The Instigator
backwardseden
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
FreedomBeforeEquality
Pro (for)
Winning
4 Points

Prove that any biblical prophecy has correctly been prophesied and fulfilled

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
FreedomBeforeEquality
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/19/2020 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,238 times Debate No: 125389
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (82)
Votes (1)

 

backwardseden

Con

For this esteemed debate, Prove that ---any--- biblical prophecy has ever taken place and has correctly been prophesied and fulfilled. Use chapters and verses only from either the KJV, NIV or NLT translations only please to prove that any biblical prophecy has ever presented itself and thus happened.
Present the chapters and or verses in full as presented in the bible in the translations listed and thus tie each of them together clearly and concisely to thus make them a prophecy.

dsjpk5 is disqualified from the voting procedures for this debate as he tries to pretend he's god and thus change the voting structure of who wins and loses here on DDO.
FreedomBeforeEquality

Pro

"People who long to be rich fall into temptation and are trapped by many foolish and harmful desires that plunge them into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. And some people, Craving money, Have wandered from the true faith and pierced themselves with many sorrows. " 1 Timothy 6:9-10 (NLT)

This is derived from many other instances throughout the bible that warn against the love of money.

Now according to your rules " I only need state "any" prophecy (a prediction by definition). This is a prediction of an outcome that the writer proposes will come about to those who fall into temptation and possess a love for money. Your next qualifier was that it was ever fulfilled (which the way this is stated does not necessitate it happening as a rule, Only in circumstance).

Its stated concisely enough. There's 3 rounds so ill save the second for stating to you a circumstance of this happening that is well documented enough. (perhaps an autobiography of a choice philanthropist, Won't be hard to find).
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Con

Still not very bright I see? Why no, Of course not. So now because you have no idea, None as to what a "prophecy" is, I'm going to shovel it down your throat and rightly so.
1. Who told you this was a "correct prophecy?
2. I want actual evidence that this is a prophecy, Not you just spewing at the maw.
3. Take it to 20 different churches within a 20 mile radius. 1 billion to 1 there will be no consensus. Care to make a wager on that? Why no, In your fine freathered fiend positioning, Of course not, Because you cannot prove of god damned thing. So until you do this and take it to 20 different churches AND YOU BE HONEST and 100% you know you won't because you are a true coward and you know it because dare you prove yourself to be wrong? Why no, Of course not. And what has been stated is true, It is not a prophecy.
4. You are a deist in which case deism cannot in any possible way be true as previously proven, And you are not a so-called christian (don't worry, There is no such thing as christianity either as it is truly impossible to follow the laws, Rules and regulations set down by the sneezerag christ in which case there is no proof that it has ever existed just like his daddy, God), So in fact you would not know that much about christianity especially considering that there are over 33, 480 denominations of christianity.

5. Here's a video to help you out of your biblical prophecy mode (nah, We both know that will never happen as you know nothing about your religion, And god and yet you pretend that you do and because you don't you have to invent excuses for it which is a very bad idea, Especially to someone who knows one helluva lot better than you, Namely me) which knows far better than a Residents (great band btw) cook like you.
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=ckaIK0SkN94 - the call begins at 01:42:56 Steve-OH
You can jump to the 1:47:45 mark if you wish or watch and listen to the entire call, Either or. It's only a couple of minutes.

This one is 30 minutes and it really gets into depth on prophecy since once again you don't know. . .
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=DiS4WP48fmY - Prophecy Pt1

Have fun.
FreedomBeforeEquality

Pro

Simply stated it is a biblical prediction that those who possess a love of money will inevitably find ruin because of it. It's a prophecy in that regard. You can choose not to believe it or what have you, But at least the church has canonized such a prophecy and has gone so far as to claim you can't get into their heaven with that same love for money or material possessions. Many other religions support the same teaching. I only chose this Christian application of it because you seem to have such a vendetta against them.

1) Who told me it was a prophecy? Well the good saint Timothy did in his writings. This should make it even more so a prophecy in your eye, Since he was a man claiming to be in contact with God and was close through his disciples. He is predicting that god's punishment will come about to those who don't follow this belief. Whether you believe he's right or not, Or you think he's a quack, Or that everyone who believes that teaching holds some truth is a quack. . . That's all neither here nor there.

2) Proof? I gave you the book and verse in the bible. Its cited. Go look it up.

