The Instigator
Ew2046
Pro (for)
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The Contender
Razzle1234
Con (against)
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Should States and Coutnries Legalise Non-Binary Identities?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/5/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 579 times Debate No: 119330
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
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Ew2046

Pro

Should States and Countries legalise Non-Binary Identities?

I want to start by stating a few things. I myself am a non-binary (Agender) individual. For the sake of narrowing the debate, I'm defining being non-binary as anybody who doesn"t identify as male or female. Before you all say "there is no such thing as a third gender" I like most Non-Binary people am not trying to create a third gender. What we want is to be recognised as neither gender (not a third gender or +50 genders.

My main reason for asking this to see what other people think about this issue and Non-Binary rights. Also do not feel like you even have to come close to filling the 10000 characters, If you do then great. I also don't want to debate anyone who just says "well God says", Religion can provide the context in a debate but you can"t use it for non-religious debates.

The point of this debate is to expand my knowledge and other people"s knowledge on why Non-Binary identities should be legalised.

In several states and a few countries (California, Maine, Etc) state legislators have passed laws that allow for a third (X marker) to be on legal documents. This would be used for people who don"t identify as male or female and feel uncomfortable pretending to be either.

I am arguing that Non-Binary people should get their own legal marker

This would benefit the overall health and happiness of Non-Binary people.

1. It would remove some of the awkwardness of having to correct people when they miss gender you.
2. It would also help Non-Binary people be more comfortable about themselves and with their own identities.
3. We wouldn"t have to have legal documents that do not match our identities

For me and many other Non-Binary and Trans people having documents that have our dead names and the gender, We were assigned at birth, Increase our anxiety and makes us feel worse about ourselves.
Razzle1234

Con

Creating Non-Binary genders would totally ruin pro nouns in which we have had for hundreds of years. The reality is there are only two genders, A man and a women. Now if you want to be transgender go ahead, I have no problem with that, But you still have to identify as a man or women. Nobody is going to go around calling people they or them its just not going to happen. These pronouns are used so often and used subconsciously, Telling people to call people they or them would put every plural and singular pro-noun you've used as a child in jeopardy. Yes feelings do matter but at the end of the day facts are facts, And a fact is there are only two genders and you are born a certain gender like it or not. Saying you can switch is is one thing saying you don"t identify as anything is simply wrong. Nobody is going to go up to anyone they talk too and ask for their preferred pro-nouns, They are going to call you a she if you look like a she and a he if you look like a heirs been that way for hundreds of years and there has been no problems with it and now people are expecting people to change the whole English language and the way we speak to make them feel better about themselves. If anyone truly believes they are non-binary they wouldn"t care what anyone else has to say to them or call them because they would be wrong in their minds. That"s part of why I think this movement is a joke. I think it"s people looking for attention because they care so much about what others say, If you believe it you don"t need others approval.
Debate Round No. 1
Ew2046

Pro

We aren"t discussing creating Non-Binary identities as they already exist. Although I suppose there are some people who actually believe in adding tons of different genders and pronouns. However generally speaking the Non-Binary community only has a few pronouns.

The pronouns they/them have been used for centuries as a single pronoun. It has always been used to describe someone of an unknown gender. Webster"s dictionary defines it as "often used with an indefinite third person singular antecedent". When a killer or suspect in an investigation is unknown you would refer to the suspect with they/them pronouns. In English, The "the word the pronoun [singular they] refers to [something whose pronoun] is unknown, Irrelevant, Or nonbinary" (Oxford)
The same page states that the origin of the use of single them/they (the equivalent of they/them in Old English) pronouns goes back to 1375, In the text William of the Werewolf.

For some reason, People decided in the 18th Century that they/them pronouns had become plural because plural pronouns couldn't be the same as singular pronouns. This statement is false as we have they/them and the you pronouns that can all refer to one thing or many things.

"The reality is there are only two genders" I completely agree with you. Trans and Cis people identify as male or female and Non-Binary people identify as neither or both gender identities. The reason myself and many other people identify as Non-Binary is because we don't feel right identify as either gender. However we are not creating a third gender, The whole point is to identify as NONE, Which isn"t a third one.

