The Instigator
bootsiecat
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
zapshe
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

Should cheerleading be banned from high schools and colleges?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/8/2019 Category: Sports
Updated: 6 days ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 178 times Debate No: 122937
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (1)

 

bootsiecat

Pro

Cheerleading should be banned from the academic environment because it is an activity that perpetuates gender stereotypes and objectifies women. Their outfits are getting more revealing as time passes, And they are subject to judgment based on their bodies and faces rather than intellect which is counterintuitive in our progressing society. While there are some benefits cheerleading provides (teamwork and physical fitness), Many other sports provide these benefits and the cons outweigh the pros in cheerleading due to its patriarchal, Archaic framework. Finally, These young women are typically 21 at the oldest and can be as young as elementary school aged. They should not be programmed to participate in a sport where physical appearance wins out over personal integrity and intellectual ability.
zapshe

Con

First off, They CHOSE to get into cheerleading - and it's not the easiest thing in the world. I remember walking into a crowded hallway FILLED with people trying out to become cheerleaders, And most of them won't get accepted. If they want to, Let them do it.

Second, Gender stereotypes are true. The first thing you'd learn in any psychology class is that stereotypes are usually based on facts. Men are stronger than women - true stereotype. Stereotypes aren't something to shy away from and shame, They're real because men and women are different. If cheer leading perpetuates a stereotype, Maybe it's true. Don't forget that men go into cheer leading in high school and colleges now too. I've seen several buff guys in there trying out and make it.

More on stereotypes - Women can be very attractive and so men tend to think of only a woman's body - that's not just a stereotype, But it's also true. Is that bad? I mean, We can look at a woman as an object but at the end of the day still know that they're more than that. At what point do we look at ourselves and accept that we're not perfect beings, And that trying to reach perfection shouldn't be the goal?

"They should not be programmed to participate in a sport where physical appearance wins out over personal integrity and intellectual ability. "

You mean most things ever? Most girls I see going to school everyday must have spent at least an hour on their makeup and hair. Most sports will force their athletes to hit the gym if they don't look well built - even if they are. Appearance is important everywhere - work, School, Etc. . Personal integrity and intellect are separate in that people judge you as a whole and not by the sum of your parts. You can be super intelligent, But an eye sore - are people going to flock you for your good trait? Well, It depends on you charisma and other traits too, If they can outweigh your one negative aspect. Is this unfair judgement? Perhaps, But it's human nature all the same.
Debate Round No. 1
bootsiecat

Pro

Thank you for your response.

Firstly, You are correct in that cheerleaders choose to be a part of the sport, But that doesn't mean much for society on the whole. My argument is that it should be banned for the good of society rather than the individuals partaking in the sport. There are many things people choose to be a part of that are generally seen as counterintuitive to the progression of our society.

Speaking to your argument of gender stereotypes, I am not talking about strength as that would be pertaining to sexuality, Not gender. In fact, The gender stereotypes I speak of have absolutely nothing to do with physical attractiveness or strength. They have to do with preconceived notions about how a woman or a man should behave and interact with each other in society. This has zero to do with physical strength. My argument that cheerleading should be banned doesn't have a thing to do with physical fitness, It has to do with the idea that women are still being objectified in society on very public platforms (i. E. Football fields). It does't even stop with adult women but it infiltrates middle schools and high schools. You said it yourself - "most girls I see going to school everyday must have spent at least an hour on their makeup and hair". Is this really something that women should use as a badge on honor? You say men get to be told to look stronger in their sport but women have to be told to look sexier, Right? That's the problem.

Lastly, You say it's "human nature". Sure. We can call it that. But we are constantly evolving Great Apes and I am certain we can come to a higher evolutionary ground and rise above. Cheerleading is an overlooked sport that is one of the responsible parties in shaping our young girls, Turning them into young women who think their only value is turning someone on. If Miss America stopped their bikini parade, So can the Dallas Cowboys.
zapshe

Con

"There are many things people choose to be a part of that are generally seen as counterintuitive to the progression of our society. "

That doesn't mean we ban them. Religion is counter-intuitive, We don't ban it. Children's stuff are always divided by gender as well. The girl's toys are girlish and boy's toys aren't - would you ban that too? Society is filled with gender-role based goods and activities. I mean, If I told you there's a strip club nearby, Wouldn't you assume it was a female strip club? Gender roles aren't holding society back by any means. Society is built by the people in them. What would banning cheerleading do? Would women everywhere be happier somehow? Would men stop looking at women's bodies? What's going to happen? Answer: nothing, But highschool and college sports will have less eye candy.