3) Taking it to churches. . . Ok now you're just getting angry and ridiculous again. I have to do no such thing. That book which I cited it from, Again, Is an extremely common version of the bible. You're right that I could go to any number of churches in the local area and they'd support it. They have 100 of these in the pews at any given time. You're not going to strawman your way out of this one again with ridiculous errands like that to try and detract from the argument. And thanks for jumping back to the insults right away.

4) My being a deist is also unimportant here. I can be an advocate for Christians in this. I think they call what you're doing there the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.

5) Ill try and watch your videos again, But if you're crying wolf and sending me off to watch things that don't apply to this debate, If its more ramblings about how you disagree with the bible, Or how ridiculous you think the people who believe it are. . . I really don't care. Opinions don't apply here. I've given you what you asked.

Below are just a few examples of where a person's greed brought them ruin (though you only asked for proof that it 'ever' came true, So only one should suffice). So that you won't immediately dismiss them for being religious based examples. . . Ill pull a couple from more modern culture as well:

1) The great recession we just went through and the collapse of the mortgage market. You can read a take of it here as far as how mortgage lenders out to make a quick buck were giving unbacked loans out, Which resulted in their institutions going under and widespread losses to virtually every other sector (retirement funds, Property equity, Job losses, Etc. ) They are a little forgiving in the way they portray the lending institutions. . . But its clear that the ones who did not participate in these lending practices fared better than those that did as far as net losses go and didn't need bailed out. Now granted, We "saved" them from the complete burden of that incident, But its all still being paid for regardless. We just look at it as more a burden on us to let them be punished for what they've done, So we elected to bail them out and share the burden.
https://www. Britannica. Com/topic/great-recession

2) Here's a decent article from the National Parks Service talking about the gold rush of the late 1800's and all the people who died in search for gold. The more interesting parts being where they talk of trauma caused by physical violence most often inflicted during the commission of a crime. Greed led to Robberies, Which then led to Deaths.
https://www. Nps. Gov/articles/klgo-death. Htm

3) Greedy rulers of imperialist nations have been struck multiple times for overreaching. Imperialist nations of Europe have brought several wars upon their people over the years in pursuit of money and power, And governments have toppled because of it.

4) Unions have several times over caused their companies to lose business, Stagnate individual growth, And even cause businesses to go under. Unions are the reason everything is more expensive to make here in America than it is elsewhere, And the same greed that has people wanting higher wages also has them wanting to keep those wages and buy cheap imported products. Its a vicious cycle that's biting us now with job loss and foreign control of essentials like energy and steel production. We lose our independence that way, Resulting in higher costs to us and war.
https://www. Heritage. Org/jobs-and-labor/commentary/unions-have-failed-adapt

5) On an individual level, Hollywood and Sports stars have been burned on numerous occasions for being greedy. They make too high of a demand on themselves that someone else isn't willing to pay, Anger them, And they take their offer off the table.

6) The types of criminals who went too far, Made a name for themselves, And generated a bounty they couldn't outrun. Bonnie and Clyde, Al Capone, John Dillinger, Jesse James, And the like. There's an endless list of drug dealers you can add to this as well.

7) "The man who dies rich dies disgraced" - Andrew Carnegie
"Charity is injurious unless it helps the recipient become independent of it" - John Rockefeller
Both of these men have autobiographies that can be found on amazon if you want to read them. The quotes alone demonstrate and understanding of greed/money bringing about anguish (Carnegie saw it as disgrace, Rockefeller saw it as a burden on ones independence)
Debate Round No. 2
backwardseden

Con

You should get off your unproven storybook character god of print only dick for a second.

"Simply stated it is a biblical prediction that those who possess a love of money will inevitably find ruin because of it. "
DID YOU WATCH THE VIDEO you lumbering slobbering super duper unintelligent, Edumacated atom as compared to the big bang? Why no. Of course not. You are as bright as smog in downtown Shanghai or L. A, Before the pandemic so even your horsey that you ride in on cannot even take a dump on your ridiculous Schroeder maw.

Oh and btw, The links absolutely 100% do work. So don't hand me your barbiturate blabbering insults of how stupid you are that you cannot figure them out because I most certainly did post unto you how you could at least twice before. And you have the f--king nerve to say I don't read what you say you total 100% true hypocritical contradictory hypocrite?

"Simply stated it is a biblical prediction that those who possess a love of money will inevitably find ruin because of it. "
Been more than well covered. Moving on.

