The Instigator
Kvng_8
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points
The Contender
omar2345
Pro (for)
Losing
1 Points

Should Anime Be Watched In Sub Instead Of Dub?

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
Kvng_8
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/14/2018 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,966 times Debate No: 118986
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (101)
Votes (1)

 

Kvng_8

Con

Greetings.
Thanks for accepting this debate. Please enlighten me on your side as well.

This seems to be an ongoing issue/debate that will never end. I'm going to give my ultimate take on it. Looking at every aspect down to the last detail. Hopefully this opens up someone's eyes, Especially someone who is a sub only person and who is anti-dub. I grew up watching Naruto in dub, That was my first anime that I officially got into. On TV, They showed Naruto in English. So naturally, Every other anime I watched in English since it is my native language. Just as I watch anime in English, For me, It is no different for movies or regular TV shows, For example, A sitcom. If you are going to a movie theater, The movie will be in English, Right? Well for me, Anime is no different. I'm watching it in English, Simply put.
~
This is my theory. Please correct me if I'm wrong: There are people who grew up watching anime in dub (like myself) so they will be used to it and naturally watch other anime in dub. The same goes for people who may have grew up watching anime in sub so of course they are going to be used to it as well. If they watch an anime in dub they are going to feel weird watching it and it won't feel right or normal. My theory leads up to these two following paragraphs.

1. I never understood the whole "Dub is so bad" or "Dub is trash" I couldn't fathom my head around it because how could someone say something like that especially if it's your native language? Meaning a language that you speak and understand? I have watched pretty much everything in dub, And they sound fine to me. So what sounds good to me, May sound bad to a person who prefers sub. (Is that right? )

2. The golden question - "Sub vs Dub, Which do you prefer? " It was never a preference for me. How is preference even being brought up? I speak English so I'm going to watch any form of entertainment in English. People who are sub only AND bashes people who watch dub act like it's so taboo to watch something that's in your native language. I also never understood the "dub ruins the experience" thing. I connect with characters more emotionally in English since I can comprehend what's being said.
~
I feel like you shouldn't watch it in sub just because it's anime. A person once told me that I'm not a real anime fan if I watch anime dubbed instead subbed, Which I find ridiculous. Let people like what they like whether it be sub or dub. Even sub bias people and people who are strictly sub admit that there are great dubs out there that excel their original/sub counterparts. People for the most part love to say dub is bad just to say it and just to hate. It's a shame how I'm even hesitant of telling people that I watch dub because they will more than likely overreact like it's the end of the world just because they watch sub. Just as people say dubs are bad, There are also bad subs. For example I've heard from many people that they don't like the main character's Japanese voice from Black Clover at all.
~
I do in fact watch sub sometimes, I am used to it and I'll watch/deal with sub if I have to. Overall I've seen 30+ anime and 99% of them I've seen in dub of course. The only series I've seen in sub are: Food wars, Attack on Titan (Season 2), Inuyashiki, Boruto (up to date), Sword Art Online (Season 3), I finished the rest of Naruto Shippuden in sub, And I'm watching One piece in sub (up to date). I watched Naruto & One piece dubbed mostly, But I reached up to date for them in dub so I switched to the sub since dub updates take forever.

If it's a long running series such as Naruto, One piece, Hunter x Hunter, Or Bleach I'm definitely not watching it in sub. I'd rather watch a short series that's 12 or 24 episodes long in sub, Since it's not an abundant amount of episodes.

If a short series is amazing and one that's been recommended to me which happens to be a sub-only series, Then I'll watch it.
~
I actually enjoy sub at times. I will list my pros and cons regarding sub. I won't be completely bias.

Pros:

I do give credit where credit is due. The voice actors are amazing and they do convey great emotion, And I do appreciate the work put in for that. I even have a few favorite Japanese VA's: Sho Hayami (Aizen x Bleach | Azami x Food Wars) and Hiroshi Kamiya (Trafalgar Law x One Piece | Levi x AOT)

Cons: (Why I am a dub person)

1. I like watching anime and knowing what is being said at the same time, Rather than having to keep looking down to read. I don't want to read while being entertained. At times, You tend to miss out on the visuals (for example, A series with lots of action will have intense fight scenes) I'm a visual person, I like to focus on the art style and animation only. Although I am a fast reader and everything, Sub can still be annoying.

2. Dub is simply easier to watch.

3. Sometimes the subtitles can pop up and disappear TOO fast, So you'd either have to pause or rewind to read what you missed which is annoying. Even if you are a fast reader, The subs can pop up for about 1 second and it's a very long sentence which isn't enough time to read.

4. It's a pain if two characters are talking at the same time and two different subtitles display on the screen representing what each character is saying. Reading two subtitles at the same time isn't the easiest thing to do, It gets confusing so you may have to stop and read them which for me personally throws me for a loop.

5. Perhaps this isn't a big issue but there are typos sometimes. Simple typos, Yes - where you will still know what the word is but even so, I like things neat and in order and I have OCD, So a typo tends to slightly throw me off and annoy me a bit.

6. This isn't a big issue as well but subtitles may not show up while a character is talking. A rare case I assume because I haven't seen it happen at all, But I witnessed it happen first hand, Particularly in One Piece. I don't know the exact episode but it happened during the Dressrosa arc. Once that moment happened, I assume what the character was saying or what they were talking about given the dialogue beforehand. Even so, That throws me off, And it could very well throw other people off as well. Some more than others but nevertheless. Yes, I know and understand that mistakes happen, But still.

7. Translations can (sometimes) suck compared to the dub. There are many cases and examples, Specifically in Naruto part 1. I won't go into each and every example as I don't remember them but even Shikamaru's "what a drag" in the sub turns into "utterly bothersome" I remember seeing that the very first time Shikamaru says that. Shikamaru's "what a drag" is more iconic. The more he said "what a drag" in the sub, It eventually turns into what a drag, But that just shows how dull the translations are.

