The Instigator
King_kuzma
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
elegy
Con (against)
Winning
8 Points

Rape culture does not exist in the USA

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
elegy
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/5/2018 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,987 times Debate No: 118859
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (70)
Votes (2)

 

King_kuzma

Pro

People believe there is a rape culture in America, By definition they are saying the US supports the rape of women and or men and that we let them get away with it. That is completely false, We punish rapists who are convicted and if they are not convicted then there wasn't valid proof or they simply didn't do it.
elegy

Con

First, Rape culture is not defined as the 'support of rape and the lack of criminal condemnation'. It is defined as a sociological concept which describes the normalization of rape. This can result in a lax response to rape, And/or fictionalizing the issue of rape, Which is similar to what you are doing now.

I recall my social psychology professor informing my class and I of a program his professional colleague conducted. She hosted classes for college students wherein she defined consent in relation to romantic or sexual encounters, Conducted surveys and questionnaires, And put up flyers that read something along the lines of "'no' means 'no'". During the classes, He told us, His colleague observed that a sample size of male students seemed to lack an understanding of"or feigned an ignorance of"social nuance: verbal cues, Body language, Etc. However, In response to the flyers across campus, Male students were observed to have vandalized the flyers with the words 'no means yes' and vulgar drawings. This supported the idea that they are aware of what they are doing, But they have created a culture where rape is a crime that is ultimately inconsequential.

On the other hand, As @omar2345 mentioned, Victims of rape often do not report that they have been raped or sexually assaulted. However, This is not a problem in itself, But indicative of a larger problem. Law enforcement and political leaders have set a precedent of disregarding rape cases, Choosing to instead research the victim to ensure credibility through questions such as 'was she drunk? ', 'was she wearing revealing clothing? ', 'did she ask to be raped through implication by passing out in a public place? ', 'is she sexually active', 'is she characterized by promiscuous behavior'? What you wear or how you behave does not give someone else the right to violate your personal space, Your right to privacy, Or your physical or psychological well-being. America has adopted a trend of criminalizing the victim.

In fact, More than 400, 000 rape kits go untested across the nation. This is a resource that will provide empirical evidence that a victim has been assaulted. However, The nation's justice agenda is more concerned with nipping the plausibility of there being rape through assailing the integrity of the victim rather than examining the case to identify if there has been a crime through pursuing the evidence behind the claim. The American government has long boasted the unalienable right to be innocent until proven guilty, But has it championed it? Have we? An accused should be innocent until proven guilty, But this extends to the victim too; why do we assume a individual is guilty for claiming to be a victim of a common crime?

According to the National Sexual Violence Resource Center, 1 in 5 women are raped at some point in their life and 1 in 71 men are raped at some point in their life. Is it really so difficult to believe that people are raped? The case regarding Anita Hill, An attorney and professor of law and society, And Clarence Thomas, Who at the time was nominated for a position among the Supreme Court and was therefore screened, Illustrates this narrative. Hill addressed her civic duty to inform the judiciary of Thomas's possible lack of credibility when she shared how he made unwanted sexual advances toward her and consistently made sexual innuendos in a professional setting. Her fulfillment duty, However, Was directly met with doubt, Accusations that she wanted attention, And or had some ulterior motive that involved either defaming nominee Clarence Thomas or furthering some ambition of her own, As if they believed that she found some victory in sitting through nine hours of grueling interrogation on national television.

Moreover, The social stigma of revealing that you have been raped is doubly discouraging; consider how your parents or community might see you after you reveal you were raped. Religious communities especially well consider a young woman who has been raped to be 'tainted', And therefore be ineligible to become a wife. Hyper-masculine communities especially well consider a man who has been raped to be emasculated: a pale shadow of what a man is supposed to be. The victim will be extricated and ostracized by their own community. Sharing that you have been raped is a gamble for justice, But since history has shown that this gamble is unlikely to yield positive results for the victim, Victims of rape are heavily discouraged from reporting what they have suffered.
Debate Round No. 1
King_kuzma

Pro

First of it seems your not really debating the topic, Your saying that there is a lack of caring in the US and that may very well be true, But that is not what I'm debating, I'm debating the fact that in the US as a whole there is no rape culture. Also your claim women not reporting isn't a problem is absurd, Not reporting is a very big problem and the fact that they don't report it is actually causing a bigger problem in the sense we can not stop something that is not there to stop. You also seem to be pushing the fact that I'm saying rape doesn't happen, That is completely wrong, Yes rape occurs, It occurs way too often but that does not create a culture that by definition supports people being raped.
elegy

Con

Please re-read my argument. I never once implied or claimed that you don't believe rape exists. And you are in fact debating the lack of care surrounding rape cases. This is what 'rape culture' is defined as:

You also took what I said about victims (both male and female) not reporting rape or sexual assault out of context. I never once claimed that it's a good thing that it isn't reported, Or that it wasn't a problem in itself. I stated that it is because rape is so normalized (called 'rape culture'), That victims of such crimes have not received the justice that is due. As a result, A substantial fraction of victims, Who are already discouraged by communities and a culture where the victim is isolated and/or shamed for being raped, No longer report their case.