1. "1) Who told me it was a prophecy? Well the good saint Timothy did in his writings. "
NOBODY knows who wrote the bible AND you 100% prove it.
"Since he was a man claiming to be in contact with God. . .
Notice you use the word "claiming"? So in other words, In your words, It is a claim. A claim is NOT evidence. A claim is a claim, Nothing more. Let's move on and completely trash #1 since you clearly have no idea what a claim is in comparison to what evidence is. LOOK EACH WORD UP. Duh.

2. That's a good boy as you completely ruined your static erection. Are you really THIS pathetic? Why yes you are.
Once again we're going to play the 3 strike rule. 3 strikes and you are out of this debate. That's an easy strike 1 for stumbling over your own idiocies.

3. Since you won't take it to 20 different churches within a 20 mile radius (btw, That's not my idea to do as such) and you decide to attack me instead, It means you are a true coward and you will not do this because you 100% know that in no possible way with what you have stated will ring true.
A super easy strike 2.

4. Your claims of being a deist are 100% important and are completely relevant. Being both a theist AND a deist is 100% impossible. Regardless, There's no such thing as deism as proven. There's really no such thing as theism either. You are just climbing up the pole to cover your flame-broiled a$$ and you know it. This points you out as being a true condescending contradictory hypocrite and a liar who will say absolutely anything in meager attempts to get his way, Especially to thus further invent excuses and flat out lie. And we both know you've done this multiple times. You've done it here on this debate a few times already. Again, I truly hate those that invent excuses and flat out lie. I NEVER do it because there is no reason to do it. I CAN back up the claims I make with evidence. You can't. All you do is make claims with invented excuses and contradictory hypocritical lies that you think will not be detected. Too bad. They are easily detected.
Strike 3.
Bye. I have no desire to have anything to do with someone that will say anything, And thus invent excuses and clearly flat out lie (Donald manure Spread Trump, Easily the worst president of all time does this all the time and has been proven doing it and so have you but keeps on doing it which makes him both a psychopath and a sociopath and with you, You have no genuine friends or loved ones, None. It's a HUGE red flag for people to distance themselves from you which I am going to do right now and thus block you) in meager attempts to get his way rather than being truthful about things in which case you are totally incapable of.

Have you learned your lesson? Probably not.
FreedomBeforeEquality

Pro

1) A prediction IS a claim there buddy. That's what this entire argument is about. The proof comes later. We are well past the claim part. I was only showing you where they made their claim. The proof that their claim is true is literally everything else past that. The claim (prophecy) can't also be the proof it will come about. You were given outside proof of that.

2) Perhaps you have the mental capacity to explain why? Where's your logic? Or have you only name calling in your bag again?

3) Since I won't perform excessive labor to prove something to you that I have already proven inherently by the source from which I gathered it from " your premise is that now its because I know it won't be true? Get real. Ill let the voters be the judge of that level of ridiculousness. Tasking me and moving the goalposts hasn't diminished the proof i've already given, Which you failed to address.

4) So then the only belief background a person can have to have this conversation with you is someone from your echo chamber? Again I don't see how this applies to this argument, Here and now.

I'm secure in the responses you gave, I don't think I need to address this any further for the voters sake.
Debate Round No. 3
82 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by FreedomBeforeEquality 3 months ago
FreedomBeforeEquality
How can you say it has nothing positive to offer? Placebo effect has been proven fairly effective time and time again. Not everything has to be complete truth in every aspect, Especially considering the mixed interpretations people will assign to anything. Would you deny that you can get a positive outcome from someone through the medium of theistic explanations for things? This is really why I love to use Aesop as a great example (mostly also because he can be taken as a more unbiased and harmless source for people who hate on theism to swallow).

I really don't find much value in proving theism wrong where the endgame result doesn't matter. Like arguing about death or if there is an afterlife. What harm is there in believing there is one? Moreso, What harm are you inflicting on people by tearing that away from them? People have been motivated to do some pretty great things when they think there's a big brother in the sky that's proud of what they are doing, Or that they will be taken care of if they perform self sacrifice for others. You don't motivate people to do that through atheism.