8. What's said in the dub can sometimes be clearer, Funnier and overall just sounds better than in the sub. Prime example, Recently on Attack on Titan season 3 episode 11, Sasha told a gentleman at the table about a girl liking him: "Because she is a thirsty girl and she thinks you're a tall glass of water. " in the dub, Whereas in the sub she says "Why? 'Cuz you two are. . . You know? ". Now which one is funnier? That's my point right there. That was dull and boring compared to what she said in the dub.
~
With all that being said, I am in fact a real anime fan and I appreciate anime. I just like to watch it in the language that I speak. Not in Japanese with subtitles.
~
Those are the reasons why I never find the enjoyment or the appeal to sub. I personally don't find it fun to watch. I'm in no way shape or form bashing sub or bashing people who watch sub at all. As I have mentioned I enjoy sub sometimes. I'm just a dub person overall. We all have our preferences and opinions. I just had to voice mine and put my take on it. At the end of the day, It's anime. Something we all enjoy, That's all that matters. We should let everyone like what they like.
omar2345

Pro

I have to point out it is based on preference. This can include language. You might be from Japan which most likely view Anime the sub version or the subtitles turned off.

Given the circumstance I would say you would have watched Naruto even if it was Japanese. Reason is it appeal to the younger generation and children to like ninjas. That would be enough incentive to watch consistently when it came.

1. I would say to your first claim that you are missing out the bad audio syncing with the character's mouth movements. This is a problem with all dubs because it was originally made to h e synced with Japanese and then deported to another country with the English language.

2. It is dependant on the dub. More profitable Anime would have a better team doing the English translation. I think as Anime has gained more popularity the English translation have been more effective with portraying how the character would truly speak like envisioned by the writer. This does not however hold up with older Dubs. One such example is the original DBZ dub. Yes tastes are subjective but the source I have provided Krillin sound Italian. As far as I know from what I've seen there is no mention of the character being so I would call that a bad dub.

You don't have to be real Anime fan to watch the sub version but if you understand the language then it is the best experience. The audio is synced more to characters mouths then the dub version. People who say you are not real Anime fan are insecure and cannot think for themselves. If they did they would realise a fan of Anime can watch the Dub version because he is still interested in Anime to watch but it is just in a different way.

Another argument I would point too is that for new Anime it is really likely they would only have a Sub version. This tends to be the case since the companies wait a year or until they have a buyer to house the dub on their platform. This can be Kix with Dragon Ball Z Kai or Crunchyroll with almost every single Anime.

2. Dub is simply easier to watch is not the best argument because if given enough time to adjust you wouldn't find the Sub one less fulfilling to watch.

3. This rarely tends to be the case. I doubt it is a problem with new Anime and old ones might have problems but the ones that I have watched subtitles are there for when they needed to be.

4. Two character argument does not hold up either because you can tell when the argument has changed over because the two characters have different voices. That should be enough to say x is now talking because the voice is different.

5. That can be a problem but if it is readable what more could you ask for? I rather they spend more time on making the art look more impressive or redraft to see if anything can be improved upon.

6. One Piece would likely have this problem since it goes on forever and the producers are more worried about delivering One Piece on time then making sure subtitles are working as they should be. You did say it is rare so they must be doing a good job.

7. I would beg to differ. Japanese translations are not 100% because of words that are not found Japanese but is not found in English. This should also be a rare occurrence because I only heard of one and it was something off topic which was a Japanese chef talking about food and describing it in Japanese and tried to translate it while eating and came up with 2 words. I think Sub do the same but they pick the most relevant word for that scenario.

8. There are differences with the Dub and the Sub. This can be mainly seen if you understand Japanese and English. If you don't understand both saying one is clearer is not giving the other language a fair chance. Sounds better is subjective. Basically a Japanese person would find the Sub sounds better and you find the dub to sound better.

It is okay to not like the sub version. It is dependant on the individual to pick the one that suits them. I do not condone bashing people who watched dubs and also people who bash subs too. There are extremes to every point of view. It is best to just ignore them.

"We should let everyone like what they like. "- This is already the case. I do not condone people who bash people's watching habits but it does not mean I want to ban them or censor them. For me they have a right to their opinion and I have a right to say how stupid they are.

Source: https://m. Youtube. Com/watch? V=CwwTD4ql9ak
Debate Round No. 1
Kvng_8

Con

1. I completely agree with the lip sync part.

"Another argument I would point too is that for new Anime it is really likely they would only have a Sub version. This tends to be the case since the companies wait a year or until they have a buyer to house the dub on their platform. This can be Kix with Dragon Ball Z Kai or Crunchyroll with almost every single Anime. " - I agree with this as well.

4. No, Two characters that are talking especially in sub (for the most part) are hard to tell apart lol that's the thing. They both sound the same sometimes. If they are characters you know well and familiar with, Then that's not the case. But if it's new characters that you haven't met before then that is the case (harder to tell with 2 male characters). Thanks for bringing that up, In a way that kind of elevated my point. I'm not saying this always happens but I have witnessed this numerous of times. (Only point of yours that I disagree with)

8. Whatever.

I agree/indifferent to most of everything you have said.

Thanks for accepting the debate. This is now over, As I have lost interest to this debate due to your comment of "Naruto and AOT aren't that good" let's go ahead and debate about that since that's what you want to do. Keep in mind, Had you not commented at all and just gave me your response, My reply above would have still been the exact same.

This debate is now over.
omar2345

Pro

You start off and list the 'facts'.
Debate Round No. 2
Kvng_8

Con

To clear up some things for everyone viewing, I shall explain why this is now a new debate:

Let me start this off by saying you know exactly what you're doing. Since you act like you don't know, I'll give a run down. Out of my whole opening statement regarding my take on me being a dub person, Omar2345 commented saying he can't take up this debate because he said he prefers the dub. That is proof. Go look at it.

Omar, You could have just agreed with me and commented saying WHY you're a dub person and staying on the same subject instead of giving your opinion on Naruto and Attack on Titan. I never asked anyone for that & that was not part of the debate.

You then commented a second time by saying "By the way Naruto, Attack on Titan are not that good. " provoking a different debate immaturely. I then responded to you saying how much I love Naruto. I also said "but everyone has their own opinions but that isn't the point of the debate" (meaning the debate was about "Should Anime Be Watched In Sub Instead Of Dub? ") After you seen me say that, You took the opportunity to get me to defend Naruto because you now know that I am a Naruto fan and you wanted to stir the pot.

