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Report details sexual abuse by more than 300 priests in Pennsylvania's Catholic Church

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/14/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 2,694 times Debate No: 117725
Debate Rounds (4)
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(CNN) A new grand jury report says that internal documents from six Catholic dioceses in Pennsylvania show that more than 300 "predator priests" have been credibly accused of sexually abusing more than 1, 000 child victims.

"We believe that the real number of children whose records were lost or who were afraid ever to come forward is in the thousands, " the grand jury report says.

"Priests were raping little boys and girls, And the men of God who were responsible for them not only did nothing; they hid it all. For decades. Monsignors, Auxiliary bishops, Bishops, Archbishops, Cardinals have mostly been protected; many, Including some named in this report, Have been promoted. Until that changes, We think it is too early to close the book on the Catholic Church sex scandal. "

The lengthy report, Released Tuesday afternoon, Investigates clergy sexual abuse in six dioceses dating back to 1947. Pennsylvania's two other dioceses, Philadelphia and Altoona-Johnstown, Were the subjects of earlier grand jury reports, Which found similarly damaging information about clergy and bishops in those dioceses.

"There have been other reports about child sex abuse within the Catholic Church. But never on this scale, " the grand jurors wrote in Tuesday's report.

"For many of us, Those earlier stories happened someplace else, Someplace away. Now we know the truth: it happened everywhere. "

The grand jurors said that "almost every instance of abuse we found is too old to be prosecuted. " But charges have been filed against two priests, One in Erie diocese and another in Greensburg diocese, Who have been accused of abusing minors.

"We learned of these abusers directly from their dioceses -- which we hope is a sign that the church is finally changing its ways, " the grand jurors said. "And there may be more indictments in the future; investigation continues. "

At a news conference announcing the report's release, Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro called it the "largest, Most comprehensive report into child sexual abuse within the Catholic Church ever produced in the United States. "

Molestations and rapes
At times, The lengthy catalog of clergy sexual abuses in the report is difficult to read. As the grand jurors note, Priests and other Catholic leaders victimized boys and girls, Teens and pre-pubescent children.

Some victims were plied with alcohol and groped or molested, The report says. Others were orally, Vaginally or anally raped, According to the grand jurors.

"But all of them were brushed aside, In every part of the state, By church leaders who preferred to protect the abusers and their institution above all. "

Among the more egregious cases, The grand jury reports that:
" In the Greensburg diocese, A priest impregnated a 17-year-old, Forged a pastor's signature on a marriage certificate and divorced the girl months later. According to the grand jury, The priest was allowed to stay in ministry by finding a "benevolent bishop. "
" Another priest in Greensburg groomed middle-school students for sex, According to the grand jury, By telling them that Mary had to "bite off the cord" and "lick" Jesus clean after the Nativity.
" In Harrisburg, A priest abused five sisters from the same family and collected samples of their urine, Pubic hair and menstrual blood.
" Also in Harrisburg, A priest raped a 7-year-old girl who was in the hospital after her tonsils were removed, According to the report.
" In Pittsburgh, Church officials said that a 15-year-old boy "pursued" and "literally seduced" a priest. A church report later acknowledged that the priest had admitted to "sado-masochistic" activities with several boys.
" In the Allentown diocese, A priest admitted sexually molesting a boy and pleaded for help, According to documents, But was left in ministry for several more years.
" Also in Allentown, A priest who had abused several boys, According to the grand jury, Was given a recommendation to work at Disney World.
" In Scranton, A priest who later served prison time for abusing children was found to have been HIV-positive for years.

Tuesday's news conference began with a short video of three victims who told how they were abused and how it changed their lives.

An 83-year-old man said he couldn't show any affection to his wife and children as a result of the abuse he suffered. A woman said the abuse started when she was 18 months old. Another man said, "When you have the priest touching you every day, That's a hard memory to have. The first erection that you have is at the hands of a priest. "

The victims said this was "not a vendetta against the church" and that abusers have "to be accountable in the church for what they did. "

'Grave failings'
The grand jury's searing report comes as the Catholic Church, Including Pope Francis, Is struggling to contain a sexual abuse scandal rapidly consuming the church on several continents.

