The Instigator
ToasterMinistry
Con (against)
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The Contender
Eugenious
Pro (for)
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0 Points

Should teachers in America be armed with guns?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/7/2019 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 918 times Debate No: 120678
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

ToasterMinistry

Con

First round will be acceptance only. Failure to do so results in you must resigning the round. Opponent must also clarify position in first round. Debate will start in Round 2.
Eugenious

Pro

My position in this debate is that teachers should be armed with guns. If my opponent is ready, Let the debate commence!
Debate Round No. 1
ToasterMinistry

Con

Hi! I hope you are not a pro, As I am largely new to this debate site. If I am making any format mistakes or something, Please tell me! Also, Please no insulting the other person. I am new to the concept of debate as a whole, So being some insulting troll doesn't help anyone, So please don't. . . Anyways, Off to the debate.


One of the teachers-should-be-armed-with-guns argument goes something along the lines of this: "If someone plotting a school shooting knows there are armed teachers who will shoot back, They might decide against targeting a school at all. Should a person choose to go through with it, A gun-toting teacher may be able to stop them long before law enforcement arrives. "

Now, There are a few problems I see with that argument.


My first argument is a bit obvious, And it's how teachers already have so much responsibility. Teachers already have loads of responsibilities they have. Other than making assignments and homework for the many classes they have, They are in charge their own paperwork. From marking tests to making report cards to attendance to even attending various meetings, A teacher's schedule is pretty busy if you ask me. We don't need to add to that. Also, Who becomes the teacher to have the gun? There will be lots of infighting among teachers, Deteriorating relationships and making a bad environment. Many people might also not want to become teachers anymore, Thinking about all the risks. But even if it were that a teacher was chosen, For example, Maybe the gym teacher. Teachers are there for teaching, And are not supposed to be the ones to participate in combat. Who would want to be in the lines of fire? Nobody. The teacher might even chicken out, Basically making no point for armed teachers. Sure, They might have proper training and everything, But won't that give the teacher more of a violent authority over others, Students and teachers alike? What if the teacher has a grudge, And instead uses the weapon in a bad way? There are just so many risks that schools would need to take to have an armed teacher, Or several ones.


Not only do armed teachers hold a threat to others, But to himself as well. For example, Black people, As much as I hate to admit it, Are still discriminated. Most typically think they pose more of a threat than others. An example of this is Philando Castile. He was a school employee who was legally permitted to carry a gun and followed all possible safety measures. However, As Castile was driving somewhere, He was pulled over by the police, Who asked why he had a gun in his car. Castile told the police he was legally licensed and had followed all safety and legal measures. However, He was still fatally shot by the police. Not only this, But armed teachers might not even be able to stop such a school shooter! For example, In Las Vegas, A shooter shot 58 people in a matter of minutes. The worst thing was that there were armed guards who took all security measures. What would happen in a school setting, When children cry and run wild and are grouped together in their classrooms, With teachers that are barely armed? What would happen if the teachers were fatally shot in a gun exchange?

We can't even promise that teachers would be able to use a gun properly. For one, Police officers, Who were well trained, Regularly miss and/or shoot a wrong person. How can teachers be expected to hit the shooter properly, When the lives of themselves and the school are stressed on that one teacher?

This also makes teachers basically a magnet for trouble. Ideally, Shooters would take out the armed teacher first, And then proceed to whatever he/she wwants to do. This means that not only does the armed teacher have the stress of the lives of everyone in the school, But themselves as well. This puts the teachers in the front lines, When teachers are supposed to be in the back, Educating and being an example that children look up to.


The simple solution is to literally get a security guard or cop or military personnel to guard schools. These forces are supposed to be there for a reason. Yes, Maybe they might be as bad as hitting a target as a trained teacher would, But at least he is better suit for it. He knows that he might die, And he knows that the lives of others is on him. As a cop, All these stresses have been trained for and tested and tried to be ignored. They probably have better gear than teachers would, And since their sole job would be protecting the school, They won't be tired if a school shooter actually comes. Teachers however, Might be tired after hours in the school, And so protecting students would be harder.