Contradicting number 1 - You said these two things that opposed each other. "So is this debate about you defending Naruto? " "Anyway I know this was not part of the debate. "

Contradicting number 2 - So after you added more fuel to the fire after saying this comment: "Parting gift the video that will make you realise how bad Naruto is: (delete the gaps in the URL)
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=v2tkz92eG_E" (that was very sly and sarcastic and you were still insisting on making this a new debate trying to get me to defend Naruto) After you said that, Then all of a sudden you say you're on the Sub side? How interesting.

First it was Naruto is not that good (Okay, Cool. What I got from that is you think Naruto is good or alright and you're not the biggest fan of it. ) But it went from that to you saying how Naruto is bad? You didn't only say "Naruto is not that good. " You also said Naruto is bad based off of a video. Seriously?

All of that is PROOF that you wanted to change the debate. You were just pushing my buttons. I never assumed your intentions. Everything you've shown and everything I just said was proof that you weren't interested in this first debate that I created.

From the very beginning I literally said "everyone has their own opinion" I don't care about your opinion on Naruto, It's just the way you went about it. You saying that you prefer dub FIRST and then downplaying Naruto is also proof enough that you weren't interested in this debate in the first place, You're more interested and fixated over Naruto.

This debate: "Should Anime Be Watched In Sub Instead Of Dub? " is over since me and omar has come to a common ground in Round 2. My very first comment won anyway and was way more compelling and convincing. We will now debate about Naruto. I am Pro (for) "Naruto" and he is Con (against) "Naruto"

I assume you will list the cons about Naruto. Since YOU wanted this debate (not me) I will let you make your opening argument first, So I can rip you apart. I already told you "I don't play when it comes to Naruto so it would be wise to steer away from this current topic you're trying to get at" now you've crossed that line.

I also said "I also haven't seen/unfamiliar with the other anime you've mentioned so it wouldn't be possible for me to say how Naruto is better, Because I haven't seen them. " So keep that in mind. This won't be about comparing other series to Naruto, It will be about Naruto only. I could give you a list of anime I have seen if you are interested in comparing other series to Naruto, That way I can properly compare them right back.

But to give you a few examples, I have seen few of the big anime: One Piece, Bleach, And I'm halfway done with Hunter x Hunter.

Overall my goal is to just ONLY discuss how Naruto is one of the G. O. A. Ts.

You can now begin your argument.
omar2345

Pro

subject instead of giving your opinion on Naruto and Attack on Titan. I never asked anyone for that & that was not part of the debate. - You never asked for it but was the comments public and was I allowed to say anything I want? I gave my opinion if you did not like don't reply or acknowledge or maybe why I think that.


You took the opportunity to get me to defend Naruto because you now know that I am a Naruto fan and you wanted to stir the pot- An assumption. I did not make you doing anything. It was your choice to defend Naruto. I did not force you. Even though you are a Naruto fan you could've brushed it off as someone's opinion but you didn't took it seriously like a religion. Is Naruto a religion to you? Am I blaspheming Naruto?

"So is this debate about you defending Naruto? " "Anyway I know this was not part of the debate. "- Can I not change my mind or realise afterwards that I made a mistake? I added that in since it was not a debate and I had no clue what you wanted to talk about.

Parting gift the video that will make you realise how bad Naruto is:- Can you not take a joke. So my assumption are correct. Naruto is a religion to you and I am blaspheming. What is my punishment? Watching Naruto I am guessing.


that was very sly and sarcastic and you were still insisting on making this a new debate trying to get me to defend Naruto- Didn't "parting gift" not imply that I would not extend the conversation any further?

Then all of a sudden you say you're on the Sub side? - If you looked at my older debate. Does a God exist? (https://www. Debate. Org/debates/Does-a-God-exist/10/) I was playing Devil's advocate. If I am able to play a role that I do not agree with, Why can't I do it again?

First it was Naruto is not that good (Okay, Cool. What I got from that is you think Naruto is good or alright and you're not the biggest fan of it. ) But it went from that to you saying how Naruto is bad? You didn't only say "Naruto is not that good. " You also said Naruto is bad based off of a video. Seriously? - Okay what I was trying to say that. Naruto is not a good show. Not that good can mean bad. I said not that good because from your opinion you said it was your favourite. I am assuming what you liked about it which I think was the combat. To me other shows can deliver on the combat with more fleshed out characters and a better story to follow without filler.

All of that is PROOF that you wanted to change the debate. - Did I say change this debate? Do you think I would have said that in my Round 1 if I wanted to do so?

You were just pushing my buttons. - Is this why you wanted to debate it becuase i pushed your buttons?

I never assumed your intentions. Everything you've shown and everything I just said was proof that you weren't interested in this first debate that I created. - I highly doubt you didn't. What was my Round 1 about? I took your arguments and rebutted them. Did I once mention in this debate that I wanted to debate about Naruto?


I don't care about your opinion on Naruto, It's just the way you went about it. You saying that you prefer dub FIRST and then downplaying Naruto is also proof enough that you weren't interested in this debate in the first place, You're more interested and fixated over Naruto. - If I was not interested why do you think I accepted the debate? The way I went about it is fine to me but to you, You found it difficult to comprehend that someone would downplay Naruto and not think it is a good show. Surely you understand this is my opinion and still you think that no one in the world could possibly downplay Naruto? You really like Naruto.

My very first comment won anyway and was way more compelling and convincing. -I wanted to carry on with this debate but you did not refutt my arguments. You were the one who found the common ground. I went along with because I assumed you gave up instead of going by what this debate is about Dub or Sub.

I assume you will list the cons about Naruto. Since YOU wanted this debate (not me) I will let you make your opening argument first, So I can rip you apart. I already told you "I don't play when it comes to Naruto so it would be wise to steer away from this current topic you're trying to get at" now you've crossed that line. - You are taking this to heart. Can I have an opinion? Are you not going to get offended over my opinion? I am not like you if you say my favourite show is bad. Then I would ask why. If I say your stance is sufficient I move on with my day. About Naruto I will be listing what I don't like. You were supposed to speak about how much you like Naruto so I have something to work with but you didn't instead you asked me to give an opening argument against Naruto.