Frankly, I've only ever heard from one other than cheerleading was a bad thing, And that person was male. I can't find a single woman saying cheerleading is bad. Most of the extreme feminists have nothing to say on the matter. Let them do what they want.

"I am not talking about strength as that would be pertaining to sexuality, Not gender. "

I don't think I can facepalm hard enough.

"They have to do with preconceived notions about how a woman or a man should behave and interact with each other in society. "

And how are those stereotypes wrong? Men are on the front lines, Maybe a handful of women. Men dominate certain fields. Men play the well watched sports. There's nothing I can do about that. These aren't the results of sexism, But the result of physical differences. Men and Women will interact differently with society. Would you also be against companies that hire women for the registers?

It's not that all women fit the stereotypes, But most fit a lot of them - it's that simple. Men also for the most part fit the stereotypes. If you go into ANY society where the men aren't drooling over women, IDK what planet you went into. You'd also have to look pretty hard to find just a couple of societies that have EVER had females more dominate. Is that gender-roles? Yes. But gender-roles don't fall from the sky - they're based on actual truths. So again, What would abolishing cheerleading do?

"My argument that cheerleading should be banned doesn't have a thing to do with physical fitness"

Neither do the T. V. S they set up in the gyms. Neither do the audience members watching. Hell, Football has nothing to do with physical fitness the way it's played in the big leagues. At that point, It's more about murdering each other. They play a few games a season and that's it. The physical fitness comes from all the training they do PRIOR. To an average person, The fitness comes from actually playing the game often and being athletic.

"It has to do with the idea that women are still being objectified in society on very public platforms"

As if women don't do that to guys. "Look at those abs! . . . OMG, His biceps are so hot. . . His collar bone is smokin hot! " Or whatever girls look at. I've had a girl punch me in the side and hurt herself, She thought it was hot that my muscles were that strong. She didn't say, "You're so intelligent and charismatic! " or "Wow! Your personality is so amazing! " Instead, She saw me as a object - a man - and thought it was hot. It's not going to stop. Banning cheerleading will do nothing. What you actually want to do is take away our human nature.

"Is this really something that women should use as a badge on honor? "

Guys hit the gym and get buff! HOW DARE THEY BECOME OBJECTS OF SOCIETY! ?

"You say men get to be told to look stronger in their sport but women have to be told to look sexier, Right? That's the problem. "

What? You say "but" as if it's no problem that men have to go and change their appearance but suddenly it does become one when woman are told to do the same? Men become buffer to look athletic, More dominant, "manlier". Is that not looking at them as objects rather than a person with a deeper personality, Hopes, Dreams, Or whatever? Or is looking at someone as an object alright until it's sexually? Would you be opposed to women who have a kink that makes them want to be used?

"Lastly, You say it's "human nature". Sure. We can call it that. But we are constantly evolving Great Apes and I am certain we can come to a higher evolutionary ground and rise above. "

Rise above to what? Perfection? Stagnation? If something is "right" or "wrong", That's an opinion you made from the very brain that everyone else has. And not everyone agrees. So maybe, JUST MAYBE, Your opinion on "gender-roles" isn't something concrete that everyone can agree on and is only true within your own head. Therefore, Why are you trying to shove your opinions onto others?

Women THEMSELVES aren't against being cheerleaders - but you're going to come here and pretend like you're defending mankind's dignity or something?

"Turning them into young women who think their only value is turning someone on. "

No cheerleader thinks that - at least none that I've met. They see it as a fun sport that allows them to entertain people. Unless you're trying to say stage actors should also be banned. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if you wanted to ban porn.