This lack of reporting is the RESULT of a rape culture. In fact, Look at the current political case surrounding Kavanaugh. Kavanaugh was accused of sexual assault by Ford. Regardless of whether or not Kavanaugh is guilty, Ford was immediately struck with social backlash, Despite carrying her civic duty to warn the judiciary of a potential inadequacy regarding the Supreme Court judge nominee Kavanaugh. She was doubted, Ridiculed, Threatened through mail, And accused of being a liar before a thorough investigation of any kind was initiated.

I also gave an anecdote of my professor's colleague's experiment and program regarding rape culture. The result directly supported that America has become a "setting in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender and sexuality".

THIS is rape culture.

I think the problem here is that you don't know what you're arguing against, Which is why I and another commentor attempted to clarify before continuing the debate. I implore you to double-check the definition of 'rape culture', And to re-read my argument from last round, Before we proceed.
Debate Round No. 2
King_kuzma

Pro

King_kuzma forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
King_kuzma

Pro

King_kuzma forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
70 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Thoht 3 years ago
Thoht
Rape culture is such a terrible term. It has implications that it does not mean.

If King's definition of rape culture is a culture which directly encourages rape then he is correct, We don't have that.

The way our laws are setup protects people who are charged with a crime as much as those who are not. The question of consent is very difficult to prove with the way many people have sex.

I submit that many rapes are possibly not reported because the female doesn't feel it is worth it or a lawyer believes there is no way their burden of proof could be met.

This is not, In my opinion, The fault of our culture, But one of technology and logistics.

We are not punishing rapists who deserve it. We are also punishing some men who are not rapists (false rape).

There are many avenues King could have tackled this by. I would possibly be willing to do it myself.

Using the term "Rape Culture" will never solve the issue.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
Rape culture: a society or environment whose prevailing social attitudes have the effect of normalizing or trivializing sexual assault and abuse

King_kuzma did not clearly define rape culture which gave elegy no reason to follow what he meant by the definition because he did not know. Elegy went with the definition above I think which he did forget to include but I blame that on King_kuzma because he did start the debate.

Society is below the law. This makes it more difficult to find examples but elegy did. I wish King_kuzma rebutted his argument but it wasn't sufficient. This does also make this debate more subjective since someone can find something a rape culture but another might. I don't like surveys because it does not tell the entire story. Elegy did bring up an example of men trolling on fliers but I think he used it to say how men normalize it. Whether or not I agree with it King_kuzma did not rebut it.

I think King_kuzma was trying to say was rape is not legally permissible. If he say that as the title or in his starting argument I highly doubt elegy can point to a law which allows rape.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
Anyways, Good luck on good future endeavours and hopefully you have the 'free will' to do the right things in life
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
"Of course the brain determines the action before we act. " That was my point.

Free will:" the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion. "

By definition we do not have free will.

" that science will never be able to predict serial killers, "- I think you are demeaning what humans are capable of. Think about how much humans have done in 20 years. Think about what could happen in the next 20 years. All I am saying to this nothing is impossible. I was able to predict A. I becoming more effective every year but it is.

"because they cannot predict what is not there. "- with enough information like past experiences like meetings with the psychiatrist and scan of a mentally ill patient. This enough to predict what could happen.

"We are not gods. Humans will forever be imperfect, And so everything we make will forever be imperfect, Including science. "- You are speaking like you are part of a religion. Science is perfect until it is proven otherwise. If you mean imperfect as something that I cannot fathom then that is not fair and does not give me a point of contention. I know humans a flaws but I deal it with, I don't stop argument with humans are flaws and what they do are also flawed. With the current knowledge we have science is right. No other alternative has proven to more true then science.

"The choice does not matter" -that was the part we you said we had to choose from 2 choices.

"Remember what you said about confirmation bias? "- Ironic but I still do not see an argument against it which I found would change my mind from the knowledge I was given from you.

Watch the video as a last thing. If you do not want to talk anymore it is completely fine. I'll just make a debate on free will does not exist and find someone who would debate this so that I can have my ideas tested.

