has been confirmed by experiments in 2011 by Anton Zeilinger, Quantum physicist (won the Wolf Prize in Physics in 2010 & Inaugural Isaac Newton Medal of the Institute of Physics in 2008). He and his team used the Kochen-Specker Theorem, Which shows the outcome obtained depends upon the context at that time and cannot be predicted prior;Quantum theory demands that, In contrast to classical physics, Not all properties can be simultaneously well defined. They provided the first experimental evidence that demonstrated that a single three-state system, A qutrit, No such classical model can exist that correctly describes the results of a simple set of compatible measurements. The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle is a manifestation of this fact. The burden is on the skeptic to show that specific measurements performed by observers were preordained. The universe is not eternal and doesn"t need to exist at all; Alexander Friedmann, Russian cosmologist/mathematician/physicist and Georges Lemaitre, Astronomer/professor of physics (won the Eddington Medal in 1953) both predicted that the universe is expanding by using Einstein"s Theory of General Relativity. Which was later verified by Edwin Hubble, An American astronomer (won the Gold Medal of the Royal Astronomical Society Award in 1940 & the Bruce Medal in 1938) in 1929. This led to the conclusion that an expanding universe must have sprang into existence in the past.
In 1965 two astronomers Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson (won the Nobel Peace Prize in Physics in 1978) discovered cosmic microwave background radiation from the initial explosion of the big bang. This evidence confirmed the existence that the universe is finite. In 2003, The Borde-Guth-Vilenkin Theorem was presented and proved that any expanding universe cannot be past eternal. Cosmologist Alexander Vilenkin said, "With the proof now in place, Cosmologists can no longer hide behind the possibility of a past-eternal universe. There is no escape, They have to face the problem of a cosmic beginning. "
If the universe was contracting it could have not have re-expanded. Alexander Vilenkin addressed this issue, "But the problem is that a contracting universe is highly unstable. Small perturbations would cause it to develop all sorts of messy singularities, So it would never make it to the expanding phase"" It violates science. What about the universe existing necessarily? There are two possibilities; either the universe is grounded in a necessary being (that"s uncaused) or a necessary substance (that"s uncaused). Both avoid the illogical position of an infinite regress. A necessary being is defined as a non-physical necessary mind that comes with intelligence and creative ability to create the universe. A necessary substance is defined as an existing material, So for it to create the universe it has to be able to do something by itself. So the necessary substance would have to be conscious (a non-conscious substance cannot cause itself to create something contingent). It would also have to be non-physical (independent of space-time) since we know that is also finite. Also has to have intelligence to understand how to produce a variety of contingent things and the power to do it. Those are attributes of a necessary being anyways. It should be obvious. How can a substance ACT to create a universe without being these things? That is why we theists say that the explanation is grounded in a necessary being we call God. A non-physical, Conscious substance that is wise, Powerful, And necessary. The skeptic may ask --- if particles can pop into existence why can"t this be how the universe came about? This is a misunderstanding of physics. Subatomic particles don"t pop into existence from nothing but from a fluctuation of energy contained in a vacuum. They are coming from energy. The universe came from a pre-existing substance. Which came from something else or is necessary of itself. In order to avoid the chain of infinite regress. You must conclude it came from a necessary being.
PREMISE 3: The universe exists.
PREMISE 4: Therefore, The universe has an explanation of its existence.
PREMISE 5: Therefore, The explanation of the existence of the universe is grounded in a necessary being. Anything necessary would have to be able to be a first cause in order to cause something else to exist. The best and most logical explanation is that a necessary being exist.