I also said "I also haven't seen/unfamiliar with the other anime you've mentioned so it wouldn't be possible for me to say how Naruto is better, Because I haven't seen them. " So keep that in mind. This won't be about comparing other series to Naruto, It will be about Naruto only. I could give you a list of anime I have seen if you are interested in comparing other series to Naruto, That way I can properly compare them right back. - Don't worry I'll try to stick to Naruto.

But to give you a few examples, I have seen few of the big anime: One Piece, Bleach, And I'm halfway done with Hunter x Hunter. - I have heard of them but never seen them. If my life was more dedicated to Anime I would have watched Hunter x Hunter not One Piece or Bleach.

Begining my argument on Naruto. (This is basically from the video so do not complain because you did not watch it and it is okay to information from a video becuase didn't you watch Naruto or read the Manga of it? ) This is going to be simple straight to the point so that I can get your opinion on it without filling to much of my own.

Naruto, The Self-Made Hypocrite

Series about hardwork overcoming natural gift while also having the main character be the most priveleged child to have ever existed.

The lesson Naruto is trying to preach is that even if you aren't born with amazing gifts. Hard work and ingenuity overcome these things. The series proves the opposite is true.

Naruto is wrong.

At the end of the series Naruto is a living God.

Naruto is super priveleged. The series makes a big deal on how many gifts were given to him as the story goes on. The Nine Tails Fox is one such gift.

Chakra is physical stamina. When Naruto deplete all of his Chakra. NTF gives him more. How much more does he give him? However much the plot needs (Deus Ex Machina). Everyone acts like Naruto is strong but the viewers know the NTF is supplying him with plot convience Chakra. Naruto is not a good fighter without the NTF since he relies on it when he is losing the fight.

Examples: Naruto steal something from the library. Learns the signature move to make the shadow clones. He learnt it in a few minutes. Shadows clones are supposed to be really difficult to create but he creates a lot of them. Why is it difficult? It uses a lot of Chakra. Where does he get all the Chakra? NTF.
Naruto can make Shadow Clones but cannot make normal clones. Shadow clones were invented by the best hokage (Tobirama). Shadow clones are more difficult to make and is only teached to high ranking Ninjas. Naruto basically cheats to make shadow clones but when it comes to his skill alone he cannot even make normal clones.

Naruto is stupid and never studies. At one point he did not even know what Chakra was. Naruto can say he tries really hard but we never really see him trying really hard. The only example was a flashback of him doing crunches but in the same flashback he has a pile of books around him, Trying really hard to use Chakra but he couldn't. He is basically trying really hard by force instead of using his brain. Physical activity is what Naruto is good at.

He wants to be Hokage but does not know the fundamentals of being a Ninja. He is only doing it for the attention. He does not realise he has to do a lot of paperwork when being Hokage and does not realise there are other ways of being the best Ninja apart from being Hokage.

End of the series they lock him up and force him to study. He does not realise Hokage requires to know the fundamentals in order to do your job properly.

Naruto has no skill. He relies on his gifts to do everything (NTF). If he did not have NTF he would have died a lot earlier in the series.

He was born with a kekkei genkai. This is a power that you are born with. This cannot be trained.

He has the ultimate biological privelege in the Universe (Bloodline). He was born better then everyone else.

He is most important person in the history of his village. He also the reincarnation of one of the most importnat person ever lived (Twin sons of the mother of all Ninjas). No one else reincarnated apart from Naruto and Sasuke becuase no one else is important.

Rock Lee vs Sasuke fight. Sasuke tried to use his born talents to try to beat Rock Lee but still loses. The moral of that story was that Rock Lee won because he trains all time and Sasuke relies on his red eyes to win.

Rock Lee is the best character because he is only one that you can point that is hardworking whereas everyone else is born better.

The moral of Naruto. Either you are born better or you are useless in a fight.

Fight 10: Rock Lee vs Gaara. Best fight in the series. Gaara has a sheild which blocks all attacks. He is so gifted he does not even need to move to even throw an attack since the sand does all the work for him. Rock Lee had to damage himself just do stand a chance against Gaara. Rock Lee has enough Chakra to stand against Gaara. Rock Lee almost beats him but did not do enough damage and Gaara finsihed him off by closing his hands. Lee is more relatble in this Arc then any other character in the series. Naruto is supposed to be about hardoword overcoming superior and Rock personifies it. Too bad the actual message of the Anime was a lie.


Don't have space to talk about the Neji fight Oh well. Could have made more points but not enough space.


Debate Round No. 3
Kvng_8

Con

You know good & well when you said "Naruto & AOT are not that good" You were trying to spark another debate. You did it to push my buttons.

No Naruto isn't a religion to me lol and again I don't care about your opinion but for the second time you was really reaching with that comment about "you'll realize how bad Naruto is" and then sending a link. Like really. Come on. It's the way you went about it.

Oh so after I called you out, It's a joke. Nice. That's what they all say.

If you like to play a role that you're really not, Then awesome. Your business.

No, I like Naruto for plenty of other reasons besides the combat. And I knew you would bring up the fillers. I will get to that in my Naruto Analysis.

I highly doubt you didn't. What was my Round 1 about? I took your arguments and rebutted them. Did I once mention in this debate that I wanted to debate about Naruto? - Yeah you finally replied back to the debate pretending to be on the Sub side AFTER you downplayed Naruto in your comments.

Surely you understand this is my opinion and still you think that no one in the world could possibly downplay Naruto? - Again, I don't care about your opinion it's just how you went about it.

I shall add the comment you made "Maybe you know why Naruto is so bad you just don't want nullify it in the brain so that you enjoy the little you can enjoy in Naruto? " - Not quite. Naruto is in fact a masterpiece but it does have it's flaws. I'm not saying Naruto is perfect. Had to just get that out of the way.

There is nothing to carry on about this debate for "Sub/Dub" what I replied to you with was my true response. I agreed with most of everything you said. So there is nothing else to talk about. You want to have this Naruto debate instead, So I'll grant you your wish.

Well I'm going second so deal with it, And you will see facts on how great Naruto is. You caused this debate so I made you go first and put the pressure on you. You can have your opinion for the 10th time. I don't care. I'm moving on with my day as well.