In Australia, A bishop has been found guilty of covering up sexual abuse. In Chile, The Pope was forced to recant his dismissal of an abuse scandal involving a prominent priest and bishops accused of covering up his crimes.

And in the United States, A prominent archbishop was removed from the powerful College of Cardinals following reports that he had molested a teenage altar boy and several others while he was rising through the church's ranks. Meanwhile, Bishops in Boston and Nebraska are investigating possible cases of sexual abuse in Catholic seminaries.

"The report of the Pennsylvania grand jury again illustrates the pain of those who have been victims of the crime of sexual abuse by individual members of our clergy, And by those who shielded abusers and so facilitated an evil that continued for years or even decades, " Cardinal Daniel DiNardo, President of the U. S. Conference of Catholic Bishops and Bishop Timothy L. Doherty, Chair of the bishops' Committee for the Protection of Children and Young People, Said in a statement.

"As a body of bishops, We are shamed by and sorry for the sins and omissions by Catholic priests and Catholic bishops. "

DiNardo and Doherty noted that the grand jury's report spans 70 years, And many of the abuse accusations were made before 2002, When the bishops adopted new policies. The policies, Known as the Dallas Charter, After the city in which they were adopted, Have been revised in 2011 and 2018. The charter, The bishops said, "commits us to respond promptly and compassionately to victims, Report the abuse of minors, Remove offenders and take ongoing action to prevent abuse. "

For weeks, Many Catholics in the United States had been warily waiting for the Pennsylvania grand jury's report, Especially as bishops in the state began publicly releasing the names of accused clergy in an apparent attempt to preempt some of the report's findings.

In a statement on Monday before the report was published, Cardinal Donald Wuerl, The former Bishop of Pittsburgh who now heads the Archdiocese of Washington, Said the report "will be a reminder of the grave failings that the church must acknowledge and for which it must seek forgiveness. "

"We are now in the midst of a new era where our communal bonds of trust are once again being tested by the sin of abuse. "

Delays in publication
Court action had delayed the report's publication. A number of individuals named in the report claimed that its findings were false or misleading, That they were denied due process of law and that its release would impair their reputations.

On July 27, The Pennsylvania Supreme Court ordered the grand jury report to be released by 2 p. M. August 14 with redactions in sections where litigation was ongoing.
State Attorney General Josh Shapiro had written to Pope Francis on July 25, Requesting that the Pontiff direct church leaders to stop "efforts to silence the survivors. "

"A comprehensive investigation by the Office of Attorney General found widespread sexual abuse of children and a systematic coverup by leaders of the Catholic Church, " Shapiro said in his letter. "Last month I planned to release the findings of our investigation. As I prepared to do so, Anonymous petitioners implicated in this report went to court to stop me and silence the victims. . . "

Shapiro later issued a statement welcoming the state Supreme Court's decision to allow the report's release.

"Our fear throughout this process has been that the entire grand jury report would be shelved and victims' truth would be silenced, " Shapiro said. "Today's order ensures that will not be the case -- the redacted report on widespread sexual abuse and cover up within the Catholic Church will be released. "

"I will continue to fight to ensure every single victim is heard and every priest, Bishop and church official is held accountable for their abhorrent conduct. No one victim's truth is any less important than another and no one's criminal conduct any less loathsome. "

Harrisburg abuse list
On August 1, The leader of one of the largest Roman Catholic dioceses in Pennsylvania released a list identifying 71 priests, Deacons and seminarians accused of "substantiated" sexual misconduct over the past seven decades.

Bishop Ronald Gainer of the Harrisburg Diocese also issued an apology on behalf of the religious community.

"That conduct has left a legacy of pain and sorrow that is still being felt, " he wrote. "I apologize for these actions. "

While most men on the Harrisburg list are accused of sexually abusing children, Others were investigated for inappropriate behavior, Such as kissing or inappropriately communicating with a minor, Gainer wrote. Others were accused of viewing or possessing child pornography.

The list did not say how the diocese handled most of the accusations and did not give the men's current whereabouts, Though a few cases that were forwarded to civil authorities were more detailed.

(Out of space with only one more paragraph to go. )

RULES: Prove that these pieces of crap supposed men of god priests are worth a damn.


