The Instigator
asta
Con (against)
The Contender
victorliao481
Pro (for)

Should abortion be legal in any situations?

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Debate Round Forfeited
victorliao481 has forfeited round #2.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/22/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 710 times Debate No: 112454
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

asta

Con

Abortion is wrong because it kills a human being. Rules:

(As a current agnostic) Science confirms that a fetus is a human being.

Biology states that a fetus meets all the necessary criteria for life.

Biology states that a fetus has all the necessary chromosomes to be alive. This means that a fetus is a human.

I await pro's response.
victorliao481

Pro

1. Abortion is about allowing woman the right to make choices about when they want to have children in relation to their age, financial stability & relationship stability. It is the not the place of government to legislate against woman's choices.
2. Raising a child is not an easy task & requires social & emotional commitment coupled with financial resources. As such if a person feels they are not ready for a child, it means the pregnancy is unwanted & resultant allowing a fetus to grow into a child is worse than abortion since the resultant child will grow in a non conducive & destructive environment without the love, care & stability that a child needs.
3. The argument against abortion is a moral argument which is subject to personal interpretation so should not be legislated against. Those see it morally allowable to do abortion should be provided with the means to do so & those who don't believe in abortion should have the choice not to have an abortion
4. A fetus is not legally or scientifically a person or human being so abortion cannot be equated to murder or taking a life since the fetus is not a person nor alive.
5. A fetus is like a brain dead person with no self awareness or consciousness so it is actually dead.
6. Prohibiting abortions doesn't stop abortions, women would simply seek abortions via illegal means which are unsafe & illegal, so it is better to provide woman with safe & legal ways to do an abortion.
7. Abortion prevent unwanted & unplanned pregnancies which prevents child neglect since the mother does not want to have children at that moment in time.
8. Making abortion illegal is also a class struggle since the rich can always go to other places where it is legal & have an abortion whilst the poor cannot do this, but have to resort to unsafe abortions which can lead to their death.
9. Making abortion illegal is more or less compulsory pregnancy which contradicts the quest & fight for freedom.
10. Making abortion illegal will increase teenage pregnancy (children having children). This usually leads to illegal abortions which can lead to death or permanent health defects, poverty, joblessness, hopelessness, and dependency.
11. A woman's right to choose abortion is a "fundamental right"
12. Personhood begins at birth, not at conception. Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy (fetus), not a baby. Personhood at conception is not a proven biological fact. Fetuses are incapable of feeling pain when an abortion is performed.
13. Access to legal, professionally-performed abortions reduces injury and death caused by unsafe, illegal abortions.
14. The anti-abortion position is usually based on religious beliefs and threatens the vital separation of church and state. Religious ideology should not be a foundation for law.
15. Modern abortion procedures are safe. The risk of a woman"s death from abortion is less than one in 100,000, whereas the risk of a woman dying from giving birth is 13.3 deaths per 100,000 pregnancies.
16. Access to abortion is necessary because contraceptives are not always readily available. Women need a doctor's prescription to obtain many birth control methods, such as the pill, the patch, the shot, and the diaphragm.
17. Abortion gives couples the option to choose not to bring babies with severe and life-threatening medical conditions to full term.
18. Many women who choose abortion don't have the financial resources to support a child.
19. Motherhood must never be a punishment for having sexual intercourse.
20. A baby should not come into the world unwanted. 49% of all pregnancies among American women are unintended. Having a child is an important lifelong decision that requires consideration, preparation, and planning.
21. Abortion reduces crime. Teenage girls, unmarried women, and poor women are more likely to have unintended pregnancies, and since unwanted babies are often raised in poverty, their chances of leading criminal lives in adulthood are increased.
22. Do we have the right to force the mother to keep the baby solely because she consented to participate in these sexual activities? Do we have the right to take away another"s right as we continue to fight for other rights? Why do we take away the rights of a woman because she has the potential to have a baby?
23. We get right to life, liberty & pursuit of happiness when we are born. he fetus does not have these rights until it is born. So abortion is not murder & abortion does not go against the rights of a fetus since it does not have any until born.
24. Every woman has the right to do whatever they want with their body aka Bodily Autonomy. This is one of the reasons why it is illegal to take organs from the deceased that have not signed off permission. If we continue this right after life, why do we strip it from a pregnant woman? Why would you grant a dead person a right that you wouldn"t give to someone that is alive.
25. If someone needs something donated that you have, you are not legally obligated to donate anything. This parallels to pregnancies because a fetus does need these resources, but the mother is not legally obligated to keep giving this baby her resources. Denying to give someone a body part is not illegal, so terminating a pregnancy should not be illegal
26. Legal abortions protect women's health. Legal abortion not only protects women's lives, it also protects their health. For tens of thousands of women with heart disease, kidney disease, severe hypertension, sickle-cell anemia and severe diabetes, and other illnesses that can be life-threatening, the availability of legal abortion has helped avert serious medical complications that could have resulted from childbirth. Before legal abortion, such women's choices were limited to dangerous illegal abortion or dangerous childbirth.
27. Being a mother is just one option for women.* Many hard battles have been fought to win political and economic equality for women. These gains will not be worth much if reproductive choice is denied. To be able to choose a safe, legal abortion makes many other options possible. Otherwise an accident or a rape can end a woman's economic and personal freedom.
28. Even when precautions are taken, accidents can and do happen. For some families, this is not a problem. But for others, such an event can be catastrophic. An unintended pregnancy can increase tensions, disrupt stability, and push people below the line of economic survival. Family planning is the answer. All options must be open.
Debate Round No. 1
asta