Some skeptics say that the universe doesn"t need a creator.
There is not a scientific explanation of an actual nothing producing something, But a hypothesis that unstable fluctuations in a quantum state could produce space-time and matter. A hypothesis of how quantum information could produce space-time and matter. Quantum information would be timeless, Lacks energy, And spaceless. This is not an absolute nothing. An actual nothing lacks space-time, Matter, Quantum states, Information, And laws of physics. By definition an actual nothing cannot produce something. We must accept the physical universe is not fundamental, But emergent from an underlying reality that is more fundamental than the physical. The physical universe would be a hologram produced by underlying information processes. The conclusion is shared by multiple research done on quantum gravity that space-time seems to be an emerging effect of information processes. Where would this information come from? If there was no space prior to the big bang for which fluctuations contained in a vacuum could possibly produce matter then it would obviously have to come from something else. If there was no matter to form computer like substances performing information processes, And no time for natural processing to play out, Then we are left with a few options. This coheres with the theistic worldview. The Scriptures cohere with this idea that the universe was created from underlying information. Hebrews 11:3 says, "by faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible. " Psalm 33:9 says, "for He spoke and it came to be He commanded and it stood firm. " Genesis 1:3 explains how God spoke things into existence. If there are no computer like substances due to a lack of matter it cannot be physical. If there is no space there would be no vacuum containing quantum fluctuations for which an unstable pseudo-nothing could produce matter. If there is no time for naturalistic processing then the cause is outside of the time realm (timeless). The conclusions of quantum mechanics and quantum gravity research supports this theory. We are left with an immaterial, Timeless, Spaceless, Cause of the universe that can also process information and can cause other things to come out of that information. An immaterial mind that spoke out or thought the universe into existence. Which is information creation.
"Astronomy leads us to a unique event, A universe which was created out of nothing, And delicately balanced to provide exactly the conditions required to support life. In the absence of an absurdity improbable accident, The observation of modern science seem to suggest an underlying, One might say, Supernatural plan. " - American Physicist Arno Penzias (Nobel Prize in Physics in 1978). "The best data we have (concerning the Big Bang) are exactly what I would have predicted had I had nothing to go on but the five book of Moses, The Psalms, And the Bible as a whole. " " American Physicist Arno Penzias. "Certainly there was something that set it all of --- I can't think of a better theory of the origin of the universe to match Genesis. " - American Physicist Robert Wilson (Nobel Prize in Physics in 1978).

We are faced with only two options:
No One created something out of nothing (Atheistic View);
I mentioned earlier that nothing comes from nothing.
Anything that begins to exist must have a cause.
"No One created something out of nothing" is not a cause given scientific evidence and everyday experience.
It requires more faith to believe that the universe was created from nothing.
Someone created something out of nothing (Theistic View);
This option actually has a cause.

I don't have enough room. So next rounds: Evil/suffering, New Testament, And Christ.

Thank You
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

Seasoned beatings! I mean greetings. Sorry. A deliberate miss-steak on my port. Sorry part. I hope that you are drooling, Sorry doing well and in the very best of spirits. OK let's'a get things going!

"I will be taking the position that it is highly probable that the Christian God exists. " So what? But the BOP for you to prove that the christian god exists is entirely up to you, No exceptions, None. After all nobody else has in the history of the human race. How would you test, Demonstrate, Declare and describe YOUR god? What IS YOUR god? YOUR god after all gave no description of himself in your bible. So how do you know what your god is? There"s no evidence of his existence. You have nothing.

Regardless doesn"t SUCK that DDO only allows 10, 000 characters per RD? Sometimes its enough, Sometimes not. Many debaters only leave a few marks of their tribal voices in which don"t go very far, Others blab into far off neverland. You did a bit of both. I"m sure I will do the same. Regardless, I appreciate you showing some intelligence with an attempt at an education, Unlike most. It is appreciated.

"I will acknowledge that I am not capable of answering ALL questions"" Since this is true, Then why believe? Don"t you think you should have ALL answers at your fingertips before jumping headfirst into the unknown? Especially when you and everybody else in the human race has absolutely nothing to go on as far as what your god is concerned with in what is tangible? There"s nothing that is tangible to prove your god. The only thing you have is faith, And faith cannot be proved. Faith is NOT evidence. And faith is the #1 thing preached in YOUR bible in which your god would never use text as a form of communication, The worst form of communication possible.
"Why would you believe anything on faith? Faith isn"t a pathway to truth. Every religion has some sort of faith. If faith is your pathway you can"t distinguish between christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, Any of these others. How is it that you use ---reason--- in every of the other endeavor in your life and then when it comes to the ultimate truth, The most important truth your"re saying that faith is required and how is that supposed to reflect on a god? What kind of a god requires faith instead of evidence? " Matt Dillahunty

"Faith is the reason people give when they don"t have evidence. " Matt Dillahunty