This is a horrible thing that has happened. Obviously you are anti-religion because of this happening. I am a Christian and the reason why this is happening is because the Catholic Church does not stand with Christ. God does not approve of the Catholic Church for they have corrupted His Word. The Catholic Church is not the Church of God and the pope is not directly from Peter. The Catholic Church is also not the oldest Christian religion.
Debate Round No. 1


People like you are really pathetic. 1. You cannot even prove that your god even exists. 2. Since you believe in your god, You believe that your god knowingly created these monsters to do unto these children what they have done otherwise your god is not a god and the priests that have committed these evils have more power than this god of yours to have committed these evils to begin with. And it simply means that your god is not in control of everything, That your god is not in charge of everything and that these priests are - as so is every other evildoer, Also that your god is not all knowing and most certainly is not all powerful, And most certainly does not give a crap at all and loves to watch suffering especially among children - but you have not read your bible at all in which clearly shows in which your god would never use text as a form of communication, The worst form of communication the begin with to not know that your god truly hates children oh yeah - would you like those verses? And it also means that your god is not in any way omnipotent. And it means that your god is most certainly not is any way perfect. Simple. Did you even bother taking the time to think things through? So what is left is that you claim to be a christian. However there is no such a thing as being a christian. You in no possible way follow your christ. Neither does anyone else except for possibly 1, 000 people on this planet. Oh and oh yeah, You cannot even prove that your christ has ever existed also. All you have is your bible. That's not proof of anything. That why these cowardly priests could get away with anything as they could easily hide behind YOUR shield of religion.
3. And how dare you invent an excuse for your catholic church when you know 0% of nothing about it. There's at least 25, 000 denominations of christianity alone! So how can there be any consensuses whatsoever? Certainly not by you.


1. Do you have evidence for this claim (that "God does not exist"), Or is it simply a blind faith? In order to know for certain
that God does not exist, You would have to know everything about the universe; otherwise, How could you be sure that God is not found in some area of the universe that you have not explored? And you"d also have to know about everything that is potentially beyond the universe " otherwise, How could you know that God is not found "outside" the physical universe? You"d have to know absolutely everything about everything in order to know that there is no God: in which case you would be
omniscient " one of the aspects of deity. So you would essentially have to be God in order to know that there is no God " in which case God does exist. This is yet one more example of the fact that atheists are irrational; they just don"t think things through. Their beliefs are arbitrary (without logical justification).
2. What the priests did is totally inconsistent with the morality a Christian professes to hold dear and it should be condemned.
The usual attempt at a logical argument fails. It goes back to the pagan Greek philosopher Epicurus (341"270 BC), Who was cited by the early Christian apologist Lactantius (AD 240"320)26 then used by the Scottish "Enlightenment" skeptic David Hume (1711"1776). In schematic form, The argument could be written thus:

If God exists, Then God is all-powerful, All-knowing, And morally perfect.
If God is all-powerful, Then He has the power to eliminate all evil.
If God is all-knowing, Then He knows when evil exists.
If God is morally perfect, Then He has the desire to eliminate all evil.
Evil exists.
If evil exists and God exists, Then either God doesn"t have the power to eliminate all evil, Or doesn"t know when evil exists, Or doesn"t have the desire to eliminate all evil.
Therefore, God doesn"t exist.
The first premise describes the Judeo-Christian God as revealed in the Bible. Premises 2"4 are plausibly held to be what the Judeo-Christian God would do with such attributes.

The first two are held to be the Judeo-Christian premises, While #5 is indisputable (although only truly justifiable under a Judeo-Christian world view). So antitheists draw the conclusion that God cannot have the attributes that the Bible reveals about Him (#6), And conclude that such a God doesn"t exist (#7).

Some theistic philosophers try to retreat on #1, By denying that God is all powerful, Such as "open theism" and "process theology". But this is not the true God of the Bible.

However, Christian philosophers have long argued that Premise 4 should be extended to:

4R42;. If God is morally perfect, Then He has the desire to eliminate all evil"unless He has a good reason for allowing it.