"If Miss America stopped their bikini parade, So can the Dallas Cowboys. "

Yea, And when someone sees humanity as a threat to all life on Earth and says we should all commit suicide, You should totally do that because what everyone says to do should be the law.
Debate Round No. 2
bootsiecat

Pro

I just want to get one thing straight - when I say cheerleading should be banned, I believe it should be banned from the academic environment, Such as high schools and colleges. I do not believe it should be a recognized sport that girls are exposed to at such young ages and I do not think it is a sport that should be recognized in colleges because the main purpose of cheerleading is to perform in games where they are seen as "eye candy" like you said. We overly sexualize our youth and I am against it. Cheerleading in the academic environment is a perfect example of it.

Speaking to your religion example, Religion is not counterintuitive, It's exceptionally intuitive - traditionally and historically, It is what human beings use to place structure and order to society. Institutionally, Our government has banned it in many facets of the United States's culture. Since the Enlightenment, Most Western governments have separated their Church from their State because we no longer need religion to explain our world. Just like your religion example, Organizations such as cheerleading in the academic world should be phased out of our society or at least restructured and redefined as it perpetuates gender biases, And it marginally serves men. Men would benefit more if they went down the street to their nearest strip club and pay actual money to the strippers where these women can benefit financially from the transaction.

You point to the fact that gender differences are "natural" and related, However obtusely, To biological sex. However, What I argue is unnatural and wrong is utilizing those differences to create gendered norms to reinforce, From an exceptionally young age, Disparities in which one biological sex is elevated over the other societally. Differences in gendered roles in our society does not mean we should willingly accept gender biases. To use your anecdotal example, Some woman supposedly thought you had strong abs. She remarked on an aspect of your body that reflects physical fitness, Not on your face- an outcome of your genetic makeup. So, You are saying men are encouraged to achieve a level of fitness that will benefit their health, Longevity of life, And ability to actually complete physical tasks. Women, On the other hand, Are complimented on their bodies but also judged by their genetic inheritance, Which they can not alter without radical surgeries. In your own words, They are "eye-candy. " So, Regardless of a woman's health, Elevating her into the public eye as a cheerleader places her in a position where her face is also judged as well as her body and, By extension, Her perceived physical fitness. We could then devolve into a conversation about archetypal beauty in modern America, Where an emphasis on a woman's body shifts from healthy to unhealthy, Providing myriad more examples of the very gender biases of which I speak.

My point is, There is no need for our society to over sexualize girls because it feeds into the same gender biases that women in our culture (and many others) have fought hard to do away with. As you pointed out, Gender is culturally bound. So, Essentially, Your argument is, "because our culture to date has created flawed structures, We should blindly accept these structures as is. . . It is the 'norm. '" If you acknowledge that we, As people, Drive the culture, Then you should surely be aware that we can adapt and change it.
zapshe

Con

"I do not believe it should be a recognized sport. . . I do not believe it should be a recognized sport that girls are exposed to at such young ages and I do not think it is a sport that should be recognized in colleges because the main purpose of cheerleading is to perform in games where they are seen as "eye candy" like you said"

So your issue isn't that cheerleading happens, But that youths can participate in it? Let's get this out of the way, If you're too old, You're not likely to ever be scouted for cheerleading. Moreover, I've seen high school and college musicals/plays where the women have danced and often wore revealing/seductive clothing. Do you think these women are sitting there thinking that's all they're good for? That after the show they better start banging all the guys because that's their jobs as "objects"? Of course not, They enjoy doing what they're doing. Whether cheerleading or acting, The seductive aspect is there, But they like doing what they're doing - and they value themselves. If a girl is walking around in small shorts, She's aware people might look and sexualize her, But that doesn't mean she doesn't value herself or something.

In the end, The young are always exposed to this. There's a reason they want to become cheerleaders, They know what they're doing. No one is forcing them. In fact, I didn't even know the try-outs were happening, These people had to figure that out themselves, Actively searching for it to do it. They're eye-candy, But they're not strippers for God's sake. They have a routine that's usually pretty cool, And it doesn't hurt that it's mainly girls doing it, Usually a couple of buff guys too from the school I went to.