"Faith can be very very dangerous, And deliberately to implant it into the vulnerable mind of an innocent child is a grievous wrong. " Richard Dawkins

"Faith is the great cop-out, The great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is the belief in spite of, Even perhaps because of, The lack of evidence. " Richard Dawkins

You mention as I have mentioned suffering. So let"s talk about it right now to prove your god unloving and uncaring and is essentially a spitwad and "why believe"? "
"When you start making excuses for atrocities you have removed yourself from ANY valid discussion on morals. When you say "yes the bible says you can own slaves but" well now you"re contradicting yourself because before I was asking if you thought the bible was accurately representing the mind of god, The will of god. You"ve got this conflicted mess of contradictions and you"ve found a way to rationalize them. You"ve gone and looked at them and said "boy that one really sounds bad, BUT that"s what Israel was doing that"s not what god was doing. So let me ask you this" do you believe that there"s an all knowing all powerful fun loving god who has an important message for humanity and he is so completely inept that his best attempts at communicating to people managed to convey the exact opposite message of what you think he meant? Now like are you the one who got it right? And all the people who authored the holy book and got you started that they managed to get it wrong? Is your god such a bumbling buffoon that he cannot state "thou shalt not own somebody as another human being? " or "please don"t rape the people and pillage the villages around you"" and he managed to communicate so poorly that it got written down as "Thou shalt be able to own other people as property and oh by the way go over there and kill everybody kill everything except for the young virgins. " Its asinine. You cannot reconcile this. " Matt Dillahunty

"neither will my opponent because of our limited knowledge. " WRONG! My knowledge is extremely vast until proven otherwise. That"s a HUGE MONUMENTAL DIFFERENCE. Do you see the difference? I hope so. In other words, To believe in god, It means to not only believe in suffering and pain is a very good thing, But it is to believe in sheer gullibility and nothing but until proven wrong.

OK one thing that will not be discussed in this debate is christ as he was a false prophet. That is so ridiculously easy to prove. But that is for another debate and has absolutely nothing to do with this debate and remember the killer Robert Bowers killed jews with all of his hate like the stench that he is. Sure bring in the NT. However you cannot bring in the NT without not bringing in the OT. Regardless, The NT is far far farrrrrrrr worse than the OT.
Now if you believe in your god, Then your god gave Robert Bowers the power to commit his atrocious acts, No exceptions, None. That"s what you believe. PE-RI-OD. If not, Then your god is not a god, He is NOT in control of everything, NOT in charge of everything, Does NOT know everything, Is NOT all knowing or all powerful, Is most certainly NOT omnipotent, And most certainly is NOT perfect but does love pain and suffering at its finest. This event + tens or even hundreds of thousands per year proves this. AND your god creates them all. This god of yours must obviously LOVE them, Otherwise he would not create them. It is that simple. Or the best bet is that your god does not exist.

Moving on" The free will issue was already proven in RD1. So that"s taken off the table.

OK premise 1 doesn"t really make much sense. Please explain it better.
PREMISE 2: Is wayyyyyyyy above my head. However I do know"
It doesn"t demonstrate, Declare, Test or prove the christian god. And why the specific christian god especially when there are a good 1, 000 hypocritical contradictions and inconsistencies in the bible alone proving it to be unreadable. Another reason" If true then scientific communities from around the world would have jumped on it stating that it is truth AND the entire world would be united under this so-called god. Thankfully that hasn"t happened. It can never happen if the world is to have peace. There"s another problem" which god? How many gods? To only allow one god is rather short-sighted. Could be hundreds, Thousands, Millions, Quadrillions. Or the best bet? Do what every single good scientist of merit ---always--- does when they don"t know something is they say "I don"t know". Because they don"t know. You don"t know. Nobody knows - yet. And ALL the answers may never be known. Ah but to the christian the words of "I don"t know" are terrorist words because dare their god be imperfect? Of course not. Its completely absurd and ridiculous.
EJR925