Then there is no incompatibility with #5. Since no antitheist can show that there is no possible good reason for allowing evil, Since that would be a universal negative, The argument collapses as logical disproof of theism. This was expressed in a wonderful book Dr A. E. Wilder-Smith (1915"1995): "This is how God triumphs over evil"not by "stopping" it, But by using it to His greater glory. "27 Later, We see some biblical reasons why God is permitting suffering.

Indeed, Lactantius used much the same argument against Epicurus himself. Before that, We will argue that one good reason for God"s allowing evil in the world today is a just judgment resulting from the man"s sin (see Death and suffering is the penalty for sin).

Apologists have also long pointed out that the argument doesn"t work for another reason. The existence of evil now would be incompatible with #4 only if it read:

4R43;. If God is morally perfect, Then He has the desire to eliminate all evil immediately.

But is this really so? As will be shown (and was well explained by Daniel Defoe), For God to get rid of evil immediately, He would need to destroy all of us!

With this understanding, We can correct #5 to:

5R42;. Evil exists for now but will one day be destroyed (as the Bible says); or God has not got rid of evil"yet!

1, 4/4R42; and 5R42; are certainly compatible.

This is enough to show that atheists lack a logical case against God. But it is still important to go further and explain where evil came from, Why He allowed it, And what He is doing about it"and has already done about it.

God originally created a perfect world, Described by God as "very good" (Genesis 1:31). So when God created moral beings, There was no actual evil. In fact, Evil is not a "thing" in itself, Even though it is real. Rather, Evil is the privation of some good that something ought to have, As Augustine pointed out. Considering a moral evil like murder, This is a removal of a "good" human life. Adultery is a privation of a good marriage. Good is fundamental and can exist in itself; evil cannot exist in itself. Evil is always a parasite on good.

At the same time that God judged sin with death, He withdrew some of His sustaining power. Everything is running down because of sin. God has given us a taste of life without Him"a world full of violence, Death, Suffering, And disease. If God withdrew all of His sustaining power, The creation would cease to exist. Colossians 1:16"17 tells us that all things are held together, Right now, By the power of the Creator, The Lord Jesus Christ (cf. Hebrews 1:3). However, In one sense He is not holding it together perfectly, As He is deliberately letting things fall apart to give us a taste of what life is like without God. In other words, God is allowing us to experience what we wanted"life without God (cf. Romans 1:18"32).

As far as a Christ that existed, As far as we know, The first author outside the church to mention Jesus is the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, Who wrote a history of Judaism around AD93. He has two references to Jesus. One of these is controversial because it is thought to be corrupted by Christian scribes (probably turning Josephus"s negative account into a more positive one), But the other is not suspicious " a reference to James, The brother of "Jesus, The so-called Christ".
About 20 years after Josephus we have the Roman politicians Pliny and Tacitus, Who held some of the highest offices of state at the beginning of the second century AD. From Tacitus we learn that Jesus was executed while Pontius Pilate was the Roman prefect in charge of Judaea (AD26-36) and Tiberius was emperor (AD14-37) " reports that fit with the timeframe of the gospels. Pliny contributes the information that, Where he was governor in northern Turkey, Christians worshipped Christ as a god. Neither of them liked Christians " Pliny writes of their "pig-headed obstinacy" and Tacitus calls their religion a destructive superstition.

I know a lot about Catholicism. They say salvation is by doing good. When the Bible says it is by faith and repentance. The Catholics baptize babies for salvation, But babies cannot understand salvation so when they die they go to heaven without baptism. Nowhere in the Bible will you see baptism of babies. Catholics say Mary was the mother of God and perfect yet she said in the Bible that she needed a Savior. There are many other doctrines the Catholics teach that are not Biblical.
Debate Round No. 2


OK it is always up to you, No exceptions for you to prove that your god exists. None. Why? Because your god has never been proven to exist. Extraordinary circumstances requires extraordinary evidence. And regardless you have no evidence for this god of YOURS to begin with. Now we"re getting off of topic here, But if you really want to be humiliated, Degraded and dehumanized, It will not be a problem. That is of course if you have any intelligence whatsoever and if you know your bible.

Ok woah what happened to your formatting? It is super hard to read. I will read it this one time. After that forget it.