Anyways, Good luck on good future endeavours and hopefully you have the 'free will' to do the right things in li
Posted by elegy 3 years ago
elegy
Oh one more thing. The author of video you linked does not argue for "free will does not exist". He doesn't know this because he isn't (this will sound presumptuous so forgive me) educated enough in philosophy.

What he argued for is 'compatibilism', Or 'deep compatibilism' (a different philosophy than compatibilism). Look it up. It states that free will and determinism (no free will) can co-exist. Basically, It claims that somtimes we don't have a choice, But other times we will.

I think that's what you're interested in is this philosophy, Which tries to reconcile science and free will. But fr my analysis and that of professionals, It's still less sound than libertarianism.

That's all. Good luck now, And thanks for the discourse.
Posted by elegy 3 years ago
elegy
Oh and a quick note: don't watch videos that only confirm your initial stance. If you want truth, Expose yourself to the opposition. If your beliefs hold fast, Then you have some credibility to your stance.

Remember what you said about confirmation bias?
Posted by elegy 3 years ago
elegy
I was a science major and have discussed the concept of free will with both my mentors in science and philosophy; I'm telling you your faith is misplaced. Scientists are tasked with gathering empirical (observable) data. Chemical reaction give us this space we call the realm of thought, And that's where free will resides. The product of free will is not the chemical reaction itself but rather the interaction between the reactions.

Scientists and scholars with more degrees and a broader breadth of education than us state the limits of science. How can you blindly follow your doctrine when your prophets warn against blindly following the doctrine, Because it is imperfect? We are not gods. Humans will forever be imperfect, And so everything we make will forever be imperfect, Including science.

You are guilty of the same thing you mentioned you claimed to avoid earlier: a narrow mind. You are too wed to this doctrine of yours. You think science is omnipotent; you think it able of feats that it is not capable of, But which actual scientists understand it will never be capable of.

"The choice does not matter". What exactly are you arguing for? I don"t understand. Free will or no fee will, The entire discourse is predicated in the question: "Do we ever have a choice? " Free Will says we do. You, Thus far, Have said we don't. The video is dismal as well; it does not address the function of thought, And it fails to realize that necessity and desire do not discredit free will, It merely encourages it.

That said, I don"t want to continue this any longer. You don"t seem to be interested in examining this objectively, And the website has gotten very buggy for me (hence my late reply). It"s very difficult for me to type on this website and to post anything atm. I don"t know how long this will last, But I read somewhere that this website has been like this for years because of a lack of management. Anyway, Good luck in your pursuit of knowledge!
Posted by elegy 3 years ago
elegy
You still do not understand what free will is, In spite of the fact that I have defined it for you twice after you asked me to.

Of course the brain determines the action before we act. How else could we act? Free will is a facilitation of the mind, Not the body. And need I remind you, Neuroscientists are not philosophers. They do not critically think, They simply cultivate statistics regarding electrochemical reactions. They think they are right because they are approaching this from the same position you are: a position that does not address free will, As I've mentioned time and again throughout this discourse. Re-read my arguments if you are not making the connections yet.

And again, Nothing you have said thus far supports the idea of 'no free will'. You're buying into my point by trying to prove and advocate how people can believe that they believe there is no free will.

The choice DOES matter. That's what free will is. This discussion is entirely about whether we have a choice or not. By neglecting to acknowledge this, What are you arguing for? Nothing. You're blindly trying to prove science's credibility but to what end? You're not addressing free will at all. And no, Nothing you have said thus far, Or linked to "proves" (which by the way, Is a word scientists avoid; be careful of your arrogance, Science was never an art of certainty) or supports 'no free will'. All you have done thus far is try to diminish the credibility of free will, All arguments which I have soundly debunked thus far.

Again, Let go of your fanaticism of science for a moment and examine the facts. Realize, For instance, That science will never be able to predict serial killers, Because they cannot predict what is not there. It is only after someone becomes a serial killer that they begin to exhibit certain qualities that can be identified as that which is correlated with serial killers, And that in turn only happens when someone makes the decision to kill, And kill again, Etc
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
The video I posted should give more reasons why free will does not exist. I would say he does a better job then Sam Harris and of course me.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
Another video you could watch

https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=o0GN4urbA_c
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Thoht 3 years ago
Thoht
King_kuzmaelegyTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Con provided facts to show that rape culture exists. This does not mean it is encouraged, but that the way our society is setup discourages women from reporting rape. The term 'rape culture' however, is a poor one. Whoever named it this is doing their own position a disservice.
Vote Placed by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
King_kuzmaelegyTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: See the comments section

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use.