"Religion is not counterintuitive"

Anywhere religion dominates, Science takes a backseat. Most Americans don't accept evolution simply because of the Bible. The schools I went to don't even cover evolution in the curriculum. I learned a lot of things myself, But I found that most people I talk to are ignorant about what evolution even actually is and they don't believe it.

"It is what human beings use to place structure and order to society. "

No. Those are called laws. If the laws come from the religion, That's usually a society we all look at as an example of what not to do.

"cheerleading in the academic world should be phased out of our society or at least restructured and redefined as it perpetuates gender biases"

There's a point to cheerleading. You don't like it because you think it "perpetuates" gender biases. What gender biases? That women can be attractive? That men can look at women as objects of sex? These things are simply true. Thinking a woman is sexually attractive isn't a crime. Moreover, If you TALK with them (a prerequisite to sex 90% of the time), You learn more about them and realize they aren't just a walking body to bang. Otherwise, You simply look from afar and don't do anything. That happens all the time from the time people are teenagers.

"Men would benefit more if they went down the street to their nearest strip club and pay actual money to the strippers where these women can benefit financially from the transaction. "

What? Cheerleaders aren't strippers. The point of cheerleaders is to entertain, Build hype, And look good. The point of a stripper is to get you hot and bothered so you throw money at them.

"Disparities in which one biological sex is elevated over the other societally. "

Wow, Cheerleading does that somehow? Does cheerleading make you less socially inept? There can be guys cheerleading as well. Most garbage collectors are men, Is that also a disparity in which biological sex makes you lower in society?

You're trying to connect cheerleading with this idea that it somehow degrades the women and makes them objects of desire. I've seen cheerleaders plenty of times, The acts (at least where I'm from) have been pretty good. There was also another group which danced, They wore things less revealing yet more revealing if you know what I mean, And they didn't even dance good for the most part. Anyway, They do it because they like it. I would talk to them afterwards and they liked performing, It's a thrill. They don't go on stage to become objects for desire or whatever.

"Differences in gendered roles in our society does not mean we should willingly accept gender biases. "

Is it bias if it's true? That's like saying, "You're bias because you pick men for heavy lifting jobs! "

"Not on your face- an outcome of your genetic makeup. So, You are saying men are encouraged to achieve a level of fitness that will benefit their health, Longevity of life, And ability to actually complete physical tasks"

An interesting route to use, But wrong all the same. I'm fairly good looking, So it's not like she didn't already have reason to feel something. But tell me, Are men encouraged by women to do this to be fit, Benefit their health, And benefit their life expectancy? Or MAYBE, It's because women like having a strong man who's able with them? Someone who fits a stereotypical "perfect" guy?

A man and woman being "hot" in the end all depend on genes and how they've shaped their own bodies. What a woman considers hot is a man with muscles - meaning they're capable and are likely to survive. What a man considers hot is when a woman is fit and some other things. Big glutes = strength, Big breasts = milk, Fit body = agile and capable of surviving, Etc. . Things we find attractive in each other are usually traits that are favored by evolution. So an overweight woman told go and become more "sexy", Should go eat right and exercise.

In the end, I can justify it for women the same way you just did for men. What you have to realize is that we find traits attractive, Not for the benefit of the other person but because that's simply what WE like. Saying that it's fine when it happens to men because it makes them workout is simply double standards.

"Women, On the other hand, Are complimented on their bodies but also judged by their genetic inheritance, Which they can not alter without radical surgeries. "

So an ugly guy wouldn't have that same issue? Guys don't get judged by their looks that they can't control due to genes?

"beauty in modern America, Where an emphasis on a woman's body shifts from healthy to unhealthy"

When did this happen? I'm pretty sure what people consider "hot" or "sexy" today is still fit. Unless Americans are suddenly into fat women in all of a sudden.

"There is no need for our society to over sexualize girls because it feeds into the same gender biases that women in our culture (and many others) have fought hard to do away with. "

Women have fought hard to keep women from cheerleading? Only in America would someone actually be upset about women being sexualized. It happens all the time, Whether or not women dress fully or not, Whether or not cheerleaders are real or not. It happens, Will continue to happen, And cheerleaders are hookers or strippers, They're clothed and are there to entertain and be cute while doing it. They don't mind. Feminists can't stop a woman from doing something she wants to do.