Con

Big list. I can see that you put a lot of thought into your response. However, I plan on doing the same thing.

1) If the woman does not want the child, she can choose not to have sex or if she does choose to have sex, she can get an IUD, which are over 99% effective (https://www.bedsider.org...).

2) The woman does not have to raise the child. She can set the kid up for adoption.

3) The argument against abortion is not a moral argument, but a scientific one. If scientific evidence suggests that a fetus is a human being, then abortion kills an innocent human being.

4) Although law is inconsistent and varies place from place, scientifically, a fetus is a human being, even if they are stupid, even if they can't feel pain, even when it's legal to kill, a fetus is a human being because of the scientific evidence that I posted in round one.

5) Just because you don't have a brain and can't feel pain does not justify the right to get killed. Is it acceptable to give an extremely autistic person who's asleep a lethal injection if the person dying does not consent to it?

6) Prohibiting abortions does not eliminate abortions, just as prohibiting rape (which already exists) won't eliminate it. However (as a metaphor), if rape becomes legal, rape would become much more common. Similarly, abortions would be less common if they were to be made illegal.

7) If the woman does not want to bear children, she shouldn't have had sex or used an IUD. Once the child is born, read bullet 2.

8) If abortion is illegal nationwide and if it were illegal to travel outside the nation for abortion purposes, the rich won't be able to travel to have an abortion. Also, there would be less abortions. Do you want to know where the real inequality is? It is in making abortion legal since it implies and even states that a mother's comfort is worth more than a child's life, which is female supremecy.

9) Not all freedom is considered moral. If a country had no laws and if there was unlimited legal freedom, then that would be anarchy. All freedom should be allowed to exist as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others. The thing is with abortion, it infringes on the rights of a fetus.

10) Making abortion illegal nationwide will decrease teenage pregnancy since teens would be less prone to having sex in the first place do to them being more responsible. It's easy to go abstinent until marriage. I do it. People that have a high sex drive have a high sex drive because of their individual choices and the wishes of society, mostly individual choices. My mom wanted me to lose my virginity before marriage. But I contain and reduced the sex urge, despite my mom not wanting it.

11) A woman's right to an abortion is not a fundamental right. What's really a fundamental right? The definition of fundamental is , "a foundation or basis" (http://www.dictionary.com...). So a fundamental right, the foundation right is the right that helps all other rights to exist. This is the right to life for all innocent humans. All abortion is is a supplemental right in the places where it is legal. This supplemental right comes at the expense of the fundamental right to life. Fundamental rights are more important than supplemental rights.

12) A fetus is a young baby the same way a toddler is an old baby. The age groups for humans are:

-Adults(18 years old) which is broken down into:
-Elderly (65 years old)
-Middle aged (40 to 60 years old)
-Young adult (20 to 40 years old)
-Teen adult (18 to 19 years old)
-Teenagers(13 to 19 years old) which is broken down into:
-Adult teen (18 to 19 years old)
-Minor teen (13 to 17 years old)
-Tweens/Pre teens (9 to 12 years old)
-Kid (4 to 8 years old, although many people outside this age range are refereed too as kid)
-Baby(3- years old), which is broken down into:
- Born Baby(0 to 3 years old, although many people outside this age range are refereed too as baby) which is broken down into:
-Toddler (1 to 3 years old)
-Infant (0 to 1 year old)
-Unborn baby (Before birth, ages are measured in years after/before birth because birth is more memorable than conception and holidays are about remembering)

Although a Fetus is not born yet and although they don't have a birthed age (it's like born experience), age alone does not disqualify you from being a human. Is it morally acceptable to kill someone who doesn't have job experience? No. Just because someone is too young for experience, whether that experience is being born or getting a job, does not mean that their life is worthless.
(https://www.englishforums.com...)

