The Instigator
SHARINGISCARINGg
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
MasterMewtwo
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Should bayonetta be in Smash Bros Switch

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/4/2018 Category: Games
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 536 times Debate No: 113509
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

SHARINGISCARINGg

Con

My friends have brought this questions up so many times, and I seem to be the only one that can choose a side wholeheartedly.

I hate bayonetta. I never knew what she was before smash 4 introduced her. Now I hate her.
MasterMewtwo

Pro

I believe the witch deserves a second chance in Smash Switch. Probably the main reason why she's controversial is her combos and her Witch Time. I'm pretty sure we can still have Bayonetta in Smash Bros, keep her close enough to her own game's mechanics, and get her off this hook. I'll give a quick explanation of Smash Bros and Bayonetta's game, titled Bayonetta.

So what is Smash Bros? It's a fighting game series where various characters (though usually Nintendo, the head of the series) attack with simple attacks such as specials, jabs, smash attacks, and grabs. There's even a Final Smash each character has, giving them a powerful attack once they beat up the floating Smash Ball enough. Combos usually are 2 to 4 attacks long, and aren't that big of a mechanic. Of course, there are combos that players found that can be higher.

Now, what is Bayonetta (game)? Its main gimmick is to do combos to increase your score, and you can unlock various moves and weapons to accomplish this. Bayonetta also fights giant creatures, finishing them off with an Infernal Climax, summoning a large demon to obliterate the angel. You can also dodge attacks to activate Witch Time, slowing everything down considerably for a short period, and use Beast Within, changing you into animals such as Panther Within to run fast, or Bat Within if you missed the dodge timing.

You can clearly see the difference, but it shouldn't stop this lady. But stay for the next round, all I did was talk about games so far.
Debate Round No. 1
SHARINGISCARINGg

Con

I'm staying for all rounds, I am really just doing this because I need a few more debates to be able to vote.

I will start by mentioning that Smash Bros has always been a very family friendly game. The Bayonetta series, after watching gameplay, is a very violent, gory, twisted game.

Next you said "combos usually are 2 to 4 attacks long," and this is true, and for almost all combos, there is a way out of them while you are caught in one. Not for Bayonetta. Bayonetta has her famous side special combo (and if anyone doesn't know what i'm talking about, just go to youtube and look up "smash bros 4 bayonetta side special combo") In which there is no way out of it. Granted, it takes some practice to get the combo under your fingers, but once you get it, there is nothing that can be done.

Next, bayonetta has the stupidest way of spiking people ever. Her down smash.
Most people have to actually jump of the stage and attempt to hit their opponent, but with bayonetta, all you have to do is sit there and wait.

Next I will talk about her base stats. For all of the non-DLC playable characters in smash bros 4, every person has around the same amount. I just realized I have no idea how to explain this. For example: Mario is considered one of the most standard characters, which means his speed, jump, attack, defense, and special are relatively the same. Ganondorf has a HUGE attack boost, but at the cost of speed, and size. So he is easier to hit. For all the DLC characters, each one has quite a bit more of one aspect than they should. Mewtwo should not have as much speed as he does, considering how big he is, how great his attack power is, and how high his jump is. Bayonetta has A ENORMOUS amount of EVERYTHING. Except defense, however she has about the same defense as link (which is standard defense).

In conclusion, Bayonetta has made such a bad turnout in smash 4 that she should not be allowed to progress to smash bros switch.
MasterMewtwo

Pro

Thank you for bringing these arguments. I'll counter what points I can, then I'll talk about how Bayonetta could be changed to be better suited for Smash.

Rebuttal:

"I will start by mentioning that Smash Bros has always been a very family friendly game. The Bayonetta series, after watching gameplay, is a very violent, gory, twisted game."

Fair point, but this doesn't mean she has to make Smash Bros bloody. How Smash 4 tones her down is enough so that she's still Bayonetta with her hot stuff, but the refrains from profanity and all the bloody Torture Attacks in her games.

You then go on about her moves, which I'll get into later since that's the core of my argument.

"Next I will talk about her base stats... Bayonetta has A ENORMOUS amount of EVERYTHING. Except defense, however she has about the same defense as link (which is standard defense)."

You're likely referring to a character's weight in terms of "defense", determining how easily a character can be launched (the goal of Smash Bros is to launch your opponent off the screen, light characters get launched easier). Bayonetta's ranked 42 in the weight list, with a value of 84. Link is ranked 11, tied with Yoshi and Captain Falcon at a value of 104. There's 55 characters in total, meaning Bayonetta's not as weighty as all the others. [Source: https://www.ssbwiki.com...]

Though I'm surprised you didn't mention Bat Within, a feature Bayonetta has in Smash 4. Don't worry, it can be removed in Smash Switch so we don't have to worry about her escaping combos all the time.

Bayonetta's moveset:

I'll list your complaints and explain how it can be fixed with a different moveset regarding her current one.

"Bayonetta has her famous side special combo (and if anyone doesn't know what i'm talking about, just go to youtube and look up "smash bros 4 bayonetta side special combo") In which there is no way out of it. Granted, it takes some practice to get the combo under your fingers, but once you get it, there is nothing that can be done."

You're able to link videos here, so why not do so yourself? Though I know what you're talking about; her side B. On the ground, it's Heel Slide. When used in mid air, it's her After Burner Kick, able to combo into a variety of comboes, notably this famous one: Side B, Up B, Side B, Side B backward, Up B. A few variations of this can even do a famous "0 to death" combo. So... how do we fix this in Smash Switch?