I wait for Pro to respond.
Eugenious

Pro

Before I get into my arguments for the idea of arming teachers, I want to go over what you said in your last argument. First, You said that teachers already have to deal with a lot, And we shouldn't expect them to have to also deal with combat. Well, I would answer that with a scenario. If a shooter walks into a classroom and starts shooting, And there's no one to shoot back, What will happen? They'll all die. It's not about making teachers do combat, And it's not all about the teacher's safety. While that's part of it, The safety of the children, I believe, Should be our main focus in this debate. You also mentioned that teachers may not be qualified, Or trained enough to handle a firearm. But you then proceeded to say later that even though cops miss all the time when shooting, We should give them the responsibility. This statement kind of cancels out your previous argument. If it doesn't really matter if they can hit their target or not, It really doesn't matter who's the one shooting.

Next, I'm not really sure about what racial discrimination has to do with this debate. If you could explain this further, I would appreciate it.

Finally, Most of your examples/scenarios are conjecture. There are a lot of "what ifs? " in your argument. In this debate, We need to use real examples. If you have any examples of horrible things happening when we arm teachers, Please present them.

Now, For my arguments, Brief though they be.
I believe that our teachers should be trained to protect their students. If you ask any good teacher, They would answer that they would do anything to help their students in any way. If a teacher cares about his/her students, They will learn to defend them if they have to. Police cannot be at schools every day. It would diminish their numbers. While shootings are terrible, They are not exceedingly common. If the teachers are trained, They will already be on the scene, Ready to defend.

Thanks for starting this debate! I'm sure it will be fun.

back to you.
Debate Round No. 2
ToasterMinistry

Con

So, You say: "If a shooter walks into a classroom and starts shooting, And there's no one to shoot back, What will happen? They'll all die". The thing is though, How can someone just walk into a classroom with a gun? Schools still have security measures you know. In my school, All the doors and locked, Reinforced, And need a keycard in order to open. The only way someone gets in during the day is to go through the front door, Where the office is. Before said person proceeds to go further into the school, The office people ask the guy who he is looking for and why he's here. A shady guy with his hood on and a gun in his back pocket isn't going to make it through. Even if it somehow did happen, What would happen though, You might ask? Well, Imagine the sight of a shooter when he walks into a class. There would be the teacher standing in the front teaching. Obviously, A shooter would want to take out the teacher first because he or she is the one with the gun. On the other hand, The teacher is writing things on the board. Now imagine if you were the teacher, And your hand is all tired and your arguing with some kid in the front about math. If a shooter comes in, You would be dead before you could even pull out your gun and "protect" the students. Either way, Everyone would die. It is why we should focus more on trying to keep the a shooter outside the school, Or at least in that office area I talked about earlier.


RE: "If you ask any good teacher, They would answer that they would do anything to help their students in any way. If a teacher cares about his/her students, They will learn to defend them if they have to. "

Right. I agree with you that good teachers would say that they would do anything to help their students in any way. However, I'm not sure if they will in a real shootout situation. Teachers still have their own lives to go through, And so they will of course also care about themselves. The real question is whether they will risk their lives protecting some kids that they might not even really like. Like, Sure, Literally every teacher would probably say that they will go to any lengths to assist their students, But when it comes to life or death, They would probably chicken out. Just think of yourself. If you are getting paid for babysitting some stranger's kid and then in the middle of the night when nobody is home except you two a gang of bad people with guns just break in and ask for the baby. Even if you had a gun, Would you protect the baby and refuse to give it to them? You would probably not, And give the baby to the gang, Fearing of your own life. Also, Please tell us if you are arming all teachers, Or just some.
Eugenious

Pro

Before I get into my other arguments for this debate, I want to address something. I would DEFINITELY defend the kids I was babysitting to the death. I don't know if you're a Christian, But for me, I have a hope of Heaven, So death is nothing to fear for me. I would gladly fight for those kids.
Now, For the arguments.

First off, You said that the shooter wouldn't reach the classroom. Would you explain to me, Then, How these past school shootings have happened? I'm not saying that all of them were in the classroom, But quite a few were. Google "classroom school shooting. " Multiple cases show up. If the security was as good as you say it is, Then I'd say you might be right. But you're simply not correct in that statement. If that's the case in your school, That's great! I'm glad! But that isn't the case with most elementary schools, And most of the younger ages too. Most high schools don't even have this kind of security. And also, What would stop that shooter from killing the people from that office of yours and going up anyway? Your idea of the shooter being a shady figure with a hoodie, And all, Is not an absolute. That's a very cliche picture that is mostly unrealistic.

Next, What's this about a teacher's hand being tired? I've never seen a teacher write so fast on a chalkboard fast enough for long enough to be honestly tired. Plus, Adrenaline would kick in, And you would lose that tiredness, Even if that tiredness is possible, Which I don't believe it is.