"How could you be sure that God is not found in some area of the universe that you have not explored? " OK you want to go down that avenue? NP. This means that YOUR god has created roughly 200 billion black holes + a whole lot more. It is estimated that there are 200 billion galaxies in this universe (space. Com May 19 2018) and it is also known that in the centers of each galaxy is a supermassive black hole. There has not even been 200 billion people on planet earth, Not ever since the beginning of time all the way up until now, Not even close. So you god cares more, By far for black holes - super weapons of mass destruction. Way to go god! Not only that but black holes are what controls galaxy's. They have that power to control how they spin and move. Yes, Every galaxy known, Unless there has been a collision, Is spiral in shape and that is special thanks to a black hole at its center. So even better is you have these super weapons of mass destruction, And yet you have these awesome power of control that galaxies needs to survive. Wow a contradiction, Just like what your bible has a good 1, 000 or so as well as inconsistencies making it truly unreadable. That"s strike 1. 2 more of those and I will easily end this debate.

"And you"d also have to know about everything that is potentially beyond the universe "" Ahhhhhhhhh see here atheists and scientists and those who do not believe in YOUR god can say "I don"t know" when we don"t know something. You as supposed christians do not have that opportunity because dare your god be imperfect? Of course not. That really should be strike 2. I"ll let that one slide. So we can ex out a lot of what your paragraph has said. But I have no idea where you ended your paragraph.

2. No I"m not going to bite into that one because it doesn"t have anything to do with anything and it really is omg ever so well worn. AND to make things even worse for you your god freely admitted HE IS EVIL so that out trumps everything you"ve stated in regards to the subject"
god has freely admitted in his bible numerous times that he IS evil IS 45:7, 2 SAM 12: 11-14 sick and disgusting, EX 32:14, 1 KS 1 22: 22-23, 2 CR 18:22, JM 19:3, JM 19:15, JM 23:12, AM 3:6, DT 30:15, 2 KS 22:16, JU 9:23, PV 15:3
And to make matters even worse for you to show you why YOUR god would NEVER use text as a form of communication here"s a prime example since we are touching on it"
KJV EX 32:14 " I form the light, And create darkness: I make peace, And create evil: I the Lord do all these things. "
NIV "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, The Lord, Do all these things. "
NLT "I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, The Lord, Am the one who does these things. "
Now the words "evil", "disaster" and "bad" have 0% of nothing to do with each other. Nada, Ziltch. They deliver a completely and totally different message. They words are not even related as far as synonyms go. This kind of s--t happens all the time all over your bible. Now whoever interprets for your bible sure does a miserable job at lot. And who are these guys? Do you think your god would APPROVE OF THESE GUYS GETTING WHAT HE SAYS WRONG AND with these glaring errors?
Taken from The dossier of Reason "I. Which Bible?
A. Over 450 English versions of the bible
B. All are translated using different methods and from entirely different manuscripts
C. Thousands of manuscripts disagreeing with each other wildly in what verses and even books they contain, And how those verses read.
D. Different translations teach entirely different things in places, Some often leaving out entire chapters and verses or containing footnotes warning of possible error due to uncertainty about the reliability of the numerous manuscripts.
II. Availability - current estimate is that 2, 251 languages, Representing 193 million people, Lack a Bible translation
So you have no idea, None if you are interpreting correctly.

"This is enough to show that atheists lack a logical case against God. " OKEYYYYY That"s an automatic strike 2. It really should be strike 3. You don"t even know how atheists think, Feel, Talk, Eat, Breathe, Act. Tell yah what, Why don"t you look up the word "atheist" up. Yeah that"s all it is. You see, There"s no defining book on what an atheist is. There"s no action, No mood, No scientific belief. Each atheist is his own individual. Got it? Here"s a youtube video to help you" Reasons for accepting atheism" | Stefan - Brooklyn, NY | Atheist Experience #668

"But it is still important to go further and explain where evil came from, Why He allowed it, " Um no there is no reasoning AT ALL. None. I'm stopping you dead in your tracks. See you christians have this nasty habit of not understanding that this god of YOURS could have easily started off with peace, Love, Harmony, Care. Kindness, Etc etc etc. AND KEPT IT. Nah this god of YOURS chose, By his own frailties and admissions "evil, Anger, Wrath, Rage, Fury, Vengeance, Jealousy" Just what any supreme deity needs to chokehold his daily routine and carry with him as baggage emotions - RIGHT? Jealousy? Jealousy is nothing but anger as disguised fear. Even worse is according to you is the god guy neatly packaged those emotions and sent them down to man. Oh real cute. This way man could learn to hate. Great going god. Great going you the true idiot for worshiping a maggot like that with at least 1 billion dead on the battlefields alone all in his supposed "good" name ever since his inception. Thankfully there are billions that disagree. That my friend is a super easy strike 3. You nor anyone can offer an intelligent counter. Bye.