I definitely recommend Hunter x Hunter & Bleach. And why not One piece or Bleach? Bleach is a must watch. I recommend those two before One piece.

Naruto can use more than just shadow clones and Kurama. He has rasengan, Rasenshuriken, Sage Mode. . . List goes on. And he always doesn't rely on the 9 tailed fox power. And about your message that you sent me, Yes Naruto has won a fight before. More than one.

The series discusses Sasuke being born already gifted and talented as an Uchiha. They didn't portray that for Naruto. The series clearly shows that Sasuke is always better than Naruto, At first.

I agree with the Rock Lee stance 100%.

Thanks for saying Gaara vs Lee was the one of the best fights. Shows that you don't hate Naruto THAT much.

And also, I watched some of the video that you sent me. . . So everything I read, I already knew since I seen the video. I only seen about 10 to 11 minutes of the video, I didn't see all of it. So, You basically just copied off of what a Youtuber said. You took his whole stance and approach. Everything I just read came from him. Not you. . . . Yeah nice argument you got there. I shall add that what you wrote - wait no, What the VIDEO of someone else explained, It's more of a symbolic meaning of certain things that he disagreed with. Nothing but symbolic meanings. All he mostly talked about was Naruto, And a few other characters but it isn't discussing the cons as the SHOW Naruto overall. So your case is in fact inaccurate. It isn't even your own opinion. You basically plagiarized.
~
About the video thing, You asked:

"Can a video represent my point of view of Naruto? " No because that's someone else's point of view, Not yours.

You didn't suggest that you wanted to debate about Naruto. If you did, Then you did a very bad job of it.

~

Regarding the video you sent me of "Naruto, The Self-Made Hypocrite"

The beginning of video he literally says "I don't know much about Naruto" that dispels everything right there. Yet he makes a 42 minute video? I'm lost. The video you sent was very confusing, And condescending. I couldn't even go past 11 minutes. He was focusing too much on Naruto the character rather the show as a whole. He couldn't even pronounce certain words correctly. I'm not sure if he was trolling or if he was serious. I got bored watching and I gave up. His point wasn't leading anywhere. It was more of a troll video than a serious video, Because of the word choices, Such as "big red dog" instead of Kurama.

There's plenty videos on why Naruto is amazing. I could easily bring up videos and you send you some on how great Naruto is. Look up Swagkage. The link: https://www. Youtube. Com/channel/UCeo3JUEsPIaeowbIkdu9AXg/featured

Now that's an actual official channel regarding Naruto and explaining how amazing it is, But I don't have to do that because I can speak for myself. The truth is the truth.

There's also videos on why FMA sucks. I could send a video on a person saying how much it sucks, But we won't get to that. Plus, Yet again I don't have to do that because I'm not that type of person, I can speak for myself. Not saying FMA sucks in any way, Shape or form, In fact know it's great from some of the time I had watching it, And clips of it as well.

We can debate all day on videos but lets go with words between US. Not over youtube videos over what someone ELSE said and what someone ELSE made. They made that video and said those words out of their mouth. You didn't.

Here is a parting gift on my end to show how GOOD Naruto is, Since you want to bring videos into this: /watch? V=7xIlKIMLLUU (put youtube. Com in front)

The title is "Naruto: How The Anime Lost What Made It Special. "

I can easily say me sending this video link makes me win, But no.

This video is 10 times better than the video you sent it. He clearly explains the greatness of Naruto and saying his fair opinion on how it lost what made it special. Clyde (guy in video) clearly loves Naruto and is even giving Naruto it's props.

As for me, I love One Piece and it has a lot of great qualities, But in my opinion it has a LOT, I mean a LOT of bad things about it that outweigh the good things, But I still acknowledge how great One Piece is.
~
As I said before I grew up on Naruto, But I won't be bias. I do in fact absolutely love Naruto but Naruto definitely has it's flaws.

I know for my side I am Pro (for) but I'm the type of person who look at both sides of the situation. I will discuss both pros AND cons explaining how the pros outweigh the cons.

Each series has it's ups and downs.

Pros of Naruto, The Masterpiece:

I shall start off with the main character and explain why he is a great MC: Naruto Uzumaki, The young boy who had a tragic and sad childhood, He had no one. He grew up without both parents and all the villagers hated & shunned him because of the 9 tailed fox sealed inside him. But he finally came across comrades. Iruka, Then Kakashi, Sasuke and Sakura and etc. You can gravitate towards Naruto and you feel really sad and sympathetic towards him. Also Naruto has an end goal, He wants to become Hokage and he never goes back on his word and never gives up. He works very hard to achieve his dream.

Naruto's strongest points - the story line, And the music (OSTs - they are amazing. Indescribable. Wonderful bongos, Etc. ) & of course the openings.

It's always very emotional and has lots of sad moments even from the very first episode.

Naruto has very great build-up leading to climactic moments. A great example would be Itachi"s introduction to the series (Naruto part 1) as the result of foreshadowing from Sasuke"s backstory. Keeps you guessing on who this guy Itachi is.

Started super strong. How can the very first episode of a series be THAT good? You can't deny how iconic episode 1 is.

Amazing characters. Lots of characters have tragic backstories, Even the villains. Some of them aren't evil just to be evil.

Naruto has great pacing and is very consistent throughout (minus the fillers).

The fights are out of this world. Just awesome. (Naruto is up there with the hand to hand combat). Kakashi vs Obito is easily one of the best, Emotional, Well choreographed fight. Just look at that fight alone. . . That's all I need to say. Not to mention Rock Lee vs Gaara. . . . Sasuke vs Itachi. . . . Come on now.

This series has a very strong impact. When Naruto ended, Me along with millions of other fans were sad, Crying and heartbroken. What other series is capable of this? Perhaps One Piece whenever it ends, But I don't think it's ending any time soon. When I finished Bleach, I was disappointed and even now, I miss Bleach and I want it to return, But I wasn't emotionally broken after it ended as I was with Naruto. Yes, Naruto ended and it's over but it will have a long lasting imprint.

Naruto's foreshadowing is phenomenal.

Yes, Naruto is known for having too many flashbacks, But most of them are great, Especially ones that are being shown for the very first time. It goes along with the scenes and they make total sense.