You asked if I meant all teachers or just some. Well, If there are any mentally unstable or dangerous teachers, Which I doubt and hope is not the case, Then those teachers obviously should not be given guns. But other than that, Yep. All of them.

For my last refutation of what you said, I think that your view of teachers is rather sad. If you think that the majority of them would rather save their own lives than protect their students, The world is in a worse state than I thought. Plus, You made the statement that all of them would die anyway, So it wouldn't make any difference to arm teachers, But instead we should make it harder to get in in the first place. If they are all most likely going to die anyway, And arming teachers won't help in most cases, Then arming them is a good idea! Let me explain. If arming teachers would only help some of the time, Which is a statement that I actually disagree with, Then we should arm them to help in those "few" situations that it would help to have guns. Does that make sense? Based on what you said, Which I do disagree with, It still comes to my side of the argument. If arming teachers would help some of the time, To me, It's worth it to save those children in those situations. A single life saved is worth it.

Back to you!
Debate Round No. 3
ToasterMinistry

Con

Right, I'll give that kid-protecting babysitting point to you, Because I don't want to get into a religious debate, Which often ends up with either me winning and people hating me or something bad.


Right, So I search up "classroom school shooting" on Google search, And here are the first things that came up:

1. Teaching in the Age of School Shootings
2. Teachers who survived shootings at Columbine
3. Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting

I looked through like, The top 10 searches. Every single one of them did not report a classroom shootout.

Also, The hand writing thing, Right. . . My point was that by the time the teacher realized that a shooter barged in the door, He or she would be shot dead. Teachers are often the ones standing and teaching, Being the biggest and most important targets. In any case, Teachers who confronted or saw the shooters almost all died in every single school shooting case.


Now, Onto my points.

1. Teachers cannot replace officers. By arming teachers, We are setting up a playing field that is automatically uneven. A teacher armed with a handgun against some intruder whose is trying to murder people with an AR-15 rifle, As in the case of Stoneman Douglas, Is a losing fight. Teachers with inferior equipment, No back-up and limited training will never be as good as trained officer. Yes, Sometimes cops are as bad as teachers, But at least they have better equipment.

2. Teachers would obviously become the main targets. Many school mass shooters have some experience with their target school and will have prior knowledge of which teachers carry guns, Even if they are hidden and concealed, And will target these teachers in order to get rid of their main deterrent. This in turn will leave the students of these teachers without their main source of protection. Many school shootings are carried out with careful planning and detail, And students can easily assume which teachers are potentially armed.

3. Armed teachers are not a deterrent to suicidal mass shooters. The argument that gun-free zones necessitate more guns in order to deter the shooter is untrue. In literally all recent mass shootings, Including Sandy Hook and Columbine, The shooters were not afraid of death. They came prepared to die, Taking as many students with them as they could. Thinking that armed teachers would deter a shooter is ludicrous and untrue.

4. This goes back to my accident point about teachers and their stress.
Teachers will have increased responsibility and liability. Accidents happen more often than mass shootings. Who is going to take responsibility if a gun is to accidentally go off or is used by a student who somehow takes a teacher’s gun? If a teacher decides to hide and not fight, Is he liable? Would they be accused of not doing their job when they were in the line of danger? What if a teacher accidentally shoots a student? There are too many ways to “point fingers” if guns were to be given to teachers. This means that teachers would have more hesitation when trying to hit the shooter, Especially when kids could be near the shooter.

5. Schools already lack funding in the US. For example, Stoneman Douglas ran out of their paper supply for a few weeks recently. Instead of investing in weapons, Training and insurance, Why don’t we make sure classrooms have sufficient supplies and textbooks first? After all, The primary purpose of a school is to educate youth.

6. The safety of the students, During those crucial couple minutes that a mass shooting occurs, Is by far the most important thing. Arming educators puts teachers in a dilemma: secure and protect their students or attempt to pursue and stop the shooter. This is an impossible moral dilemma to put our teachers in.
Eugenious

Pro

First off, You said that your google search didn't come up with any classroom shootings. Either you didn't search the exact thing, Or you're not being honest. What you see in many of the cases mentioned, The shooter got to the students either in the classroom or close to it.

Next, You said that by the time that the teacher noticed the shooter, They would be dead. Once again, You have no actual evidence of this. Only speculation and conjecture.