There are tons of people who are willing to use they/them pronouns for people. There are far more who refuse to but those same people will often use they/them pronouns for inanimate objects or people who are unidentified (pronouns and such). If people are willing to use it in cases like that then they should be able to use it for people who actually want to be referred to with those pronouns. The argument that it isn"t going to happen because people are uncomfortable with saying those pronouns doesn"t make sense because most people will use those pronouns for Non-Non-Binary people or for Non-Binary objects.

How would it put any of the other pronouns in general? If we examine all the pronouns we have I, You, His/her, Us, And they/them. You is already plural and singular so it couldn"t be changed. It would make no sense to have "I" as plural because it refers to a single person (the person talking). If someone was discussing themselves and others they would simply use "us". Nobody would change those because it wouldn"t make sense or have any bearing on anything. His and her pronouns wouldn"t change either because again that wouldn"t make sense, She and he are used to indicate a specific person. They/them has always been used to indicate specific people and groups of people. There is no reason for pronouns to change.

A simple pronoun that actually means both is not going to change the entire English language. Also, There can be harm with not asking pronouns. If you get them wrong then you embarrass someone and in the case of trans people, You give us a ton of unneeded anxiety.

Why wouldn"t we care? I and many other people have gender dysphoria so referring to me as the pronouns I was assigned at birth would affect me. You think that an entire group of people are a joke and seeking attention. May I ask you to elaborate on that claim. I don"t care as much about what other people say so much as I want people to respect my identity. The reason it should be a legalised identity is because it allows me to move away from my gender assigned at birth and allow me to become the person I want to be, The person I am.

Sources:

https://www. Merriam-webster. Com/dictionary/they
https://public. Oed. Com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/
Razzle1234

Con

Razzle1234 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Ew2046

Pro

Since my opponent so graciously forfeited this round I will counter other people"s arguments (online and IRL).

First I'm going to examine the scientific/biological lens of this Non-Binary topic. There are many defects with sex, One that are more obvious and ones that will likely not be seen by most. There is the obvious fact of intersex/hermaphrodites who have more obvious differences with their gentians, Having some mix of both. There are also cases where a man or woman think they are just their more obvious sex but later learn that they have part of the other sex's organs (men with breasts or uterus inside their body).

There are lesser known biological things that could easily be a cause for trans/non-binary people. For example Turner syndrome where a female has only one X chromosome.

Other diseases include Mosaicism where someone is born with and XY chromosome and an X chromosome. People and be born with XX/XY, XXY, XXX (Triple X syndrome), XYY, XXXX, XXXY, XXYY, XXXXX, XXYY, And a few other combinations. These can all causes defects in the brain or body that go unnoticed, For all you know you could very well have one of these. There are other ones like XX male syndrome and XY female which could really cause gender dysphoria. These are ones where someone who looks like a man and has male parts can actually be born with XX chromosomes (female ones). Moral of the story using chromosomes as an argument against non-Binary and trans people is not good for your case because there are so many defects with it.

The are arguments that non-binary people cannot biologically be possible is wrong, Especially if you define male as someone who has XY and female as someone with XX

Sources:

MayoClinic site about Turner Syndrome
And Wikipedia of XX male syndrome
Razzle1234

Con

Razzle1234 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Ew2046 3 years ago
Ew2046
Does it say that my round 3 is posted? I keep posting it but my device is acting like it isnt there.
Posted by Ew2046 3 years ago
Ew2046
Yes that is true, I was just debunking the fact that biology is sound and that all people are 100% male or female (excluding true hermaphrodites). I know that people aren't born non-binary but I figured that incase someone wanted to argue about biology I would present some of the facts. My main argument was in round 2 but since my opponent clearly isn"t going to contribute any more information I just wanted to add more information for future people to read.
Posted by drewrushline 3 years ago
drewrushline
Just want to point out a fatal flaw in the legalization of non-binary FROM BIRTH: a human being cannot be born non-binary. Even if you have a disorder that makes you "intersex, " you will still have predominant characteristics of either one gender or the other.
Posted by Ew2046 3 years ago
Ew2046
I was planning on getting someone to mention biology and science in which I would've gone into that argument. I would"ve this morning put I was in a hurry and didn"t want too much writing. Good point though.
Posted by unicorngod 3 years ago
unicorngod
scientifically speaking there are way more than two sexes/genders. If you look at chromosomal structures for intersex people.
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