I remember back in the day, Naruto literally became a trend. You couldn"t go anywhere without seeing Naruto (even all over Youtube), For example: the "Ninja run" memes. You can even notice other characters in different anime run like Naruto.

Naruto has countless memorable moments and ground breaking scenes. Not just with fights, But even speeches. For example, Gaara's iconic speech in the beginning of the 4th Great Ninja War.

After the ending of Naruto, There's Boruto, His son. What other anime has a main character that achieved their dream, Has children, Married, And now their son has their own show as a spin off? I'll wait.

Nothing like a beautiful wedding to end a series, How unique. Everything about Naruto is just breathtaking.

List goes on.
~
I just about reached my limit, So I will be saying the Cons about Naruto in the comments. (which will be short)
omar2345

Pro

I thought I did upload something but now I found out the 9 thousands were not posted.

I did not back it up so it my fault but what I was rebutting were statements outside what the debate was about.

Add them to the comments or lets not continue it because this debate is supposed to be about Naruto.

I'll make it simple but I expect you to actually rebut my arguments in the Round 3 with quoting it since you did not do that. If you don't then I am lead to believe you cannot rebut the points I made. So please do because now I will be doing the same. Note only talk about Naruto. Not FMA or One Piece. I did have rebuts to that stating I am okay with having my ideas challenge from videos like FMA sucks but I would need to watch the Anime first. The FMA I was talking about was the brotherhood. It is the best FMA.

Back to Naruto:

this video link makes me win, But no. - His positive were subjective and his negatives were objective. I am not going to have a debate on opinions which can be clearly pointed out from the arguments why Naruto is so priveleged or other claims I make.

clearly loves Naruto and is even giving Naruto it's props- What is your point? Of course he is going to add is subjective thoughts for positives because I cannot think of objective positives. I don't get "is even giving" part because of course a Naruto fan would give positive for Naruto. Why wouldn't he?

Skipping the One Piece part.

I know for my side I am Pro (for) but I'm the type of person who look at both sides of the situation- This was not needed since you are on the Pro side. If you give me points why are you on the Pro side?

The young boy who had a tragic and sad childhood, He had no one. He grew up without both parents and all the villagers hated & shunned him because of the 9 tailed fox sealed inside him. - How is this relatable? Majority of the population are not orphans (a child whose parents are dead. ). Compare Naruto having the NTF to a real life example. I don't think you can since the difference is a lot. One is name-calling and another is more gifted then anyone else in that universe.

Also Naruto has an end goal, He wants to become Hokage and he never goes back on his word and never gives up. - Okay he doesn't even know what a Hokage does until they trapped him in a room to study. If he wanted to become an Hokage shouldn't he at least know what a Hokage does?

He works very hard to achieve his dream. - Example? I pointed out he doesn't even know what a Hokage does and was shocked that he had to finally understand the fundamentals of being a Ninja.

Naruto's strongest points - the story line, And the music (OSTs - they are amazing. Indescribable. Wonderful bongos, Etc. ) & of course the openings. - No examples given.

It's always very emotional and has lots of sad moments even from the very first episode. - Subjective

A great example would be Itachi"s introduction to the series (Naruto part 1) as the result of foreshadowing from Sasuke"s backstory. Keeps you guessing on who this guy Itachi is. - I am not going to disagree with but we all know who would have won if Naruto was consistent. The NTF. NTF has limitless Chakra, What does Sasuke have red-eyes. It wasn't plot convenience that is why he never won.

You can't deny how iconic episode 1 is. - Iconic is subjective, But if you give me a definition then I will disagree or agree.

Amazing characters- Subjective. If you read my Round 3 argument Naruto is priveleged. Even if he was ostracized out of his community he still is the most powerful Ninja apart from unbeatable Madara who pretty much commits suicide.

Some of them aren't evil just to be evil- Is this a point or something? What you could have said is that villains closely mirror the opposite of Naruto's ideology or attack the flaws in his ideas. Mainly in the Neji fight where he pretty much says either your born better or you are nothing. Which can clearly be seen in the Rock Lee vs Gaara fight.

Naruto has great pacing and is very consistent throughout (minus the fillers)- Fillers are included in the Anime so this is not a point. What you could have said is the Manga is consistent and the fillers were used to exploit the Naruto name if were looking at both sides like you said earlier.

The fights are out of this world. Just awesome. - You really are gushing over Naruto aren't you? I wanted you to rebut my arguments not gush over it. Remember when you said "Again, I shall stay civil and rip you to shreds". How are you going to that without rebutting my claims and not included opinions. I stayed objective why didn't you?

This series has a very strong impact. When Naruto ended, Me along with millions of other fans were sad, Crying and heartbroken. What other series is capable of this? - This is subjective again. I was heartbroken when Neon Genesis Evangelion ended but I wouldn't use that as an argument for why Naruto is good.

Naruto's foreshadowing is phenomenal. - Examples

It goes along with the scenes and they make total sense. - Can you explain how it make sense with sources and your point.

trend. - Naruto being trendy does not mean it is a good show. This can be an appeal to popularity if you said it was good because of this reason but if you are not defending Naruto here then why didn't you remove it?

Naruto has countless memorable moments and ground breaking scenes. Not just with fights, But even speeches. For example, Gaara's iconic speech in the beginning of the 4th Great Ninja War- More opinions

After the ending of Naruto, There's Boruto, His son. What other anime has a main character that achieved their dream, Has children, Married, And now their son has their own show as a spin off? I'll wait. - This a show have to do all this to be a good show? No would most likely answer then you cannot use this as a point.


Nothing like a beautiful wedding to end a series, How unique. Everything about Naruto is just breathtaking. -It is not unique because Samurai Jack ended with a wedding scene.




Don't use emotions. Tell me why my arguments in Round 3 are wrong and the ones that I have rebutted do not use your emotions. We are meant to be arguing why Naruto is a good show. Emotions are subjective and can only appeal to you. Objective stays objective irrespective of your feelings.

One example of an objective is Naruto is priveleged. This affects the underdog vibe that Naruto was using if he had an NTF doing all the work. Yes you have to agree with my premises but they are not subjective because you can clearly see it through the Anime.