Plus, Really, Why strip that of them? Some people need that motivation to get through tough times, Through tough moral decisions, Etc. Granted maybe you can on your own (though sometimes I have my doubts, When I can't know what taught you or how you came to your conclusions) I can expect a certain morality standard from people who are schooled by the bible. Atheists would be a wildcard of sorts in society, Where someone theist I can give the benefit of the doubt to. With atheists I can only expect primal human nature from, Theists I can at least expect to aspire to do good (whether its a fake apparition putting that fear into them or not). Often times the fake apparition wins over the persons decisions than the authority of man does. I chose to side with that known value. Maybe if you have some kind of manifesto?
Posted by Surgeon 4 months ago
Surgeon
@freedombeforeequality

Yeah I have mixed feelings on that. I really appreciate the work of the so called "New Atheists". They have made it more socially acceptable to be an Atheist and have at least rhetorically challenged Theistic cancards and bizarre Theistic overreach (such as Creationism). Energy is certainly required to combat noise and nonsense like that.

BUT I have a huge problem with it then becomming a sneering militancy and anti-intellectualism, That think it knows it all. One cannot simply watch the "Atheist Experience" and believe you can successfully knock-down Theism. OK I know there are a lot of very dumb and desperate Theistic arguments that should be shot down aggressively. But that approach does not cantilever well into the sophisticted and well defended Theistic arguments.

I simply do not understand someone who is content to simply knock-down other arguments, Rather than develop their own. Atheism (to me) is a trivial conclusion from an overall philosophy. It is an interesting aspect of it, But certainly not the whole of my philosophy. But my point is that is the way it should be. As an Atheist one should be able to ground Athiesm in a proper foundation. Theism has no such problem, It is its own foundation and needs to face combat in debate on equal terms. To simply be a skeptic (wrt Theism), Means one cuts the ground from under ones own feet. One is foundationless and have nothing positive to offer.
Posted by FreedomBeforeEquality 4 months ago
FreedomBeforeEquality
@Surgeon

Its pretty clear he is like that at least.

The rest of this convo with him is going nowhere though, So ill have to stop for now (still baffled that he unknowingly is using himself as the baseline for whether ones 'Big Issues' score means they are right/wrong or their opinions are simply rejected by the public)

I mean, In religious arguments, If any theist was to say something so dumb I would call them on it for fear of them making me look bad by proxy. This guy has no shame and isn't doing you guys (Atheists) any favors.
Posted by Surgeon 4 months ago
Surgeon
@freedombeforeequality

"Maybe you and I know he's like that. But I was only taking him literally. I don't want to come into every argument with him now making assumptions about him if he comes up with a solid argument for something else entirely. It wouldn't be as impartial, And it doesn't help the discussion. "

I can agree the standard of Atheist argumentation is not very high. But it does not mean you should accept debates purely on that basis, As opposed to the substance. Whilst the language may have been lazy, The "graveman" was clear, And I find this approach (whilst to some degree understandable), To be beneath your intellect.

What troubles me more however is that in some of your responses you are hinting at general Theist canards that "Atheists aren"t really Atheists (subconsciously they are theists), Or that we are all "some kind of post modernist or extreme skeptic or subjectivist". Maybe I have not interpreted you correctly. But for clarity if that is your view, It is simply false, And means you are not taking Atheism seriously as a philosophical position.
Posted by backwardseden 4 months ago
backwardseden
So what you do, Since you don't know what you are squawking about for everything, To thus make an attempt to be respected, Which is a very bad idea, Especially to those that know better which is once again why you have no genuine friend or loved ones because they most certainly do walk every single time or they like me insult you and rightly so, Is you invent excuses for it and or flat out lie for something in which case you clearly know absolutely nothing about and yet you pretend that you do.

10. Now do you REALLY think I don't know you and EXACTLY what feeds you and what drives you and what makes you tick like an exploding sack of barf? Yeah. I do. I'me veryyyyyyy good at reading people. Would you care to know how I am? Or would you like to shove your god into the spaghetti monster mobile as you've always done since these tombstone debates of your have begun since you have no idea what you are yapping about and yet you pretend that you do but cannot support it with any evidence? Try harder.

11. Since you've refused to take a look at the 3 different pieces of evidence presented in the previous set of posts which truly makes you look like a splattered recipe of baked and fried water, I have no further interest in you. You could bore yourself to sleep during a nuclear war. I think the very best thing for you to do could possibly be is to write, Direct, Star, Produce your own porno movie just for you. Sounds good?