"As you pointed out, Gender is culturally bound"

Never have I ever. That's YOUR claim, And I disagree highly. You said this before and I told you I can't facepalm enough. Gender has nothing to do with culture. There are PHYSICAL differences as well as MENTAL differences. In ANY culture, A man will make a woman into an object in his mind. This isn't culture, It's human nature.

"Your argument is, "because our culture to date has created flawed structures, We should blindly accept these structures as is. . . It is the 'norm. '" If you acknowledge that we, As people, Drive the culture, Then you should surely be aware that we can adapt and change it. "

Straw-man, I'm saying it's not a bad thing to begin with. YOU want society to adapt and change to something YOU THINK is bad, Not something people in general agree is bad.
Debate Round No. 3
bootsiecat

Pro

To the contrary, Most Americans actually believe that humans have evolved over time, So you are incorrect. And "women can be attractive" is not an example of gender bias. What a true gender bias is (and I will relate it to cheerleading) is continuing to allow our young girls to wear short skirts and stand on the sidelines cheering boys. That's the problem. And yes there are male cheerleaders, But that does not change the fact that, Typically, A cheerleading squad is overwhelmingly female and what they do in public is a traditional display that perpetuates the sexist narrative.

We are an evolving society - we adapt based on our physical and social environment and what is changing or in need of change at the time. We can't stay the same. I am only telling you what I believe - it is another point-of-view and every view is necessary and valuable to create thought and insight change.
zapshe

Con

"To the contrary, Most Americans actually believe that humans have evolved over time"

I don't care about "Most Americans". Let's say 60% of Americans believe that. 60% of 300million (rounded to the nearest hundred-million) would be 180 Million. That leaves 120 Million Americans not believing in evolution.

"Most Americans" isn't a good term when the number of people who don't believe is still in the hundreds of millions. I go to college, And many people I've talked to don't believe in evolution. So consider the average population's beliefs.

"What a true gender bias is (and I will relate it to cheerleading) is continuing to allow our young girls to wear short skirts and stand on the sidelines cheering boys. "

Funny, I've had cheerleaders stand on the sidelines cheering for girls too. The issue isn't that they're cheerleading anymore? But that they do it for males? The sports people watch are male dominated, Nothing to be done about that. But the cheerleaders are probably a nice change from the muscle bound guys on the field.

"But that does not change the fact that, Typically, A cheerleading squad is overwhelmingly female and what they do in public is a traditional display that perpetuates the sexist narrative. "

Sexist narrative? What sexist narrative would that be? That men are more dominate? Stronger? More athletic? Those are just facts. The fastest female runner for the 100 meter dash wouldn't even qualify to enter the Men's Olympics for the 100 meter dash. Either way, Men and women alike like to see cheerleaders, And the cheerleaders like what they're doing. Sure, They might be a little sexualized, But saying that should stop is like me saying sports in high school and college should be banned because it teaches them that they should be the general male stereotype of strong and athletic.

If you wanted to say that, "Well, There's nothing wrong with being strong and athletic! " Then you'll have to surrender the argument that you want cheerleaders to stop because of stereotypes and instead you want them to stop because you personally don't like what's happening.

"We are an evolving society - we adapt based on our physical and social environment and what is changing or in need of change at the time. We can't stay the same. "

Sure, But society evolves due to the nature of the world, Of life. Society doesn't evolve because someone thinks cheerleading is sexist.

"I am only telling you what I believe - it is another point-of-view and every view is necessary and valuable to create thought and insight change. "

I understand that, It's just that this argument of yours isn't strong enough to justify the claim. I can see what you mean, But your argument builds upon a false idea that cheerleading is something to be looked down on because women are being sexualized. Sure, They're on the edge, But they aren't thinking of themselves as tools for seduction or whatever, They see themselves as entertainers just like actors/stunt-people/the guys playing the sport.
Debate Round No. 4
bootsiecat

Pro

To wrap it up, There are many reasons I believe cheerleading should be banned but I am only covering one. For example, Cheerleading has been deemed the most dangerous sport to women because of the incredibly risky physical positions they put themselves in. While impressive, They are unnecessarily dangerous. But my point in this argument isn't so much the physical aspect of it. My argument is that the public does not see the actual sport side to cheerleading - they see them at football games. This is what shapes the public view and this is how cheerleaders shape the way they are viewed for the public. Cheering at football games is one of the pillars of cheerleading. Watching young girls with incredibly short skirts cheering on the main attraction - which is a group of boys - is a traditional practice that should be banned. If nothing else changes, This alone would be a fete of gigantic proportions.