Debate Round No. 4
Kvng_8

Con

Replying to your comments:

"Naruto is not relatable because of how much privilege he has. Who else has a plot convenience NTF that gives him unlimited stamina? If I was Naruto I wouldn't care that I got bullied I have limitless Chakra. He is not relatable because of how much he is gifted even if he was bullied he is a living God. A God is not relatable. " Okay if that's the case, Since he's so privileged there are privileged children in the real world, So lookie there, They can relate to him! And dude. . . . This is anime. No person in the real world won't have the Nine tailed fox, Limitless chakra and a god. You're taking everything so literal. He is relatable because maybe many people grew up on Naruto and they were the same age as him, Perhaps they were alone, And didn't have any friends and always had bad grades in school. That's what I meant. Not that someone is gonna have a sealed beast inside of them. . .
~
"He also said Goku wanted to be the greatest fighter. "

"Naruto wanted to be Hokage because he wanted to be the greatest. " - They aren't different lol that's my point of how they both want to achieve their goals just as Clyde said.

There's really no need to analyze the video. The video is proof enough for you to watch on your own without me having to explain anything to you. Clyde explained everything himself. Just as you sent me that video on "Naruto, The Self-Made Hypocrite" you didn't analyze anything. All you did was send words from the video verbatim of what he said. So I am returning the favor since you want to bring videos into this.
~
"He also states Madara was too powerful and even the writer did not even know how to kill him off. The Arc is bad if the main villian is unbeatable. The story is bad because even the writer did not even know how to kill him. " Okay and? That doesn't make the story bad it just makes it more interesting. Doesn't make the writer bad or the arc bad. He didn't die from suicide, Kaguya killed him.
~
"He is a Naruto fan and use his opinions as good points. " - Duh because Naruto is amazing.
"He has opinions with objective points so basically the only thing you can argue with him is the negative not the positive because that is his opinion. " - And? Dang dude you just won't acknowledge the greatness of Naruto or how good it is, At least give credit where credit is due.
~
And when you said "This video will make you realize how bad Naruto is. " You could have just said your opinion - "I think this video shows how bad Naruto is. " Instead of adding fuel to the fire and forcing me to "realize" it's bad. That's impossible. No person or no video can tell me how bad Naruto is, Because it isn't. You're the one that sent me an inconsistent video. I sent you a clear video. You just don't agree with it because it's explaining how good Naruto is. Clyde even mentioned how great Rock Lee vs Gaara is. But didn't you say that's the best fight? But wait, You're calling ME bias? I'm not bias because I'm even saying the cons of Naruto, Not just the pros.
~

Replying to your debate:

Likewise. Just as the video you sent me was a big pile of sh**. But the one I sent was way more accurate.

The reason I said "he is even giving Naruto it's props" is because he also described how Naruto lost what made it special even though he is a Naruto fan. He was also discussing the cons about it. Point I'm making is that even though you're a Naruto fan, You can point out the bad things about it. That leads to next point:

I know for my side I am Pro (for) but I'm the type of person who look at both sides of the situation- Because I'm not all the way bias and I know Naruto has it's flaws. If I list the pros ONLY and not the cons, That will only help your case. Because not only am I being fair, I can also predict your cons. For example: The filler thing.

"If he wanted to become an Hokage shouldn't he at least know what a Hokage does? " - He knew Hokage was the leader of the village and someone who protects it, That's why he wanted to be Hokage. Of course he isn't going to know all the details about it because he was such a young age.

"He works very hard to achieve his dream. " I'll get to that in my response to your Round 3 debate.

"Naruto's strongest points - the story line, And the music (OSTs - they are amazing. Indescribable. Wonderful bongos, Etc. ) & of course the openings. " - Do you honestly need examples? From my knowledge you've seen a good amount of Naruto so how would you not know how good the music is or about the great story line? The land of waves arc with Zabuza and Haku at the beginning is one of the best. Iconic, And let's not get started on the Chunin exams, Etc. As for the music, Uhh ALL of Naruto's openings, And for OSTs: Naruto Shippuden OST 1 - Track 23 - Taiji ( Confronting ) - My personal favorite, Along with Naruto Shippuden OST - Departure To The Front Lines, Naruto Shippuden OST 1 - Track 06 - Ninmu ( Mission ), Just to name a few. And the list goes on.

"It's always very emotional and has lots of sad moments even from the very first episode. " - How is this subjective when this is TRUE? Is your whole argument going to consist of you saying subjective 20 billion times?

And you keep saying red eyes and it's bothering me, It's called Sharingan. Not really relevant to the debate but had to let you know.

"You can't deny how iconic episode 1 is. " - Watch it for yourself and you will see and get proved wrong. See it for yourself since everything I say regardless is "subjective" or you will disagree with it.

"Amazing characters" - Here we go with the subjective. . . Itachi. . Jiraiya. . . Deidara. . . Madara. . . Kakashi. . Shikamaru. . . Rock Lee. . . So many great characters.

"Mainly in the Neji fight where he pretty much says either your born better or you are nothing. " - I'll get to that in my response to your Round 3 debate.

"fillers were used to exploit the Naruto name. " 1. That's not the point of fillers. Look up what fillers mean and what they are there for. Naruto isn't the only anime with fillers. Yes, It may have the most but oh well. Solution: Just skip the fillers. 2. I don't read manga, I'm an anime only watcher

"This series has a very strong impact. When Naruto ended, Me along with millions of other fans were sad, Crying and heartbroken. " - Not subjective. This is true.

"It goes along with the scenes and they make total sense. " For examples - character's backstories.

"popularity" - key word. POPULAR. Let that sink in.

"Naruto has countless memorable moments and ground breaking scenes. Not just with fights, But even speeches. For example, Gaara's iconic speech in the beginning of the 4th Great Ninja War- More opinions" - Well this is a debate meaning we are saying our opinions.

I shall reuse this point - "After the ending of Naruto, There's Boruto, His son. What other anime has a main character that achieved their dream, Has children, Married, And now their son has their own show as a spin off? I'll wait. "

"-It is not unique because Samurai Jack ended with a wedding scene. " Oh cool I didn't know that. But by unique, I mean an actual long running shounen anime where the MC gets married.