We could simply have her air Side B be the downward version, and never the upward version, the kind that makes this combo in the first place.

"Next, bayonetta has the stupidest way of spiking people ever. Her down smash.
Most people have to actually jump of the stage and attempt to hit their opponent, but with bayonetta, all you have to do is sit there and wait."

Ah, good old Heel Stomp. Although the timing isn't that easy, so you need to predict when your opponent would be in range. Though it can be pretty nasty anyway. So how can we change this? In Bayonetta 2, you can obtain the weapon Rakshasa, which are blades you can attach to your hands or feet. One of its attacks is a spinning attack, which could be a better down smash. [Don't know a good video, though.]

There's a few other complaints about Bayonetta, so I might as well go over them.

Witch Time: As a core mechanic of Bayonetta's games, dodging an attack slows down time. In Smash 4, this is her Down B, and you get slowed down no matter what attack you use, unless it's a projectile. We should probably change this so that you get slowed barely any time if you use a weak attack, but longer for a strong attack. A cooldown could also be effective, so you can't use it until a certain amount of time passes, maybe 30 seconds? 40?

Overall combo game: This is a pretty interesting problem, since of the contradiction between Smash's system and Bayonetta's system. The key is probably to give Bayonetta simpler combos, like her jab or her 3 kick side tilt, and have it just go into 1 follow up. Directional Influence, or DI for short, is a mechanic that allows you to escape combos. Let's make that a viable option here. And how about not allowing 0 to deaths? We've had enough "just SDI" (Smash Directional Influence), and "ban Bayo".

Bat Within: It's not exactly fair that you're not able to be comboed. So in Smash Switch, let's just remove this mechanic altogether.

With all these changes, we might be able to keep Bayonetta, and lower the controversy. And she may be even fun to have in a match!
Debate Round No. 2
SHARINGISCARINGg

Con

One of my points that I am trying to explain is that there are so many things wrong with bayonetta in Smash 4 that she should not be allowed in Smash Bros Switch. There are a whole lot of people, (myself included) that just stopped playing Smash 4 solely because of bayinetta (and corrin, but corrin isn't terribly bad, she is just annoying, like little mac). Nintendo must realise that if bayonetta is put in Smash Bros Switch, that there will be a large group of people that will not even bother getting the game. I will not be in that group, because Smash Bros is my life. I will just be thoroughly disappointed. Also, if they do decide to put bayonetta in Smash Bros Switch, they will have to nerf her within an inch of her life, or give her an entirely new moveset, which will disappoint those annoying people that mained as bayonetta in Smash 4, possibly causing them to not get Smash Switch.

And I'm sorry, I didn't explain what i meant by defense. When bayonetta is hit, she would get however much percentage, which would make her launch rate larger, but because of her defense, she gets a little less percentage, but it isn't even that much because bayonetta has a pretty standard defense.

I would like to point out that you put a list of bayonetta's moves, and how they could fix them, or remove them completely and replace them with different moves. No other person is Smash Bros history has had so many moves that needed to be changed or removed. In my opinion, Nintendo should be embarrassed from bayonetta and refrain from putting her in Smash Bros Switch.
MasterMewtwo

Pro

Thank you for posting. I'll do my best to answer any concerns.

Rebuttal:

"One of my points that I am trying to explain is that there are so many things wrong with bayonetta in Smash 4 that she should not be allowed in Smash Bros Switch. There are a whole lot of people, (myself included) that just stopped playing Smash 4 solely because of bayinetta (and corrin, but corrin isn't terribly bad, she is just annoying, like little mac)."

I'd like it if you posted something talking about this. How many players quit Smash because of the witch?

"Also, if they do decide to put bayonetta in Smash Bros Switch, they will have to nerf her within an inch of her life, or give her an entirely new moveset, which will disappoint those annoying people that mained as bayonetta in Smash 4, possibly causing them to not get Smash Switch."

Are we more concerned about Bayonetta mains, or ending the whole Bayonetta controversy? Either way, people will be upset. Keep Bayo, remove Bayo, keep her moveset, change her moveset... Considering she's the most infamous character for her combo game, we might save enough trouble by changing her moves.

"And I'm sorry, I didn't explain what i meant by defense. When bayonetta is hit, she would get however much percentage, which would make her launch rate larger, but because of her defense, she gets a little less percentage, but it isn't even that much because bayonetta has a pretty standard defense."

I don't think that's a thing (without equipment, that is) in Smash. I'm pretty sure all characters receive the same amount of damage from any attack. If you can, link a video or site that shows this difference.

"I would like to point out that you put a list of bayonetta's moves, and how they could fix them, or remove them completely and replace them with different moves. No other person is Smash Bros history has had so many moves that needed to be changed or removed."

Well, Pit's moveset is different in Smash 4 from his moves in Brawl (his Side B is now Upperdash Arm as opposed to spinning his bow, and his Up B launches him in a direction as opposed to entering a flight mode). Charizard also had his moves changed a bit. I don't see why Bayonetta needs to be an exception.

So there's not much reason not to keep Bayonetta. The fans wanted her, so we should at least try making her more fun to have in a match and a little less irritating.
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by SHARINGISCARINGg 3 years ago
SHARINGISCARINGg
Yeah, i also do that a lot. I just want to put as many words down as possible to make me seem smart. I don't even know what it is.
Posted by MasterMewtwo 3 years ago
MasterMewtwo
Sorry if I kind of said a lot in Round 2... that's kind of what I do.
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