First of all the evidence of their being no God is on you. You cannot prove God doesn"t exist. However, Through laws of logic, Uniformity of nature and absolute morality we can see that it is only with a God these things can be possible. As for galaxies only being spiral that is not true there are also elliptical and irregular.

As Christians we don"t know everything about the universe, But We can say that the uniformity of nature will be found in the whole universe and uniformity of nature shows there is a God.

In all you verses God is punishing evil with destruction. The Israelites were sacrificing their children and Breaking all kinds of His laws that they had agreed to obey. God is punishing a nation who had agreed to follow His law, But they have turned away and disobeyed Him. If you have a problem with Him being unjust it is up to you to prove it.

These problems of verses that you mention is not God"s fault but mans. God never makes mistakes, But man does. However, The Bible has no spiritual contradictions. The way to find the correct Bible is a long study which you could find on the internet, But I will not discuss it because It would take a lot of words and you are not interested.

One of the problems you are going to @257;nd when you examine atheism (or any non-biblical worldview) from a rational perspective is that there is no foundation for making any moral claims whatsoever. That is, As a non-Christian, You cannot rationally claim that anything is an atrocity, Or that anyone has ever done anything wrong. You can certainly say that the biblical God has done things that displease you, But the concepts of "right" and "wrong" are meaningless in an atheistic universe because there can be no objective universal standard " only personal, Subjective opinions.

You still have not been able to give a logical case against God.

God did not kill billions on battlefields. The only people He waged war against was the thousands of Canaanites. If the you really want to show concern for murder, You could start with all those murdered by atheistic/evolutionary regimes: 77 million in Communist China, 62 million in the Soviet Gulag State, 21 million non-battle killings by the Nazis, 2 million murdered in the Khmer Rouge killing fields. Also, The millions of could be children through abortion.

Apparently, You are not interested in knowing what Christians believe or what the Bible says where evil came from. If you do I suggest you read my argument above closely about evil and tell me where you disagree.
Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
217 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by mosc 3 years ago
@jrardin12, You have my vote!
Posted by jrardin12 3 years ago
Could backwardseden please fill something out so people can vote? I don't care if he just writes in hi.
Posted by mosc 3 years ago
backwardseden - always talks about himself and his bloated self opinions wherein he stutters continuously I i I i I i I i juk.
Posted by mosc 3 years ago
C/P "However, You are not taking in consideration that the law is divided in three parts. 1. Moral law which never change (ten commandments). 2. Civil law which is how Israel is to execute the moral law (stoning a child for disobedience). 3. Ceremonial law which involves sacrifices. The ten commandments are for all people on earth to obey no matter what. The civil laws where for the Israelites only. The ceremonial laws were fulfilled by Jesus. "

Bunk. Goyim have never accepted the revelation of the Torah at Sinai. This absurd perversion of 10 commandments. The construction of the Tabernacle of the Congregation was not a commandment? The commandments of the day of Atonement and the festival of tabernacles was not a commandment?

Civil Law, Stoning a rebellious child? Bunk This too a commandment on par with keeping Shabbot which Xtians do not obey. The Torah commands do not do work on Shabbot. What defines the meaning of work? Laws require interpretation. Just ask the Supreme Court which interprets the US Constitution.