I'm not using emotions.
~
I don't have enough space for my response on your Round 3 debate, So I will post it in the comments.
omar2345

Pro

Debate was agreed to be over.
Debate Round No. 5
101 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Kvng_8 3 years ago
Kvng_8
P. S - @Omar - My points 1 and 12 tie into each other as well.
Posted by Kvng_8 3 years ago
Kvng_8
Yeah, I hope so. Thanks, Leaning.

Gotta admit, This was fun and I've learned some things especially reading some of your comments.

I hope the both of you understood my comments.

(100 comments, Wow) Lol
Posted by Leaning 3 years ago
Leaning
Eh, Look a the positives, Rest of your debates after this ought to be simpler.
Posted by Kvng_8 3 years ago
Kvng_8
1. Leaning - Now that I think about it, My very first opening in my argument for round 1 probably should have just been "I am against watching anime in sub, And I prefer dub. If you watch sub, Then make your argument. " And give the floor to Pro rather than me saying my full blown argument first. Not to sound arrogant but I think my very first round was very convincing and unfair because I basically looked at every single detail. So the person that replies back (depending on the person) it will be harder for them to respond to that? (Theory)

2. Leaning - Referring to your question of whether it's option 1 or 2, Honestly speaking, I would say it's a little bit of both (after re-reading it).

3. Leaning - Sorry if the title of my debate confused you. I probably should have titled it "Dub is better than sub" and be "Pro" (for) agreeing with it.

4. Leaning - "Well, They were convincing in the sense that he made an argument that anime need not ONLY be watched in the Sub. " - Correct.

5. Omar - You said "You don't have to be real Anime fan to watch the sub version but if you understand the language then it is the best experience. " in response to what I said in Round 1, After I said "A person once told me that since I watch dub, I'm not a real anime fan. " And towards the end, I also said "I am in fact a real anime fan and I appreciate anime. I just like to watch it in the language that I speak. Not in Japanese with subtitles. " So all you did was agree with me, So there is no need for me to rebuttal that.

6. Omar - Leaning doesn't have to come to me asking me how he should vote on me. That is his decision on who made convincing arguments or not. If he asks me or you about our debate of course we are going to say we are more convincing since naturally you're bias for yourself and you want yourself to win.
Posted by Kvng_8 3 years ago
Kvng_8
7. Omar - "Those are the reasons why I never find the enjoyment or the appeal to sub. I personally don't find it fun to watch. " - That was my opinion. Did you find it unfair that I said that? Explain.

8. Leaning - Dub honestly has no cons for me. Not to be bias. But I did list the one good thing about Sub (in my Round 1) and the list bad things about sub - or rather, Shall I say the reason why I am a dub person (well, Same thing). I have also stated that I do in fact enjoy sub (sometimes) and I even watch sub. I love the voices and some of the Japanese voice actors. This shows that I am not bias. But overall I am just a dub person. (This leads to my next point below)

9. I gave both perspectives to Sub (pros and cons) because 1. It shows that I am not 100% bias. Same with the Naruto thing. As much as I love Naruto, I gave the cons about Naruto because Naruto indeed does have flaws. 2. I try to give both sides (if I can) I am a fair person. I try to do that for most debates. Like Leaning mentioned, Not everything has pros and cons. Some things ONLY have cons to them. 3. I don't see it as unfair that I give both pros and cons. The other key reason I do that is because I will gain an advantage over my opponent. Not only do I display how the "cons outweigh the pros" showing the reason why I am on the "con" side, But I put the pressure on the other person making it harder for them to come back with their argument (this somewhat ties into point number 12) since, For example - "I am for gun control" generally people will expect you to only say the reasons why you are for that. They won't expect you to say the cons about it as well. This also shows a sense of neutrality. In this debate, I said only a few pros about sub. That did not help Omar's case because like I said, I displayed how the "cons outweigh the pros" & it also makes it harder for him. That is my intent. Sorry that I am being redundant. I just want to be clear and so you guys understand.
Posted by Kvng_8 3 years ago
Kvng_8
10. Omar - What's wrong with perception? That can be a great tool to use in a debate. Everyone debates differently. Just as long as they have conduct, Aren't rude and calling you names or disrespectful. I just happen to have no conduct with you because - you know the reason. We won't get into that. The situation is now over.

11. Omar - You took this debate more seriously than I did? Please explain.

12. Omar - "To me by listing Cons to his argument he gave me less to say then what he already. Made me seem like I was repeating a point that he made. " - I can agree with that, I suppose. But that was my point. It was my strategy to make me win the debate. I made a very strong argument in my very first round so it would be hard for my opponent to respond. So thank you for confirming that that was the case. Although, I do admit you had a great Round 1. And I pretty much agreed with 80% of everything you said.

13. Omar - "Still think his arguments and the title of the debate were unfair. " - The arguments? No. They are fair. As far as the title of the debate, I can agree with that I suppose. This goes back to my point on number 3.

14. Leaning - No need to read all of the comments between me and Omar from the past. Way too many. It's just drama and negativity and I will apologize on my behalf to YOU for that. As far as the other debates, Disregard them. It's too much to read. You've already commented enough on here, So I'm sure you are drained. (I got 50 notifications. 50 comments? Wow! )

15. Let's just all end this. I don't want the both of you guys to keep going back and forth anymore. And as for me and you Omar, Let's just end this cordially. I got tired of this and I just want it to be over. For this to be my very first debate on DDO, I would have never imagined it would turn out like this.

And Leaning, Thanks for voting for me.
Posted by Leaning 3 years ago
Leaning
Hmm, I'm not sure that would make his arguments unfair or not. Debate was weighed in his favor though I think.

Personally I think you both took the three debates too seriously. Though I'm not sure about that. Haven't really read all the comments in between you and him.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
One more thing the debate with Dub and Sub is really restricted.

One is subtitles with the Japanese
the other
Translated to English or other languages apart from Japanese.

To me by listing Cons to his argument he gave me less to say then what he already. Made me seem like I was repeating a point that he made.

Still think his arguments and the title of the debate were unfair.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
I think I took this debate more seriously then Against did. You are right.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
He also looked at perception which adds another layer to his argument which was not needed.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Leaning 3 years ago
Leaning
Kvng_8omar2345Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:31 
Reasons for voting decision: For reasons given in the comments.

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