You said that teachers cannot replace officers. That's obviously true! I am not disagreeing with that! When I say that we hold arm teachers, I'm not making a statement against law-enforcement or the need to have more officers at schools. You also spoke about them not being trained or supplied well. With the arming of teachers, There would obviously be also the training of teachers! So this point is rather weak.

You said that teachers would "obviously become the main targets. " They already are the main targets. Arming them will not change that.

You said that armed teachers deterring the shooter is "ludicrous and untrue. " Could you explain further how an armed, Trained person with a firearm could not in any way be any kind of deterrent to a shooter? I think that that is the ludicrous statement here.

For your 4th point, You said that there is a danger of accidents. Well, That's the case with any firearm. Police firearms have just as much chance as teachers' firearms of going off. And could you please provide the hard evidence of the stat "accidents happen more often than mass shootings? " I believe that this idea that firearm accidents happen more often is not true.

Your 5th point really is quite weak. Just because you can give one example of a classroom lacking certain things doesn't mean that all classrooms have that same problem.

To "secure and protect their students" is to defend them! By the very definition, This statement is true. And what's this about "pursuing the shooter? " All we're talking about here is whether or not teachers should be armed. Not about them chasing down the criminal.
Debate Round No. 4
ToasterMinistry

Con

ToasterMinistry forfeited this round.
Eugenious

Pro

To close, We have seen in this debate first that there is no real reason to keep guns out of teachers' possession. We have seen that guns are the most efficient way of deterring the criminal, And that the lives of the students are important, So therefore we must be willing to arm teachers to protect both teachers and students. All together, We see that there is no reason to not allow teachers to possess guns, And that there are plenty of reasons TO arm teachers.

This was a fun debate! Thank you to my opponent, And thank you to everyone who commented!
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
The fluffy cottontail also thinks that this kind of situation is a mental health issue. WRONG! 60 minutes did an article on this about 2 years ago. . . How can you identify the mentally ill if they don't know that they are mentally ill? And once you identify that this or that person is mentally ill, What do you do with those that have been deemed as dangerous and have done nothing wrong? What do you do, Especially for the teens who need help, But can't get it because there are no beds? The average bed is for one week and practically ---nobody--- can't get help within that amount of time? Obama did try. Trump only cares about himself and has yet, One time, Just once, In his presidency to admit he's wrong. He ALWAYS blames someone else for his failures. The mental health issue is a HUGE failure and nothing is being done about it.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
Yeah yeah let's arm our teachers with guns and scare, Literally scare our children to death, Knowing that they have their teachers who would stand mighty tall and proud who can squirt off a round or two, Probably, Well no, Almost assuredly miss the perpetrator who would shoot up the entire class anyway. Does the idiot Eugenious know one god damned thing about ANYTHING? Oh yeah I forgot, His god REALLY has the time, Effort and enthusiasm to make way for HIS guns of superhero protection in- right? In which unless armed, Well that gun would scare the crap out of the students so that can't happen, So where would the teacher put this device of a security blanket? I get it. . . Under a lock and a key so no student can get a hold of it and off himself/herself. And or go on a killing rampage themselves. So since the weapon of mass destruction is held under a lock and key at all times, No exceptions, One, Except when a maniac is running wild shooting the school up, An Eugenious didn't think about this, Obviously, Because he can't think, Reason, Rationalize, Use common sense nor use logic, But hey he's young and filled with soooooo much angst and pride, But not happiness, Sadly, Back to the story. . . A maniac is at the school shooting it up with who knows how many already dead and is on the way to shoot up his classroom. Now count the seconds his teacher has to get his keys out, Open the drawer where the gun is, Get it ready to point, Aim and shoot. Does Eugenious really think there's enough time for that to occur BEFORE the gunman has reached his classroom to shoot it up and then BANG he's dead? One more thing. . . Teachers ARE NOT paid to be trained assassins. Nor are they paid to train how to shoot a gun. Nor are they paid, Nor can they possibly react rationally if the unimaginable happens with their heads glued on straight. Donald Bunny Slippers Trump wants to put an armed guard in every school. So? Is every perpetrator THAT stupid to not know where he's going to be?
Posted by missmedic 3 years ago
missmedic
Yes your country needs more guns. Arm your teachers And the students too. With quick draw holsters. Or better still place automated sentry guns (America makes the best one) all around the schools and give students special wrist bands to get past the sensors, Unarmed of course. Those automated sentry guns work on aliens hordes, Zombie hordes, And of course your terrorist type hordes. But it won't happen, Why, Because you live in a society where guns are expensive and life is cheap.
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