Ceremonial laws. . . Sacrifices? Jews have not observed sacrifices for over 2000 years. Tell me how a sacrifice does not equal to making a bar BQ to heaven? You have not the slightest clue what a korban/sacrifice means.
Posted by mosc 3 years ago
@ jrardin12

Excuse me, I thought it obvious that the all knowing reference referred to backwardseden. Please accept my apologies and lack of clarity.
Posted by 32doni32nido32 3 years ago

And just how many questions did you ask during our debate?
Compare that to how many questions I asked.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
none which laws are being thus dumped from the OT into the new. But then again none of them were. You just went on and on and on and on and you have it within you to be a complete leotard cabbage batbrain and not pay attention to your god. Proof of that you didn't even pay attention to YOUR god's perfect word as you tried to circumvent it. That's truly deplorable and can only show that you cannot possibly be taken seriously. How can you when you deliberately go out of your way to spit on your god? You only pay attention to what you want as to how you want for how it suits you best for in which you are the perfect example as to why the christian church is in such disarray. How can there be with no consensus in over 25, 000 denomination in each asking a different belief - otherwise there wouldn't be yet another denomination. Have fun and look it up. Also have fun and look up that atheism is doing just fine and has doubled since 2007. Atheism has morals. It doesn't ask you to believe in ANYTHING other than there is no god. That's what an atheist is and nothing else.
I also truly hate it when people like you MUST invent excuses and flat out lie for something in which they clearly know nothing about. You said "Jesus was showing that God allowed them to do good on the Sabboth" (again what is a sabboth"? ) OK sabbath. And you have proof of this how? Did you bother reading EX 31:14, NU 15: 32-36? WHY NO YOU F--KING DIDN'T. You just rambled on and on and on. Why don't you read them especially where god demands the execution for anyone working on the sabbath with EX 31:14 and the have a lookie at NU 15: 32-36 where god and moses collaborated to murder someone for gathering sticks on the sabbath. So what's good for the goose is not good for the gander AND ACCORDING TO YOU it proves that YOUR god changed his mind. One day he's thinking its a pretty good idea to murder people on the sabbath, Then one day not. Can you dig your grave any deeper? Your next post will be ignored.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
@jrardin12 - You have got to be, Clearly without question and like I said I have talked with roughly roughly 22, 000 in my life on this very subject.
Let's be real honest here, Either you are a complete idiot and a moron, Or you cannot possibly be a day over 14. Now only that but you got caught in a flat out lie and I never, Not for a single moments thought do I ---ever--- for any reason deal with liars. You state in your profile that you are 22 but you have been reading the bible for 18 years. Sorry the math doesn't work because in no possible way are you anywhere close to the genius level. To prove it what on earth is a "Sabboth? You repeated its spelling like a complete baby burping on his bib.
Now I am going to even degrade, Dehumanize and belittle you even further and you flat out deserve it. WHO CAME UP WITH THE LAW? See you cannot even answer it. WHAT DOES THE LAW ENCOMPASS? Again you do not even know as you have to lie about it. WHEN WAS IT CREATED? See you don't even know. WHO APPROVED IT? Again you don't even know. All of those questions you neatly ducked and evaded because you don't have the foggiest idea. Oh could it be by gum that its none of them are listed in YOUR bible because they are not. "However, You are not taking in consideration that the law is divided in three parts" has nothing to do with those questions. And "the law is not divided into three parts because it does not exist if someone did not come up with it, Namely god himself in which he did not. Talking to you is like talking to a grease hammer chimp. "Moral law. . . " Oh that's a good one. Since when has your religion ---ever--- been moral? Btw, The 10 commandments did change. You might want to check that one in your brain as your christ worked on the sabbath, So that commandment of death and keeping the sabbath holy was thus desecrated and dumped. Oh and oh yeah there's only 7 christian commandments. Neat huh? So you go on yammering about "laws" plural. And you have no idea,
Posted by jrardin12 3 years ago
Again, You are not asking questions you are just stating your opinion. An open minded person asks questions.
Posted by jrardin12 3 years ago
However, You are not taking in consideration that the law is divided in three parts. 1. Moral law which never change (ten commandments). 2. Civil law which is how Israel is to execute the moral law (stoning a child for disobedience). 3. Ceremonial law which involves sacrifices.

The ten commandments are for all people on earth to obey no matter what. The civil laws where for the Israelites only. The ceremonial laws were fulfilled by Jesus.

When you talk about Jesus healing on the Sabboth, Jesus was showing that God allowed them to do good on the Sabboth. They were not allowed to work, But they were allowed to do good. Therefore the Pharisees were adding to the law, Just like most of religions do.
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