Con

EJR925 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
backwardseden

Pro

backwardseden forfeited this round.
EJR925

Con

EJR925 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
backwardseden

Pro

backwardseden forfeited this round.
EJR925

Con

EJR925 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
48 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by kwagga_la 3 years ago
kwagga_la
One atheist thinks he is intelligent because he says he is, And another atheist starts out his opinion of intelligence with "I BELIEVE". I can answer both at the same time: HA HA HA HAHAHAHA HA HA HA HA HAHAHAHA HA HAHA HA HA HAHAHAHA HA HA HA HA HAHAHAHA HA HAHA HA HA HAHAHAHA HA HA HA HA HAHAHAHA HA HAHA HA HA HAHAHAHA HA HA HA HA HAHAHAHA HA HAHA HA HA HAHAHAHA HA HA HA HA HAHAHAHA HA HA!
Posted by PointProven 3 years ago
PointProven
" You are also wayyyyyyyy below my intellectual prowess "

I believe that people who believe in God are automatically 30% less intelligent than people who don't. However, This does not make you a genius. You aren't very self aware and just because you are smarter than these religious ding dongs, Don't act like you are super intelligent. You are not.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
We're not friends bub. I decide who are my friends and who are not. You are not my friend. I don't have room in my heart for completely immoral chatterboxes who know nothing about something and because they do not they have to pretend that they do, And since they don't they have to invent excuses for it especially to those that know better, Namely me. Its also why you have no genuine friends or loved ones is because you cannot present any valid evidence. So in turn they scoff at you and then run. You are also wayyyyyyyy below my intellectual prowess and thus in absolutely no possible way are we friends. Ta ta.
Posted by kwagga_la 3 years ago
kwagga_la
@ who'smybackwards I reply to you because we are friends, Snoogles. I don't want you to feel neglected by not replying. That's just plain rude. This is really very painful to explain to you but let's try: "Nobody cares" about what you have to say if you avoid the question Chucky. Don't take it so personal. It's either that or you don't understand what you read. Did I touch a nerve by calling you a hypocrite? Is the word "hypocrite" your kryptonite? Writing with tear filled eyes, I must say - I love you Chucky.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
You are totally incapable of being civil especially with yourself. What on earth are you squawking about? Well I wasted enough eons of my day on you. Bye.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
Well garsh golly I caught the "nobody cares". You are stupid enough to care. Otherwise, You in being the complete contradictory hypocrite that you knowingly are, You would not continue with your posts. Not too hard to figure out. Duh. But see, You like soooooooooo many here on DDO who has no genuine friends or loved ones for blatant and obvious reasons, Thus nobody cares about YOU, I DO have genuine friends and loved ones and they DO care about me. Awe os the poor knc=ocked upped boo boo gonna cwy now?
Posted by kwagga_la 3 years ago
kwagga_la
@ who'smybackwards Insults? I thought I was being civil up until now.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
You do realize that your insults don't bother me or missmedic - right? Why your little diaphragm filled with pink bile asks? Because our insults are so much better than yours. They are original, They have taste, They are intelligent, They are sometimes an lol riot. Yours are cheap, Worthless, Manure buttery spread on your plucked eyelids of yodeling grunge country opera at a nun's pep rally. Oh gee, I did "divulge" into "your" question and YOU don't like it when it handed back right to you on a silver platter with golden cheeze whiz to make you look like a Peter Popoff gangbang. Too bad your happy hairy hard off doesn't like it. Deal with it. Bye.
Posted by kwagga_la 3 years ago
kwagga_la
@ waybackwards Poor you, Living on another planet. The Chinese, Who are Atheists, Killed the Tibetan Buddhists, Who are also Atheists. You live in an Atheist dream world where it is not allowed to learn about history it seems. You still get the basic question wrong comma (Inserted for your gf) I see. I'm still waiting for you to "divulge" my question. Does it hurt using words like "divulge"? Here's a revelation for you, If you answer a question by avoiding it completely nobody cares either and you just end up looking like a missmedic (a confused gender paradox). It must be hard for you to accuse everyone else of ignorance when you are unable to provide reasons for your fellow atheit's actions. Using YOUR reasoning, You are a killer, Murder, Rapist, Sadist bla bla because you call yourself an atheist and that is what atheist in Russia, Cambodia, China etc did to people who where religious. You are worse than the God you hate. You are a hypocrite of the worst kind. You are a part of the "hate breeding war machine" because you identify your self as an Atheist and that is what Atheist's have done all over the world. That's your way of reasoning, You point the finger and three points back at you.
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
Yes, Please
No votes have been placed for this debate.

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use.