Young girls (and boys! ) who don't even have fully-formed frontal lobes don't always use the best judgment when making decisions and it is the responsibility of their parents and of the adults in the education system to protect them. My whole argument is that I feel our youth should be protected from an organization that may perpetuate gender biases and should be encouraged to question archaic and traditional practices and be discouraged from blindly accepting our society as-is just because it's "tradition" or "how it's done".

Cheerleading can be restructured just like so many other aspects of our society that have been amended in our history. Cheerleading as-is simply reinforces the idea of male dominance and, Whether they are physically stronger or not, This idea has damaging effects on women and girls because the idea of gendered-base power correlates to sexist ideology. I believe we ought to check our systems, Organizations, And institutions and make sure we are protecting our youth and not recycling the same ideas over and over.
zapshe

Con

"Cheerleading has been deemed the most dangerous sport to women because of the incredibly risky physical positions they put themselves in. While impressive, They are unnecessarily dangerous. "

So would many sports, Stunts, Etc. . Or are they alright because men do it?

"Cheering at football games is one of the pillars of cheerleading. Watching young girls with incredibly short skirts cheering on the main attraction - which is a group of boys - is a traditional practice that should be banned. "

It's tradition I suppose. I mean, The same could be said for how it's the man who has to get on one knee and ask for the woman's hand in marriage. Is that bad?

"Young girls (and boys! ) who don't even have fully-formed frontal lobes don't always use the best judgment when making decisions and it is the responsibility of their parents and of the adults in the education system to protect them. "

They do, And they don't mind.

"My whole argument is that I feel our youth should be protected from an organization that may perpetuate gender biases and should be encouraged to question archaic and traditional practices and be discouraged from blindly accepting our society as-is just because it's "tradition" or "how it's done". "

The basis of this is that the youth should be "protected". The world exists. People die. People can't find clean water to drink. People rape. All these things happen, And if you want to "protect" the youth, What good is that doing other than not wanting them to go out into the world and figure things out? There are people with photos of their cheerleading days when they were younger, I promise they don't look back on it and think, "Wow! I was a tool! "

"Cheerleading can be restructured just like so many other aspects of our society that have been amended in our history. "

But why? There's no consensus among the people to stop it. Most people aren't against it, And certainly not the cheerleaders themselves. Again, It's not like people are cajoling young women to become cheerleaders, These are things they actually have to lookout for and try-out, Likely not getting accepted.

"Cheerleading as-is simply reinforces the idea of male dominance and, Whether they are physically stronger or not, This idea has damaging effects on women and girls because the idea of gendered-base power correlates to sexist ideology. "

So the truth hurts is what you're saying? Men are physically more dominant and sports-watchers out there for the most part watch MALE-PLAYED sports. As in, If I tell you I'm going to watch a sports game, You'd assume I'd watching men tackle each other rather than women.

The issue is that there ARE differences between men and women. I've seen women that could probably beat the crap out of a lot of men and have big muscles, But that's not the common. The world exists, And we shouldn't be shielding the youth from it.
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by zapshe 4 days ago
zapshe
Good job to you, Too.
Posted by bootsiecat 4 days ago
bootsiecat
Zapshe - Great debate. Thanks for being a part of it.
Posted by Brendo 1 week ago
Brendo
Looks like an interesting debate. I plan on voting when this debate is finished.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Brendo 6 days ago
Brendo
bootsiecatzapsheTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
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Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: This was very hard for me to judge. Both users made great arguments. Zapshe made some good rebuttals to a lot of arguments made by Bootsiecat. Therefore arguments to Zapshe. Spelling, grammar, and conduct equal throughout the debate.

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