13) This is extremely false. The point of abortion is to kill a fetus. Every 1 million abortions kill 1,000,000 fetuses whereas live birth kills only 14 women.

14) I have not yet used a religious argument and I don't plan too. Just because the bible says something does not mean having the same law means a country is going against separation of church and state. The bible says stealing is wrong. The bible also sais it's wrong to lie in court. Yet the United States has both of these laws. Is this religious law? No. If every law was based on the bible then it would be religious law. However, having a few common sense laws that the bible happens to agree with is not a theocracy.

15) Per 100,000 abortions/births, a woman has a less than 1/6000 chance (less than 2% of 1%) more chance of dying from live birth than an abortion. However, every single abortion slaughters a fetus. Per 100,000, abortions kill about 100,001 people(100k fetuses plus 1 mother) while childbirth only results in about 13.3 deaths. Abortion is over 7500x more dangerous. If safe means reducing death, then what's safe now, abortion or childbirth?

16) Contraceptives are available. You can go into a pharmacy and buy 6 condoms for $5. If a prescription is necessary, then they can simply get a prescription.

17) It is possible to treat life threatening medical conditions. An example is in this link:
http://www.cbsnews.com...

18) Read bullet 2

19) Read bullet 2

20) Read bullet 2

21) Then don't raise them in poverty. Kids adopted from unintended pregnancies are less likely to become criminals. I know a few of these kids and they are not messed up. One is cheerful in general, the other has high grades and is pro life himself. They both will live better lives than what many people think, probably better lives then the average citizen.

22) We don't take rights away from people just because they can bear children. The mother is not losing rights to her section of the body. However, the fetus is not her section of the body. They may be connected but Siamese twins are also connected. Does this mean one has the right to stab another, even if that other Siamese twin hit their head and as a result, is brain dead, even if that twin will recover?

23) Why would an unborn baby not get the same legal rights as a born baby? They both are scientifically human and although the law sais otherwise, the law also said that slaves weren't legally people. However, science said the opposite. It therefore should have been made illegal to own slaves, since it infringed on the rights of the slaves. This happened in 1856. If slavery became illegal because the slaves deserve rights despite the law previously saying otherwise, why wouldn't this logic apply to the unborn?

24) The reason why I would grant the right of a dead person to their own organs but not allow a woman to have an abortion is because there are plenty of other organs to choose from. About 54% of the US population is an organ donor, a slim majority (https://www.organdonor.gov...). This means that if you weren't an organ donor, people wouldn't have to take your organs because there often are plenty of other alternatives to saving a victim's life. Otherwise, then it would be the greater good in taking the organs of the non consenting deceased in order to prevent more people from becoming deceased. If there was a functional enough artificial womb that a child can be placed in instead of a mother's uterus, and it's safe enough for the child, then a woman would have the right to not be pregnant anymore by impregnating an artificial womb. Unfortunately, these don't exist.

25) It's funny you would be saying this, since your the one who probably supports high taxes which is non consensual donations. However, the difference between your 2 parallels is in one situation, the mother chose to have sex and as a result, must accept the consequence of that. Suppose this scenario: Lets say that Person A burnt down the house of Person B, every last piece, for fun. Suppose then Person A has 2 houses and Person B demands one. Should Person A be forced to donate? After all since Person A caused the problem to exist from something they did for no reason except for fun, they should accept the consequences and should be required to give Person B a comparably valued house to replace the one that was burnt for fun.

26) Insurance pais for medicine.

27) You have been saying that pro lifers force motherhood on females. However (as a metaphor) it would be like the NRA saying that people want to take away guns. There are some liberals that want to ban guns. There are others that just want to remove powerful ones. Kind of similarly, there are some pro lifers that vouch for parenting(Human coalition), but this doesn't represent all pro lifers. Many (like myself) support the right to adoption. "Reproductive rights" went too far for a movement that claims to stand against oppression while oppressing a fetus. If a woman gets raped, she can get restitution by the government fining the rapist $250,000 and paying it to the rape victim if old enough so they can live a better life once the rape is over and the rapist has a worse life.

28) Read bullet 2
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Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by asta 3 years ago
asta
Good game but don't forfeit.
Posted by victorliao481 3 years ago
victorliao481
I cant do anything cause the pros side always goes first
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