Time for my nap. My garlic armpits needs a rest from your lack of a knowing universe. It's far too small for any truth of any kind. You know it.
Posted by backwardseden 4 months ago
backwardseden
1. Just as I knew you would, You are too cowardly to watch some irrefutable videos and get an edumacation which means that you are once again as pointed out for at least an 8th time or more, You are a coward, But not only are you a coward here, You are a coward that cannot handle any kind of truly irrefutable evidence especially when it is slapped in your face.
2. You also did not look at the wikipedia link to see how your religion is diminishing all over the world and rightly so. Again you are a coward and cannot handle evidence when it is handed slapped to you up your sandpaper reareth golden a$$.
3. You also completely ignored that you will not take the Pew Research Center 32 question quiz on religion to prove how little you know on religion to once again show that you are a true coward and truly afraid of failure.
4. The Big Issues do matter for debates. They do matter for psychological and character evaluations. Yours SUCKS. And is a true record low. Now what's so hard to for your thermal jammies to understand about that?
5. You have no genuine friends or loved ones. NONE. There's no one, Absolutely no one that would happily take a bullet for you and die for you. It's a HUGE red flag that NOBODY should hang around with you and take you at your word because if NOBODY will, There must be a pretty damn good reason for it. It's so ridiculously easy to spot among genuine losers who have absolutely nothing to go for them in life.
6. You present absolutely no evidence to support your claims and yet you expect everybody to believe you. WHERE'S---YOUR---EVIDENCE?
7. You have no idea what a deist is. You have very little idea, If that, As to what a theist is.
8. Truly infuriating is you have no idea, None, As to what an atheist is, And yet you pretend that you do.
9. You have a lack of edumacation and intelligence on every single thing thus far discussed. And you blunder why I insult, Degrade and dehumanize you. Say "duh" for the nerd Barbie doll.
Posted by FreedomBeforeEquality 4 months ago
FreedomBeforeEquality
Id wager that no one would want to hang out with someone who can't interpret simple calculations and data effectively. I know both sides have people like you, But I think its ironic that youd post videos of that Atheist group bashing callers with uneducated opinions on things when you are that very same person for the atheist side. I wish youd realize that. If this is how you interpret all data supporting your world view, Its all subject to scrutiny now at this point.
Posted by FreedomBeforeEquality 4 months ago
FreedomBeforeEquality
Better yet, Care to start a debate on the relevancy of that number as seen on your page?
Posted by FreedomBeforeEquality 4 months ago
FreedomBeforeEquality
Please somebody help this guy understand how the Big Issues compatibility scoring system works. He's not going to listen to me.

I knew coming on here again that this was going to go one of two ways, Either you were going to be a big man and apologize for your misunderstanding of that system -or- you were going to be completely ignorant and double down on your statement again. Im glad I wasn't wrong about you, You did not disappoint.
Posted by backwardseden 4 months ago
backwardseden
And why you scored so amazingly low like ab-so-lu-te-ly none other on The Big Issues. But apparently you want things to be this way, To be a true tepid loser that nobody wants to be near, That nobody wants to engage with.

"Because you guys already believe that such a prediction is only possible coming from a place of logic"
No wrong. For me it goes a lot further than that is which cases it was already mentioned unto you but you CAN'T READ which shows that indeed you are a supposed christian with at least a 15% lesser edumacation. It's thinking, Reasoning, Rationalizing, Common sense, Logic, PLUS education, Intelligence, And I want something that is there, Something that I can see, In which case you have none of and all in which is not taken on faith nor gullibility in which case for you is a must in order to believe which is a supermassive demanding by your unproven storybook character god of print only fatal flaw.

"Again, I see all of this as a way of trying to pull the good arguments away from the religious guys"
Well you know what? Since 2007 religion has lost roughly 11% here in the US from 2000 to 2017 and atheism has doubled. And with the Covin-19 virus floating, Though none of the numbers are in, It's taking no prisoners, You can count on it that church numbers are wayyyyyyyyyyyy down.
https://en. Wikipedia. Org/wiki/Decline_of_Christianity
Like I said, I can ---always--- back up what I state and say. You can't. In fact where's your evidence for anything? Since it doesn't exist, You lose. Darn.

"separating out just the bad elements to paint them in a bad light. "
Well gosh Fred and Ginger, Ever read your bible? IT'S BAD. Whatever gave you the idea that god is good?

Well sorry about that I mixed up the second and third posts. Shoot me with a brick Buddhist phallic teddy bear.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 4 months ago
dsjpk5
backwardsedenFreedomBeforeEqualityTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Con called Pro "pathetic" in round three. That's poor conduct. Pro offered a prophecy that predicts economic ruin, then gave an example of this happening in reality... thereby proving its fulfillment.

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